DAC Comments in $1-2,000 Range

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Folsom

Re: DAC Comments in $1-2,000 Range
« Reply #60 on: 30 Jan 2016, 01:45 am »
I like loading CD's and playing albums. It's actually a big turn off for me to use streamers and such. Vinyl is ok, but it's a bit much flipping the record so it's special mood only. Sooo it's mostly PCM for me, unless I get something SACD capable.

jhm731

Re: DAC Comments in $1-2,000 Range
« Reply #61 on: 30 Jan 2016, 02:11 am »
I like loading CD's and playing albums. It's actually a big turn off for me to use streamers and such. Vinyl is ok, but it's a bit much flipping the record so it's special mood only. Sooo it's mostly PCM for me, unless I get something SACD capable.

PS Audio is updating their PWT to play SACDs. It already does DVD-As in addition to Redbook.

Folsom

Re: DAC Comments in $1-2,000 Range
« Reply #62 on: 30 Jan 2016, 02:36 am »
PS Audio is updating their PWT to play SACDs. It already does DVD-As in addition to Redbook.

It's not a DAC. My cd player is old but pretty good still.


AmpDesigner333

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Re: DAC Comments in $1-2,000 Range
« Reply #64 on: 31 Jan 2016, 05:39 pm »
Does DSD remind anyone else of Beta VCRs?  I've yet to hear a compelling argument against simply converting to high rate PCM.  JRiver, for example, does this automatically if you set it up correctly.  Perhaps a hardware conversion device would be an interesting product....  hmmmmm.

tvyankee

Re: DAC Comments in $1-2,000 Range
« Reply #65 on: 31 Jan 2016, 07:29 pm »
Hello.

If you are referring to converting pcm  to dsd  then I would say in my own opinion that a a piece of music that was recorded originally in dsd is better then pm to me.

If on the other hand you are saying record something or everything in dsd then cross convert to pcm the I would say yes to that as it may sound better then the original pm recording.

I look at it this way. When hd tv first came out and before anyone was watching it at home there were a lot of things that recorded and shown live in people's home s that was down converted and you could tell the difference  right away it wasn't even a second thought.

So I am not  totally sure what you are asking but if it's what I just explained then I would say dsd.

Btw just a piece of history the man behind dsd the beta and and mpeg2  is the same guy from sony. Hugo

Also beta format is still used in tv today as I just recorded on it yesterday for espn.

Thanks

ACHiPo

Re: DAC Comments in $1-2,000 Range
« Reply #66 on: 1 Feb 2016, 12:50 am »
Here's another one:

http://en.auneaudio.com/index.php?s=Home/Article/detail/id/83.html

http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2016/01/30/review-aune-s16-dac/
Wow that's a pretty glowing review of a $650 DAC, although his disparaging comments about the Mytek 192 seem pretty harsh, particularly given the high praise it's gotten from several other reviewers.  The other DACs he compares haven't been on my list, although the Yggdrasil certainly has its share of fans, but he just damns it with faint praise.
Quote
Keeping the S16 in-house for several months gave me the opportunity to put it up against many well-known sub $3K DACs which is the target (call them giants) this killer wants to slay. So during the last few months and in no particular order the following converters made it in my place:

The Marantz HD-DAC 1, which never stood a chance against the Aune; it clearly lacked in detail retrieval, soundstage dimensions and sheer impact on the lower registers. I was expecting something more from the Marantz DAC and remained somewhat puzzled by the 90s sound. Digital has done a leap ahead in recent years but Marantz lost the pace.

The Pioneer U-05, which has the edge in bottom octave reproduction as it packs a faster and better defined slam, but loses a point in timbre, where the Aune manages to be both warmer and more engaging. Probably the best of the lot along with the Aune. Depending on the system (warmer or monitor oriented) this could be the right match for those looking for a very well made, under $1K DAC.

The Mytek 192 DSD (now replaced by the new Brooklyn DAC), probably the worst in terms of tonal balance and timbre, with its metallic and edgy sound. That said, it was among the best when it came in bottom-end extension, and definitely packs more detail than the Aune. I cherish a more natural voice timbre to ultimate bass and find hard to listen to more than 20 minutes with the Mytek 192 which has “listening fatigue” written all over it.

