[Tone Depth]

I bought a new AVA 600R amplifier a few months ago, am loving it, and have been indulging myself by reading reviews about it, but questions have arisen in my mind.

Does anyone know if professional reviewers have neutral sounding systems? I can envision them tweaking their reference systems to have a neutral or pleasing sound to them, but if the reference system is composed of components which aren't neutral sounding by themselves, how can they make a judgement on how a component being reviewed affects the sound?

For example review of an amplifier:  If their reference amplifier is not neutral sounding, maybe it sounds a little bright on the high end, but their reference system has been tweaked to be neutral sounding overall, and they put the review amplifier in the system, how can their comments be anything except relative to their reference amplifier, and yet they present them as absolute? 

I'd love to hear comments from anyone whom has reviewed a component, or has thought about the review process. Perhaps Frank could also chime in with his comments, from a manufacturer's perspective.

[JLM]

I've never read a perfectly done professional review.  Not one professional reviewer has a really good room and there is no such thing as the perfect speaker.  I appreciate Stereophile including test results, but when it comes to the subjective portions (which most are nothing but) all we can do is compare their rooms/systems to ours, try to hear what they hear from the same recordings, and read their prior reviews to try to connect with as much gear as possible. 

The best reviews come from the recording industry, the true professionals.  They seem less biased, and more to the point.  They are working with their gear, not being entertained by it.  So they're after realistic high fidelity, not ear candy in whatever individual flavor is desired.

[jarcher]

 At the end of the day there really isn't any "neutrality" reference.  Not only are components and systems different,  rooms are different and even people's hearing ability is different.

I think with audio  equipment reviews it's the same as with any reviews: it's a subjective  art and you have to have an idea of the preferences and biases of the reviewer.  If you can find one that has the same tastes as you do and they are reviewing gear that you're interested in, that would perhaps be the ideal. But even if you know that the reviewer tends to favor a certain kind of sound that you don't, it still gives you some basis.  For example, I know of one reviewer who likes a very bright and analytical sound. So if he says something sounds bright or analytical, I would know that it is probably going to be excruciating for me!  Just as if you know that a reviewer likes loud and dumb movies and he proclaims one particularly loud and dumb, well then you know it's probably super loud and dumb!

[Johnny2Bad]

You need to get to know reviewers and their likes and dislikes, and judge the reviews you read based on that. A review from a stranger is interesting, but no more.

It all comes down to listening to gear. If you can hear something a reviewer has reviewed, and compare your assessment to his, you will learn something about whether his opinions are likely to jive with your own. It is just as useful to know his opinions won't jive with your own; the two work in tandem to steer you to gear you are likely to enjoy.

The system the reviewer uses is irrelevant; for one they are rarely static, and for another, you won't be owning a duplicate in any case. A proper review will involve changing just one component, with maybe some judicious tweaking to show the Device Under Test (DUT) in it's best light. It's unrealistic to expect you will learn everything from a review regardless of how well you know the reviewer; you still need to do your own due diligence.

It is absolutely true that a system is just that ... no one component stands alone, and the way two interact is critical to system building.

This is the most difficult part of creating a home HiFi, which is why a good Bricks-And-Mortar Dealer is a valuable asset and why they will loan gear to people to try in their own systems. You can save money if you know as much as your dealer does and are as familiar with a similar range of products and their idiosyncrasies, but few do.

Mistakes cost much more than any premium a dealer may earn over someone seeking out bargains and ending up with a rack of nice gear that hates each other.

[Stercom]

Great topic! I think there is an absolute neutral reference and its live un-amplified music. My wife is a professional musician. And we have many friends who are professional musicians that perform in symphonies, operas, teach at the university level, compose etc. They all love hearing my system! They will tell me if a violin doesn't sound right, for instance. One night a musician friend was listening to my analog rig and thought it sounded off pitch......low and behold the turntable speed needed to be adjusted! They have trained themselves to hear critically. They have VERY good listening skills and they, obviously, know what live music is supposed to sound like. So if you are into following the advice of a reviewer I'd suggest they also be a musician!

[witchdoctor]

I bought a new AVA 600R amplifier a few months ago, am loving it, and have been indulging myself by reading reviews about it, but questions have arisen in my mind.

Does anyone know if professional reviewers have neutral sounding systems? I can envision them tweaking their reference systems to have a neutral or pleasing sound to them, but if the reference system is composed of components which aren't neutral sounding by themselves, how can they make a judgement on how a component being reviewed affects the sound?

