Why does my DSD DAC sound flat???

bebop86 · « **on:** 21 Apr 2015, 01:48 pm »

Guys just got a used version 4 DSD DAC- Can someone run me through the steps on Jriver for set up- I tried both DSD with the opus 3 dsd DOWNLOAD and PCM over DOp with regular cd's- but the sound is very sterile and flat- I guess I am not setting up the jriver properly- thanks

HsvHeelFan · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Apr 2015, 02:00 pm »

There are lots of versions of JRiver. I'm running 16.

Which one are you running?

You may also want to add a screenshot of the Tools > Options > Output Format Page where you setup the specifics of how JRiver is configured.

HsvHeelFan

wisnon · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Apr 2015, 03:04 pm »

Bebop,

Didnt you have a B7 last year? How did that DSD compare to the L4 DSD Dac you now have?

bebop86 · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Apr 2015, 07:10 pm »

Winson- not sure as I have not really had a chance to play with the DSD DAC- I will say that my CF DAC to me was better than the Lampi B7 in my system-I am running Jriver 20 but I think I must have the settings wrong as there is zero air or feel to the music- any help would be appreciated-

ted_b · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Apr 2015, 07:42 pm »

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=121419.0

DoP is not for PCM/redbook, it is for DSD. It is simply a container for DSD when not using a raw DSD driver like a custom ASIO.

Phil A · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 Apr 2015, 07:47 pm »

Quote from: bebop86 on 21 Apr 2015, 01:48 pm

Guys just got a used version 4 DSD DAC- Can someone run me through the steps on Jriver for set up- I tried both DSD with the opus 3 dsd DOWNLOAD and PCM over DOp with regular cd's- but the sound is very sterile and flat- I guess I am not setting up the jriver properly- thanks

Note that JRiver set-up for sampling rates more than 192kHz has options. See what yours is set to.

Phil A · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Apr 2015, 07:50 pm »

It's under

Tools
Options
DSP and Output format

bebop86 · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 Apr 2015, 10:09 pm »

thanks- ted yes i want to play regular tracks converted to DSD-isnt that DSD over DOP???-thks

*Scotty* · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 Apr 2015, 11:15 pm »

Check your driver control panel and maximize your hardware buffer, be sure your are playing back from memory. Try setting your buffer in the player to 10 seconds.
Be sure to check to see that all tubes are not weak or worn out.
Play around with different footers under the DAC and the server.
Hope you get it sorted out.
Scotty

Phil A · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 Apr 2015, 11:48 pm »

Quote from: bebop86 on 21 Apr 2015, 10:09 pm

thanks- ted yes i want to play regular tracks converted to DSD-isnt that DSD over DOP???-thks

Does this help? http://bitperfectsound.blogspot.com/2014/01/dsd-is-coming.html

DoP is just a method for transmitting DSD. It has nothing to do with non-DSD files.

wisnon · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 Apr 2015, 07:38 am »

Quote from: bebop86 on 21 Apr 2015, 07:10 pm

Winson- not sure as I have not really had a chance to play with the DSD DAC- I will say that my CF DAC to me was better than the Lampi B7 in my system-I am running Jriver 20 but I think I must have the settings wrong as there is zero air or feel to the music- any help would be appreciated-

Bebop,

I was just asking about the comparison of the B7 DSD to the L4 DSD....just getting a baseline there, since you have owned both. CF dac is PCM only, so not relevant for the matter here.

Note that JRiver conversion of PCM to DSD is considered way inferior to HQ Player and even the free Foobar program (in terms of SQ), though JRiver is way more elegant to use than either. Playing JRiver native rate is fine though.

bmoura · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 Apr 2015, 09:53 am »

Quote from: wisnon on 22 Apr 2015, 07:38 am

JRiver is way more elegant to use than either. Playing JRiver native rate is fine though.

Very true. Now, if we could get the HQ Player upsampling filters to work with JRiver's interface....

wisnon · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 Apr 2015, 11:42 am »

Exactly!!!!!!

But nooooo, they say "bits are bits". Hahahahahahaha.

Gopher · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Apr 2015, 04:59 pm »

What you are describing is certainly not how our DSD dac should sound. I suspect its a software issue, but I will see Lukasz in person on Thursday and bounce this off him then.

Also was this a Gen 5 DSD DAC?

Best,

Fred

ted_b · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Apr 2015, 05:28 pm »

Fred, There is a whole host of possible missteps. It's why I sent him the link to my JRiver tutororials for DSD. Likely he will report back after that.

Bebp86, DoP is a vehicle for sending DSF and DFF files to a DAC that doesn't have custom ASIO drivers (wherever that DSD came from, whether originally DSD or converted PCM-to-DSD). It is simply a (now ubiquitous) clever workaround so DAC manufacturers didn't have to roll their own DSD drivers. The fact that you want JRiver to convert PCM to DSD is one thing. You need to set that in JRIver in the DSP window (also knowing your correct driver setting). Then he needs to pick the correct signal path for his DAC (i.e audio device driver) and he needs to set bitstream to DSD, etc. It's all in my tutorials.

Do the Lampis use DoP (I forget) or do they have custom ASIO drivers for direct raw DSD? If DoP do Lampi owners choose WASAPi mostly? Once I know that I could spell this out in screenshots if that helps.

ted_b · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 Apr 2015, 05:35 pm »

Quote from: bmoura on 22 Apr 2015, 09:53 am

Very true. Now, if we could get the HQ Player upsampling filters to work with JRiver's interface....

From Jussi, on a CA thread last weekend:
"OK, I'm looking into adding external control interface to the desktop version. Eventually it will also allow someone to write a control app too (if someone would like to). "

pmctexas · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 Apr 2015, 11:02 pm »

I'm following this as I'm a new Amber owner and I have no luck getting native DSD either using combo 384asio 1.03 driver with bitstreaming or DOP using wasapi usb driver 1.0.57 neither in JRiver or Foobar... I just get static. PCM plays fine.. I'm open to any help Thanks

shadowlight · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 Apr 2015, 04:46 am »

Quote from: pmctexas on 22 Apr 2015, 11:02 pm

I'm following this as I'm a new Amber owner and I have no luck getting native DSD either using combo 384asio 1.03 driver with bitstreaming or DOP using wasapi usb driver 1.0.57 neither in JRiver or Foobar... I just get static. PCM plays fine.. I'm open to any help Thanks

I am not sure how Amber is setup but on my L4.5 I have to press the red eye in the front to play DSD.

bmoura · « **Reply #18 on:** 23 Apr 2015, 08:07 am »

Quote from: ted_b on 22 Apr 2015, 05:28 pm

Do the Lampis use DoP (I forget) or do they have custom ASIO drivers for direct raw DSD? If DoP do Lampi owners choose WASAPi mostly? Once I know that I could spell this out in screenshots if that helps.

The Lampizator DSD DAC uses DoP. So JRiver will need to be setup so the Amanero USB driver is selected under "Tools, Options, Audio Device" and the "DSD Bitstream in DoP Format" box is selected under "Tools, Options, Audio Device, Device Settings".

wisnon · « **Reply #19 on:** 23 Apr 2015, 11:04 am »

Quote from: ted_b on 22 Apr 2015, 05:28 pm

Do the Lampis use DoP (I forget) or do they have custom ASIO drivers for direct raw DSD? If DoP do Lampi owners choose WASAPi mostly? Once I know that I could spell this out in screenshots if that helps.

DoP for sure, but JABS at CA says he can run it "native" in PC, over at CompAudiophile forum...not sure if ASIO or Wasapi (Amanero has PC drivers).