The Hegel HD12, which apart from being the only one not to work properly with my Linux streamer, was, for my taste, too warm — almost syrupy. I can imagine several listeners picking this one as it will never offend, even with the worst recordings, but it won’t make your great ones shine either. The Hegel HD12 and the Mytek 192 sit on the antipodes of digital playback with the Aune placed somehwere in the middle and closer to the Hegel when it comes to sweetness.

The Schiit Yggrdasil, a reasonable value for money, but with a slight harshness in the upper mids and an overall grain in the sound. The Aune appears more forgiving on certain recordings, despite the Schiit being a ladder-DAC and the Aune a ΔΣ design. The “Yggy” as many call it is well built, costs and weights three times more but did not manage to confirm the rather high expectations created by the community and certain forums.

Finally, the Geek Pulse XFi with external power supply, a total disaster when used with the single ended RCA output for both soundtstage and macrodynamics, where the much cheaper Aune demolished it in all possible ways. Things were very different through the balanced connectors where the gap was much, much narrower and on certain things, such as bottom extension, the Pulse had the Aune “by the XLRs”.

AmpDesigner333

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Re: DAC Comments in $1-2,000 Range
« Reply #67 on: 1 Feb 2016, 03:26 pm »
It just seems to me to make sense to process DSD as DSD and PCM as PCM.  The more crunching, the more opportunity for error.  The reviews I've read seem to be consistent with that approach.

Well, it's a computer process, and the data output is the same regardless of the amount of "crunching" as long as the CPU can handle it.  If it can't, there will be gaps in the stream, and it's a black and white thing as opposed to shades of gray.  That, plus the hardware needs to "keep up" and raw DSD over USB is ironically more likely to cause an issue on that side.  Errors with DSD over USB are much more audible (possibly damaging?) from what I've heard.

High rate PCM just sounds better to most of the people I've discussed this with.  This may be due to the inherent HF noise of DSD and it's effect on downstream equipment.  It's a lot easier to attenuate the HF noise in the digital domain.

I think that's what I'm doing currently--running JRiver

Can you check the JRiver settings?  You can set the output format to pretty much whatever you want.  That's the beauty of it.  This way, you can use a simple, high performance, reasonably priced DAC.  I'm not allowed to suggest one, but....

Thanks (:

-Tommy O

jtsnead

Re: DAC Comments in $1-2,000 Range
« Reply #68 on: 1 Feb 2016, 08:14 pm »
Just found this thread, I was wondering if anyone has based on the price range or less in the op
upgraded their Oppo BDP-105 with a dac that made a noticeable improvement, also would
like to keep SACD playback.

AmpDesigner333

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USB to S/PDIF
« Reply #69 on: 2 Feb 2016, 02:11 am »
In case anyone's looking for a decent USB to S/PDIF converter ---- PCM only, but you can convert DSD to high rate PCM at the source with good results, some say better than with straight DSD ---- there's lots of discussion about the subject here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=137912.0

Also a few tid-bits here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=140244.msg1497676#msg1497676

We've had good experiences with some very inexpensive converters.  Most notable is a Phiree unit, well under $100, that goes to 96k/24, available on Amazon:
http://amzn.com/B00OMP81JQ

-Tommy O

ACHiPo

Re: USB to S/PDIF
« Reply #70 on: 2 Feb 2016, 02:56 am »
In case anyone's looking for a decent USB to S/PDIF converter ---- PCM only, but you can convert DSD to high rate PCM at the source with good results, some say better than with straight DSD ---- there's lots of discussion about the subject here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=137912.0

Also a few tid-bits here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=140244.msg1497676#msg1497676

We've had good experiences with some very inexpensive converters.  Most notable is a Phiree unit, well under $100, that goes to 96k/24, available on Amazon:
http://amzn.com/B00OMP81JQ

-Tommy O
Tommy,
I got all twitterpated at the price, then saw that it's only good to 96/24, which I can already output from my Aurender.  The USB to SP/DIF that can handle 1x DSD seem to go for a lot more money?  I saw the Halide Bridge on the DAC DAC page which looks really cool, but it runs $450 new.

AC

Relayer_CR

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Re: DAC Comments in $1-2,000 Range
« Reply #71 on: 9 Aug 2016, 07:17 pm »
Hi, Datahut.

DAC technology/capability has been zipping along at breakneck speed for a couple years now. New models seem to come out every 18 to 24 months with upgraded DAC chips and/or new bells and whistles to catch shoppers' eyes. I did not check the Benchmark DACs, but both the 851D and Mytek 190-DSD are two-plus years old now. That's almost like buying a new four year old automobile. It's still new, but 2016 models are better. [Okay, that's my perception.]