For example review of an amplifier:  If their reference amplifier is not neutral sounding, maybe it sounds a little bright on the high end, but their reference system has been tweaked to be neutral sounding overall, and they put the review amplifier in the system, how can their comments be anything except relative to their reference amplifier, and yet they present them as absolute? 

I'd love to hear comments from anyone whom has reviewed a component, or has thought about the review process. Perhaps Frank could also chime in with his comments, from a manufacturer's perspective.

Equipment reviews are like movie reviews. You just need to find a reviewer with your taste. For my taste the guys at Audioholics are the worst and Doug Schneider at soundstage is the best.

[avahifi]

I use several different kinds of speakers in listening evaluations.

Philharmonic Threes (ribbon tweeter, planar midrange, transmission line woofer)

Janszen Z2.1a electrostatic speakers

Nate's amazing T5 Bookshelf speakers (cone woofer - mid, soft dome tweeter)

Salk HT2 TL speakers

All are different , all are excelent.

We better be able to get the best out of all with our electronics to be sure they will be appreciated by you too, no matter what speakers you have.

Frank

[Zero]

I confess that I may be an odd duck when it comes to this subject.

Knowing a reviewers bias or list of reference gear is about as useful to me as knowing what they ate for breakfast last Thursday.  The only thing that I really care about is whether or not the reviewer is capable of checking off the following three things: 

1) Demonstrating genuine knowledge of the subject.  OK.  This isn't completely necessary for me to take a review seriously, but it's certainly refreshing when the person reviewing the product actually knows what the hell they're talking about.  Bonus points to those who can highlight a products cool or unique features all the while using real-world language!


2) The ability to truly understand the performance envelope of any given product.  I don't care whether you like it warm or cold or somewhere in-between.  What I want is to be given a clear, accurate description of the products sonic profile.  As a bonus, it's also good to know how easy (or difficult) the product is to accommodate, what it does that's worth celebrating (if anything at all), and be hipped to its shortcomings. 


3)  Lastly and perhaps most importantly -  By the time I'm done reading or watching a review, I want to feel like I know EXACTLY what the product is about.  A good review will help put the right product into the right persons hands. 

And here's the kicker - you don't need to have a perfect room or the perfect collection of audiophile-approved gear to do what I just mentioned!  All you need is a decent amount of experience, good intentions, a bit of talent, and a half-way decent ear.

[dflee]

I think the word neutral is used too often and should be replaced with natural.
I know what the natural sound of many instruments are to judge equipment I'm
listening to but always felt when hearing something referred to as neutral to be
detailed with no depth or feel. Kinda like a highly detailed cardboard cutout.

Don

[Freo-1]

I think the word neutral is used too often and should be replaced with natural.
I know what the natural sound of many instruments are to judge equipment I'm
listening to but always felt when hearing something referred to as neutral to be
detailed with no depth or feel. Kinda like a highly detailed cardboard cutout.

Don

Concur with the thought of natural vs. neutral.  Think about attending a symphony.  The sonic presentation up close to the orchestra sounds quite different to sitting in center, and different again in the rear.  All can sound natural, and yet, the systems can tend to favor one type of reproduction over another.  So, what is neutral?  The three systems can all sound natural, and yet provide a different response to provide an illusion of listening from different seat in the hall.

[Russell Dawkins]

Concur with the thought of natural vs. neutral.  Think about attending a symphony.  The sonic presentation up close to the orchestra sounds quite different to sitting in center, and different again in the rear.  All can sound natural, and yet, the systems can tend to favor one type of reproduction over another.  So, what is neutral?  The three systems can all sound natural, and yet provide a different response to provide an illusion of listening from different seat in the hall.

And yet only one of those variations (near, middle, far) is intended by the mixing engineer, and that would be revealed by a neutral speaker. When I set up a monitoring system, my intention is to have the most neutral reproduction I can manage, in terms of tonality or timbre. If that can be coupled with generous dynamic range and low THD and IMD, so much the better. I would still characterize that system as neutral and thus capable of sounding natural, with a natural sounding recording—which does eliminate some. The ideal for me would be a system that has no character at all; a clear window into the recording with all its warts, if any. Yes, some recordings will sound as bad as they in fact are but others, at least, will sound as good as they are and I find the variety entertaining.