DO NOT WASTE ENERGY !

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 20316 times.

DaveC113

  • Industry Contributor
  • Posts: 4341
  • ZenWaveAudio.com
Re: DO NOT WASTE ENERGY !
« Reply #20 on: 27 May 2015, 05:54 pm »
Thanks, Dave. I just looked into it. The conversion kit I saw goes for $8800 installed. Recently I saw a Chevy Volt at a dealer in Broomfield for $18,000 with 36,000 miles. I could sell my Prius for about $10K and spend the other $8K on a car I would rather own.

Volt prices may come way down for the outgoing 2015 model which could get you a better deal on a used one as well:

http://www.engadget.com/2015/05/26/chevy-has-6000-unsold-2015-volts/

BMW was just showing off their new plug-in hybrid in Boulder over the weekend, it looks great but is about $100k  more than the Volt unfortunately....

http://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/i8

macrojack

  • Restricted
  • Posts: 3826
Re: DO NOT WASTE ENERGY !
« Reply #21 on: 27 May 2015, 06:03 pm »
Volt prices may come way down for the outgoing 2015 model which could get you a better deal on a used one as well:

http://www.engadget.com/2015/05/26/chevy-has-6000-unsold-2015-volts/

BMW was just showing off their new plug-in hybrid in Boulder over the weekend, it looks great but is about $100k  more than the Volt unfortunately....

http://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/i8

That's more than the Tesla. Why does BMW think that will compete? Just because of their name?

I can't do anything for awhile. Figuring I'll just wait it out for a couple of years and see if anything changes favorably. Right now, between the Prius and my Tacoma we use a whopping 90 gallons per year. As you can see, gas would need to triple in price to motivate a change in cars for us. Going to one car would mean more to our budget.

Ed_Zachary

This is not the forum for your drivel
« Reply #22 on: 27 May 2015, 10:24 pm »
Please post your off topic posts elsewhere. This is a forum for Odyssey Audio products, NOT blu rays, Class D amplifiers and kindergarten level pictures regarding your notions of how everyone should be living.

Thank you.

macrojack

  • Restricted
  • Posts: 3826
Re: This is not the forum for your drivel
« Reply #23 on: 27 May 2015, 10:34 pm »
Please post your off topic posts elsewhere. This is a forum for Odyssey Audio products, NOT blu rays, Class D amplifiers and kindergarten level pictures regarding your notions of how everyone should be living.

Thank you.

The thread has stayed on topic pretty well.

Apparently you feel violated in some way because the subject matter does not deal explicitly with Odyssey Audio products. The appropriateness of such a thread is for Klaus, as moderator, to determine. I don't spend much time here so perhaps I am unaware that Klaus has put you in charge. If that is not the case, I have to ask by what authority you choose to scold us.

The subject matter of this thread is of great importance to all of us whether we know it or not. I wish more people saw fit to join in. As for Klaus, I hope he feels that this topic is not misplaced in his circle.

Ed_Zachary

Re: DO NOT WASTE ENERGY !
« Reply #24 on: 27 May 2015, 10:36 pm »
Macro, my apologies if you felt my post was directed at you. It was not. The original poster has been cluttering up this forum with his drivel recently, I am not the first person to ask him to stop.

In any event, I have resolved this issue on my end.


JLM

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 10654
  • The elephant normally IS the room
Re: DO NOT WASTE ENERGY !
« Reply #25 on: 28 May 2015, 12:50 am »
Carbon foot prints include everything it takes to maintain your lifestyle.  For instance take out of season fruit: manufacturing of the fertilizer and pesticides used; equipment maintenance for planting, harvesting, and everything in between; refrigeration; retailing; waste disposal/recycling; the transportation involved each step of the way; and building/maintaining all the supporting infrastructures.  That's just one food, now add all the aspects of clothes, appliances, housing, other products/services we use everyday, along with our personal transportation.

