[Sound]

Question-- Is there a way to determine what size speaker would best fit a room?  My room is 15 x 17 x 8 in a carpeted basement.  Sound of room is neutral.

Thanks

[markC]

Many variables here. What are you driving them with, what levels do you listen at, do you have the space for full range floor standers, will you be using a sub...etc...

[Sound]

Yes yes, obviously I am new at this.  Ok here are more details:


What are you driving them with, ---  Don't have anything yet. I am starting from scratch.  Most likely odyssey stratos mono's.

what levels do you listen at,---  Medum sound. Probably low at night due to family upstairs. But really want a great soundstage, good detail and balance.  Hate top heavy or bottom heavy music.  I listen to jazz, classical, piano, wide variety of band, U2, John Mayer, REM but no hard rock no rap etc.  

do you have the space for full range floor standers, -- well, that's kind of what I am asking advice on .  Room is 15x 17 x8  It is a dedicated sound/movie room so as far as furniture positioning goes, yes I would easily have room.

will you be using a sub...etc...-- don't know, depends on if I get a two way or three way speaker with bass.  I would imagine yes if it is a two way.  I would use the sub for movies.  If the speaker is three way, most likely not.  Hence I would be willing to take the $ I would spend for a sub and add it to the speaker price.  Looking at around 3K for speakers.

I don't have a sound source yet either.  I really am begining from ground up begining with the room.  What I am hoping to do is not make multiple perchases to find the "right fit and sound" for the system.

[Carlman]

Many rooms at dealers I've been to are about the size of your room.  I think you'll have a lot to choose from... because just about anything will fit in your room.

I've had a variety of speakers in different sized rooms over the years and I've found it's only when you get down to the 12x13 or so size rooms where it becomes difficult to find the right size speakers.

If it were me in that sized room I'd consider small-ish floorstanders or good-sized monitors.  I really like my speakers and would recommend them highly but that's what most people will recommend.  'Buy what I have, it's the best!'

You will really need to go hear some speakers to find what's right for your ear.  If you're sold on the Odyssey, I'd buy them and see if you can get some demo speakers from local dealers.  Get some big ones and small ones... see what you like best.  You may be surprised at what you end up with.

-C

[PhilNYC]

If there are certain speaker brands that you are interested in, you could contact them (or their dealers) and ask them which models would work for a room that size.  Most manufacturers I've spoken with usually have a pretty good idea of the square footage of a room that each model works well in...

[Sound]

Correction and more specifics.

Question:  Do size of speakers = better sound stage, deeper fuller sound particularly in midrange/bass?

I have listened to B &W and this seems to be the case- but it may be the way they have arranged their line up to entice the customer to spend more $$$.  Is there a speaker out there with deep sound which is not huge?

The  listening room is 15 ft wide and split dimensions in the back wall.  So  from front wall to back one side is 19.5 ft long and the other is 17.2 ft long.  There are double doors which close so room has no bass suck out.

I have been reading about room "pressure" and standing sound waves. The walls are dry wall but I have some highly texturized paint on the walls and will be putting up crown modeling around the edges of the wall/ceiling to help eliminate right angles . Corners I will deal with once speakers arrive.

[doug s.]

get a pair of proac tablette 8 reference signatures & a pair of vmps smaller subs w/megawoofers.  use a tube amp on the proacs, a s/s amp on the subs, & cross 'em over w/an outboard active x-over or one of the digital x-over/eq's like a deqx, tact, or pro-audio unit like a behringer, dbx driverack, etc...

ymmv,

doug s.

[ctviggen]

You'll always pressurize a room and create standing waves.  A larger speaker can just do it a little easier, especially because larger generally means the lower in frequency the speaker can go.

[markC]

Sound, I'll use my room and my set-up as an example for you. Room is 12'x21'x7'-8"; not ideal, but it's a dedicated 2 channel listening room with 4 bass traps and 144 square ft. of foam on the walls-almost all @ the live end or speaker end of the room. The speaks are set up along the short or 12' wall about 5' out from the front wall. The speaks are Soliloquy 5.3's, in which I have tweaked the x-overs. I drive them with 300 watt tube hybrid mono blocks and can achieve an average output of just over 100 db b4 the 5 1/4" drivers start to bottom. I also have a pair of cheap-ass 8" plate amp subs which are crossed @ 40 hz just to fill in the last half octave @ the bottom end. I run the subs from the second pair of outputs from my tube preamp. So, you can achieve ear damaging spl's from a small pair of floor standers and modest subs if you feed them good clean power. The Oddysey's will do this, I know, because b4 the hybrids, an Odyssey dual mono resided in my rack.

[Sound]

Markc-- Doug s,

Here is the thing-- why choose a two way and then a sub?  I would then have to perchase at least one other amp to run the subs or get a sub with an amp.  What is the benifit of this instead of just taking the $$ for the sub and additional amp and put it into the main speaker and get one that will give you a good bottom end without need for the other stuff.  I would assume a bottom end which is ballanced in tone and time with the mid and treble because it is built into the speaker?

Also, Doug S.  I appriciate the response but dude-- it's a newbee circle-- you lost me with all the:

"proacs, a s/s amp on the subs, & cross 'em over w/an outboard active x-over or one of the digital x-over/eq's like a deqx, tact, or pro-audio unit like a behringer, dbx driverack, etc... "

Thanks

[Carlman]

I still say you need to go hear some speakers... at least narrow some choices down by auditioning at a local shop... and then try them in your home.  I've been surprised at how much good bass I can get out of some small speaker, not out of others, and then with how odd bass can sound in various floorstanders.