I'm interested in getting the most from my money, so I'm keenly interested in manufacturer-direct products with quality manufacturing history/reputation.

Just my two bits. YMMV.

Michael


Hello, I know this post is from more than 6 months ago, but I just discovered it!

I'd like to know what has Cambridge 851D that is obsolete, or what new technologies it does not has.

Thank you!

Relayer_CR

JLM

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Re: DAC Comments in $1-2,000 Range
« Reply #72 on: 11 Aug 2016, 10:56 am »
DAC's:  buy cheap and often.

Format wars have moved from SACD/DVDa to DSD/MQA.  And the same question of market viability is at hand.

Schiit has (re)introduced IMO the most interesting technology of late: an option to delta-sigma processing, that being based on the old R2R technology.  The nice thing about the better Schiit DAC's is that they are upgradable thus eliminating my advice regarding buying cheap and often.

But there's much more to a DAC than just the processor, anti-jitter, filters, power supplies, output sections, etc.

ACHiPo

Re: DAC Comments in $1-2,000 Range
« Reply #73 on: 11 Aug 2016, 06:22 pm »
I remain extremely happy with my Gustard X20U DAC, which was under $900.  I haven't directly compared it to a Schiit or Vega, but at least one person sold their other more expensive DACs when they got the Gustard.  I also recommend the Triode Wire Labs USB cable.  The pair would set you back about $1100 or so.

mresseguie

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Re: DAC Comments in $1-2,000 Range
« Reply #74 on: 11 Aug 2016, 06:39 pm »

Hello, I know this post is from more than 6 months ago, but I just discovered it!

I'd like to know what has Cambridge 851D that is obsolete, or what new technologies it does not has.

Thank you!

Relayer_CR

Hello, Relayer.

I wasn't suggesting the 851D was obsolete, but that newer DACs offer better sound and capabilities. I checked the Cambridge website for specs and immediately noticed the 851D does not support DSD. If you want DSD capability, you must look elsewhere. If you have no need for DSD, it's all good.

I have the same Gustard x20 DAC that ACHiPo spoke of. I am very happy with its price and abilities.

Good luck in your search.

Michael

zybar

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Re: DAC Comments in $1-2,000 Range
« Reply #75 on: 11 Aug 2016, 07:24 pm »
I remain extremely happy with my Gustard X20U DAC, which was under $900.  I haven't directly compared it to a Schiit or Vega, but at least one person sold their other more expensive DACs when they got the Gustard.  I also recommend the Triode Wire Labs USB cable.  The pair would set you back about $1100 or so.

If you do want to go to the higher end of your budget, I just listed my Auralic Vega for sale.

It is a great sounding DAC and worthy of all the awards and accolades.

George

gnostalgick

Re: DAC Comments in $1-2,000 Range
« Reply #76 on: 11 Aug 2016, 07:56 pm »
The 851 still seems to be Cambridge's top of the line dac, so I wouldn't call it out of date.  It was reasonably well-regarded when it was introduced (though no one seems passionate about it, as some are with Cambridge cd players) and it made a good first impression (fast & accurate) when I heard it briefly.  Unless there's something you dislike about the sound, it seems likely most products will just offer a different flavor of competence rather than an all over improvement.

AmpDesigner333

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Relayer_CR

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Re: DAC Comments in $1-2,000 Range
« Reply #78 on: 28 Aug 2016, 11:37 pm »
Hello, Relayer.

I wasn't suggesting the 851D was obsolete, but that newer DACs offer better sound and capabilities. I checked the Cambridge website for specs and immediately noticed the 851D does not support DSD. If you want DSD capability, you must look elsewhere. If you have no need for DSD, it's all good.

I have the same Gustard x20 DAC that ACHiPo spoke of. I am very happy with its price and abilities.

Good luck in your search.

Michael

Thank you very much, I'm looking for an upgrade to my Parasound zDac, and I found the Cambridge at Amazon about $800.  So I've been reading about the Nuprime DAC-9, however I have other Nuprime devices, and I've had some problems and failures ..., but Nuprime did not answer my mails, so, ...

Cheeseboy

Re: DAC Comments in $1-2,000 Range
« Reply #79 on: 29 Aug 2016, 12:54 am »
I'd get something with MQA built in.