It really gets depressing when you consider all this on a personal level and then the fact that the U.S. has 3% of the world's population but uses 25% of world's energy.

macrojack

  • Restricted
  • Posts: 3826
Re: DO NOT WASTE ENERGY !
« Reply #26 on: 28 May 2015, 01:02 am »
Carbon foot prints include everything it takes to maintain your lifestyle.  For instance take out of season fruit: manufacturing of the fertilizer and pesticides used; equipment maintenance for planting, harvesting, and everything in between; refrigeration; retailing; waste disposal/recycling; the transportation involved each step of the way; and building/maintaining all the supporting infrastructures.  That's just one food, now add all the aspects of clothes, appliances, housing, other products/services we use everyday, along with our personal transportation.

It really gets depressing when you consider all this on a personal level and then the fact that the U.S. has 3% of the world's population but uses 25% of world's energy.

All true.

DaveC113

  • Industry Contributor
  • Posts: 4341
  • ZenWaveAudio.com
Re: DO NOT WASTE ENERGY !
« Reply #27 on: 28 May 2015, 04:07 am »
Carbon foot prints include everything it takes to maintain your lifestyle.  For instance take out of season fruit: manufacturing of the fertilizer and pesticides used; equipment maintenance for planting, harvesting, and everything in between; refrigeration; retailing; waste disposal/recycling; the transportation involved each step of the way; and building/maintaining all the supporting infrastructures.  That's just one food, now add all the aspects of clothes, appliances, housing, other products/services we use everyday, along with our personal transportation.

It really gets depressing when you consider all this on a personal level and then the fact that the U.S. has 3% of the world's population but uses 25% of world's energy.

The relationship of food to fossil fuel is pretty interesting. From fertilizer to fuel to produce and transport food, the world's food supply is almost entirely dependent on fossil fuel. Without it much of the world's population would starve. The average piece of food is transported about 1500 miles...

http://www.cuesa.org/learn/how-far-does-your-food-travel-get-your-plate
 


TAULISA

Re: DO NOT WASTE ENERGY !
« Reply #28 on: 28 May 2015, 06:59 am »
My audio system as well as a lot of other items in the house are on 24/7. My pool pump runs 9-5. My grid-tied solar system produces approximately 900kwh/month and thus my electric bill and carbon footprint is ZERO!
  8)
:thumb:

Letitroll98

  • Volunteer
  • Posts: 5583
  • Too loud is just right
Re: DO NOT WASTE ENERGY !
« Reply #29 on: 28 May 2015, 10:05 am »
The relationship of food to fossil fuel is pretty interesting. From fertilizer to fuel to produce and transport food, the world's food supply is almost entirely dependent on fossil fuel. Without it much of the world's population would starve. The average piece of food is transported about 1500 miles...

http://www.cuesa.org/learn/how-far-does-your-food-travel-get-your-plate

Yes, and figures have been proposed that we have the ability to feed maybe 2 billion people without using oil.  Thus if we ran out of oil today, 5 billion would starve.  The figures are arbitrary of course, but it gives an idea of the scale we would be dealing with without petroleum.  Running out of gas for our cars will be the least of the problems.

FullRangeMan

  • Volunteer
  • Posts: 19849
  • To whom more was given more will be required.
    • Never go to a psychiatrist, adopt a straycat or dog. On the street they live only two years average.
Re: DO NOT WASTE ENERGY !
« Reply #30 on: 28 May 2015, 10:38 am »
I already doing my part, I dont whatch TV afew years and I dont have a TV set.
As result I fell much better mentally and emotionally, better reasoning too.

RDavidson

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2863
Re: DO NOT WASTE ENERGY !
« Reply #31 on: 28 May 2015, 02:54 pm »
My audio system as well as a lot of other items in the house are on 24/7. My pool pump runs 9-5. My grid-tied solar system produces approximately 900kwh/month and thus my electric bill and carbon footprint is ZERO!
  8)

Pretty positive your carbon footprint isn't zero. A carbon footprint is historically defined as "the total sets of greenhouse gas emissions caused by an organization, event, product or person." One's carbon footprint includes "direct" emissions from one's car (for example) and "indirect" emissions from goods bought/obtained/used where production processes (including vehicular transport) are included.