My favorite speaker in a 14' deep by 20' wide room with a reasonable amount of sound absorption was a pair of Revel F30's.  However, when I moved to a lively, open-air room the Revel's sounded overly harsh in the highs and midrange... and the bass that was so perfect was now a little strange... they went from being a near-perfect sound to just OK by changing to a new house.  I decided to move into an 11x14' room and the Revel's were just too big and overloaded that room.  Plus, I could hear the separate drivers a little bit and that bothered me.

I would highly recommend trying to hear some Usher 6311's if you can.  Also try to hear other brands just to see what flavors you like.  

After you find a speaker with the sound you like.... and after you have the Odyssey gear, I would then recommend a little warmth in the source and preamp.  Consider some tubed gear.  I would highly recommend Eastern Electric for the cd player and preamp.

-C

[Sound]

Thanks Carlman,

Let me tell you the speakers I have listened to thus far:

B&W nautilus line; 700 series; 600 series.  Liked Nautilus line.  Not impressed with 700's.  Sound was too mechanical, bass too shallow.  Loved the Nautilus line, particularly 802.  Deep, open, emotionally moving. Perhapse a bit too detailed but still very very nice. (also out of my $$ line)

Theil:  2.6?  I think.  Loved the sound stage and openness of the speaker.  Suprised at the bass as it was a two way.

Paridgm-  Ok but didn't truely get out of the speaker box.  I can't stand being able to track the sound back to the source.  I want the speakers to disapear.

Variety of Electrostatic speakers.  Sound nice, clean fast but to me there is no Guts, no movement, no hit me in the chest kind of vibration that tells me the musicians are alive and sending their soul through their instuments.

I have heard good things about Usher 6311, I wonder if the bigger speaker in the 6000 line would work in my room instead?

 Lorelei also-heard good things about them also.

[doug s.]

Markc-- Doug s,

Here is the thing-- why choose a two way and then a sub?  I would then have to perchase at least one other amp to run the subs or get a sub with an amp.  What is the benifit of this instead of just taking the $$ for the sub and additional amp and put it into the main speaker and get one that will give you a good bottom end without need for the other stuff.  I would assume a bottom end which is ballanced in tone and time with the mid and treble because it is built into the speaker?

Also, Doug S. I appriciate the response but dude-- it's a newbee circle-- you lost me with all the:

"proacs, a s/s amp on the subs, & cross 'em over w/an outboard active x-over or one of the digital x-over/eq's like a deqx, tact, or pro-audio unit like a behringer, dbx driverack, etc... "

imo, *regardless* of what your "monitor" is, you will get better sonics w/subwoofers and an active outboard crossover, used to split the signal between the monitors & the subwoofer.  you use one (tubed, imo) amp for the monitors, and a second (solid-state, in *everyone's* opinion) amp for the subs.  (which is what i was talking about w/the stuff where i "lost" you...   the latest digital crossovers i mentioned allow you to actually perform equalization of the frequency response.)

when i first got a dedicated subwoofer set-up, my full-range floorstanding "monitors" were thiel 3.5's, which are -2db at 20hz.  these are true full-range speakers.  i still got better bass with the subwoofer set-up.  and, the thiels also sounded better, cuz i crossed them at 70hz, which means their woofers no longer had to play the last octaves, & were now less distorted above those frequencies.  if you look at many no-holds-barred assaults at state-of-the-art speaker systems, the mfr's include subwoofer sections as part of the package.  i believe subwoofers will help *any* speaker system where they aren't awreddy included as part of the package by the mfr, regardless of room size.

in your case, in a smaller room, true full-range floorstanders will be all that more difficult to place, due to standing wave problems - best location for bass will likely not be best location for everything else.  having separate subwoofers allows you some flexibility regarding this - the subs can be moved a bit away from the monitors.

good luck,

doug s.

[Sound]

Thanks Doug S.

I would like to say I understand the cross overs but I don't yet.  Will go do some hunting on the internet to figure this out.  Thanks for the advice though.  It helps greatly.  

So-- In summary I am hearing that I should/could go with a smaller speaker- two way or monitor and then pull a sub or two into the mix and this will infact improve the sound over the traditional three way.  

Any suggestions then on a good sub which will not break the bank.  I am also now planning to build some bass traps in the room at the corners with bookshelves with openings for bass waves and put fiberglass filler behind them.

[Sound]

Sorry Doug S.  Just reviewed thread and saw your recommendations for subs:

get a pair of proac tablette 8 reference signatures & a pair of vmps smaller subs w/megawoofers.

Anyone else with recommendations, bring them on.

[TG]

Anyone else with recommendations, bring them on.

Hi Sound, another range of active subs to recommend is REL.  They have the ability to team very well with a wide range of high quality main speakers and can work magic with smaller monitors, supplementing both the bass and also, surprisingly,  the mid range.

After many years and many models of larger floorstanders I found the sound I was looking for with Sonus Faber Concerto Home monitors http://www.sonusfaber.com/ and a REL Storm III active sub http://rel.net/.  For 2 channel audio the REL's signal is taken from the speaker outlets on the amp, and for HT a low level input from the sub-out connection on the preamp is used.  The connections can be made simultaneously and selected via the sub's controls.

The Sonus Fabers like a high current power amp, but you don't have to spend a fortune.  I'm using a 70W/channel Rotel RB-1050 amp with a Rotel RC-1070 preamp.