That's awesome you have solar panels, but the production and transport of those panels don't have a carbon footprint of zero. I'm sure most of your daily household items don't have a carbon footprint of zero. Your house certainly doesn't have a carbon footprint of zero. Your audio system doesn't have a carbon footprint of zero. I think the only people who truly qualify as having a carbon footprint of zero are (primarily tribal) people who still live in their indigenous lands, off the grid, unchanged by modern civilization ; Producing their food, clothing, shelter, way of life, themselves with virtually no impact on the environment any greater than that of earth's other creatures.

Anyway.....Just setting the record straight. If you live in the modern world, you simply don't have a carbon footprint of zero.....but, you can work toward lowering your carbon footprint, which anyone reading this message can do just by being more conscious of it and making even small lifestyle changes.

jriggy

Re: DO NOT WASTE ENERGY !
« Reply #32 on: 28 May 2015, 03:39 pm »
^ Correct.

Look in your trash can at the end of a week. That can show you part of your carbon footprint. Food packaging? Processed food wrappers is a big one, too.

macrojack

  • Restricted
  • Posts: 3826
Re: DO NOT WASTE ENERGY !
« Reply #33 on: 28 May 2015, 05:09 pm »
Rdavidson, jriggy - Your points are valid but, in this context, petty.

While the solar array on my roof does not render a zero carbon footprint in absolute terms, it surpasses standard practice in that regard by an enormous margin. For instance, the power you receive at your house is the remaining 20% after fully 80% has been lost to transmission. Just imagine if the tanker truck that delivered your petrol used 80 gallons to deliver 20 gallons to your fuel tank. That's the corollary. It means that for every 100 units of pollution your power plant generates, 80 units may as well have not been produced because it was completely wasted. My panels deliver approximately 99% of what they generate to my meter causing no pollution. Far more efficient and much cleaner. And to the point so often trotted out about the carbon footprint required to produce the solar panels I say so what! The panels only needed to be produced once and will function as they should for 25-30 years. Amortize the production liability of the panels over that duration, and then compare to 25-30 years of 20% efficient power plant production.
The numbers are embarrassing.
Localized production of electricity is clearly the most advantageous approach. And we'll do it despite the misinformation campaigns and legislative hurdles that are certain to continue until big oil falls away or succeeds in co-opting the solar industry.

RDavidson

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2863
Re: DO NOT WASTE ENERGY !
« Reply #34 on: 28 May 2015, 05:42 pm »
Macrojack, facts aren't petty. Facts are facts.

I was just "clearing the air" regarding the misuse of the term "zero carbon footprint." It gets thrown around incorrectly and I can see where people can be marketed this term incorrectly. Then we end up with large numbers of people who ignorantly think they have a zero carbon footprint without really understanding the term. I think that's a problem.

As I stated, anyone living in the modern world can only reduce their carbon footprint. Solar panels obviously help us work toward reductions. Reduction = good. I wasn't bashing solar panels. I was merely saying that just because one has solar panels and isn't using electricity from the grid, does not make one have a zero carbon footprint. Because a zero carbon footprint is really an unattainable ideal for those in the modern world, there's still lots of room (beyond installation of solar panels) to be conscious of in order to perhaps get closer to that ideal.

DaveC113

  • Industry Contributor
  • Posts: 4341
  • ZenWaveAudio.com
Re: DO NOT WASTE ENERGY !
« Reply #35 on: 28 May 2015, 05:46 pm »
Electricity transmission/distribution losses are just over 5% or so, but the total energy contained in fossil fuels vs the energy in the electricity you get is about a 75% loss. This is why heating with electricity should be avoided, if you burn fossil fuels in your home you get nearly 100% of the energy back as heat.

Hopefully we will continue to make advances in renewable energy as well as storage methods...

Tyson

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 11087
  • Audio - It's all a big fake.
Re: DO NOT WASTE ENERGY !
« Reply #36 on: 28 May 2015, 05:49 pm »
Solar panels, plus an electric car and re-usable bags/packaging, and a focus on fresh (not boxed/processed) food that's been locally grown, in season, seems to go a long way toward lowering your overall footprint.  These are all things I do or plan on doing in the next few years as budget allows.  Are there any other "big" areas I'm missing that I can reduce my footprint?

DaveC113

  • Industry Contributor
  • Posts: 4341
  • ZenWaveAudio.com
Re: DO NOT WASTE ENERGY !
« Reply #37 on: 28 May 2015, 06:40 pm »
Consuming less stuff and being aware of the consequences of our financial decisions is important imo. We are programmed to be good consumers and spend all we make on luxury items, being aware of how happy these decisions makes us is important for both the planet and our own financial well being.

RDavidson

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2863
Re: DO NOT WASTE ENERGY !
« Reply #38 on: 28 May 2015, 06:51 pm »
Tyson, I think those are the "big" areas. Other than overall electricity and water reduction, I think you're doing well. Recycling and composting are also good ways to reduce waste. Being creative with reuse of things is good and can be fun for those who have the time.

I read an article on FastCompany today where there's a startup in Alaska using salmon skin (normally thrown away) for things like wallets. The skins are naturally water repellent too. They're also looking to make other things like shoes. Not only is this a cool use of waste, if the outfit takes off, it could create more jobs as well as more income for fishermen. I believe they have a Kickstarter campaign currently. I love reading about things like this, where ordinary people are solving problems in creative ways.

harley52

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 318
Re: DO NOT WASTE ENERGY !
« Reply #39 on: 28 May 2015, 06:56 pm »
 Me thinks, yikes that's cause for pause, many posting on this thread are on the left coast. :P :thumb:
I think, as most people think that solar is a great idea, but they don't care for what you go through to have solar panels and their looks, reliability and cost. It's expensive for the average household. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but there are many utility companies that aren't set up to deal with the buy back of unused electric from your system. Look at all the solar companies who are involved in the business that have gone broke even with govt. subsidies.
As for oil companies, most are deeply involved in alternative energy. If they don't they will one day in the not too distant future being out of business. There was a Texas billionaire, who made his money in the oil industry who about 2-3 yrs. ago spent over a billion $ of his own money to build wind farms from Texas up into the Dokotas, the plains states. Unfortunately he wasn't able to get enough utility companies to invest in grids to get the wind energy hooked into the  electrical grids to make use of the wind energy. I just had the name come to me, Boone Pickins was the billionaire. My point is that there are companies that want to get the alternative energy industry going but,  most people aren't ready to demand to the energy sector to get it going in a big way I feel.
I read the CUESA article and have to say they cherry picked the most extreme instances to make their case. For many yrs. I'd say at least  40 yrs. people have been getting  a large portion of their eats from local/regional markets/growers. I don't live in Texas but, their are many roads that are called F/M (farm to market) roads. They've been called such for a long time. An F/M road is a road that the state would normally not allow big trucks to travel on due to weight restrictions. Most of these f/m roads ate only two lanes and have a weight restriction altered/raised to apprx. 56,000 lbs.
To me, it makes no sense for the U.S. and Canada to knock ourselves out and be poorer in the immediate future to place large restrictions on carbon emissions as the world keeps on doing what it's been doing since the industrial age. Not only that, but the cattle on this planet are the largest contributor to nasty emissions and that would have to be dealt with imo, to see significant reduction in green house gases first.
The electric Chevy Volt has been poorly marketed, too pricey and from what I've read/seen too unreliable. When they first came out they were priced over $40k. Yes, the price is dropping as most new innovations do but, that car shouldn't have been brought to market until the price was in the mid $30k's to buy. It was a darn joke at the price they first wanted for them. As we exchange ideas/thoughts on the matter, Honda, I don't drive one, is producing cars in limited quanities that run on natural gas. That's probably gonna be the way to go ultimately. Eighteen wheelers are in prototype running on natural gas. I don't see a big hurry to change out the freight transportation system as this is really expensive and it is going to raise the prices of all transporting of goods. Estimates I last read was apprx. 10% rise in grocery prices. And we all know how much people are going to complain when food prices rise that much in a short amount of time.
Well my fingers and brain are tired now and a storm is moving in so, I'll leave while I still can w/o negative consequences.