Poor cd quality - guilty artists?

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timind

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Re: Poor cd quality - guilty artists?
« Reply #20 on: 23 Jan 2018, 01:35 am »
I think that Adele's cd's are poorly recorded.  Such a shame with that fabulous voice.
Absolutely unlistenable on a decent system. Ok on fm radio though.

Stu Pitt

Re: Poor cd quality - guilty artists?
« Reply #21 on: 20 Apr 2018, 06:22 pm »
The worst I’ve ever heard and probably ever will are the Glenn Danzig era Misfits albums.  He allegedly financed the whole thing himself before anyone really heard of him, so I guess it goes without saying he didn’t have the money to make them sound anything near good.  It genuinely sounds like they put a tape in a ghetto blaster boom box, hit record, and started playing.  Truly iconic punk music though. 

David C

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Re: Poor cd quality - guilty artists?
« Reply #22 on: 20 Apr 2018, 07:27 pm »
Jimmy Buffett .......... all really poorly recorded. A shame since I grew up liking his music. Sound ok in a car but not much else

FullRangeMan

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Re: Poor cd quality - guilty artists?
« Reply #23 on: 20 Apr 2018, 08:02 pm »
Jimmy Buffett .......... all really poorly recorded. A shame since I grew up liking his music. Sound ok in a car but not much else
For security reasons listening to radio or music in cars should be prohibited.

Wind Chaser

Re: Poor cd quality - guilty artists?
« Reply #24 on: 20 Apr 2018, 08:23 pm »
For security reasons listening to radio or music in cars should be prohibited.

For security reasons?  :scratch:

FullRangeMan

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Re: Poor cd quality - guilty artists?
« Reply #25 on: 20 Apr 2018, 08:37 pm »
For security reasons?  :scratch:
I should have said for safety reasons :green:

JerryM

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Re: Poor cd quality - guilty artists?
« Reply #26 on: 20 Apr 2018, 08:39 pm »
I should have said for safety reasons :green:

Your idea of safety is one of the most dangerous things I've ever read.

celebrat

Re: Poor cd quality - guilty artists?
« Reply #27 on: 21 Apr 2018, 01:56 am »
Quote
I think that Adele's cd's are poorly recorded.  Such a shame with that fabulous voice.

I agree as well and it is very sad. Adele "Live at Alpert Hall" CD/DVD set is a good sounding exception

Mag

Re: Poor cd quality - guilty artists?
« Reply #28 on: 21 Apr 2018, 03:39 am »
I have to nominate Ted Nugent. He was my kinda hard rock guitarist. But the high treble set for his guitar drowns out the bass in the recordings. Live in Sweden was much better but suffers from compression.

I do however have a good recording of Stranglehold. Love the Ted Nugent show at Rockpalace '76 in Germany on Youtube. IMO his best performance.

Russell Dawkins

Re: Poor cd quality - guilty artists?
« Reply #29 on: 21 Apr 2018, 06:49 am »

I was shocked in 2009 when I discover the German master of symphonic rock Klaus Schulze recorded in DAT tape Tascan DAT-30 and Sony DAT-2700A:


Why were you shocked?

I see he was also using KS Digital speakers in a 5.1 surround set up in 2003. Have you even heard of KS Digital speakers even now, 15 years later?

Too many armchair experts.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Poor cd quality - guilty artists?
« Reply #30 on: 21 Apr 2018, 08:17 am »
Why were you shocked?

I see he was also using KS Digital speakers in a 5.1 surround set up in 2003. Have you even heard of KS Digital speakers even now, 15 years later?

Too many armchair experts.
These reconding machines were very inexpensive at the time and poor 16/48 sound, a great sympnonic rock master as Klaus deserve something much better, I feel for Klaus fans who like his music which I include me, DAT is a awful media to store anything, until 1998 I used DAT tapes to made backups in a Compaq Server that came w/a DAT driver, the tapes (Scotch and TDK) lasted only 4 weeks until starting present datachecks during recording or even reject at the tape insertion on driver.

One time I let a new DAT tape fall on the floor, just because this it was not recognized by the backup program I had to use another tape, so when I see the worldwide famous KS using DAT tape as main master source I could not believe.

I like Stereo tube amps not 5.1 Receiver designed for movies,
you talk as if Multi Channel sound was something decent or purist.

I dont like listen speaker w/xovers, even dint got impressed anymore w/it hi spl capabilities or its harmonic content(none) but if you have German Alnico vintage FR drivers invite me to an audition.

JLM

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Re: Poor cd quality - guilty artists?
« Reply #31 on: 21 Apr 2018, 09:59 am »
Listening to an audiophile 'guilty pleasure' now.  Sorry but I like the music.

Artists are connected to their agents/labels and thus 'trapped' into using given recording/mixing studios, producers, and mastering studios.  Very few have the clout to have a say.  And as most things in this life, the adage "follow the money" comes to mind.  Those few artists who can dictate their producers (who pick the studios and has final say in the sound) probably owe friendships and favors to who got them to that position.  That's the real world.

Quality of recordings largely reflect the bulk of the intended audience.  For pop, think portable players using ear buds by non-discerning pre-teens.  For rock, think very high spls listened to by anti-conformists (young adults and ruffians who probably prefer distortion).  Many rock performers actually purposefully generate distortion as part of their music.  Regardless most pop/rock instruments are artificial (electronic) anyway, so there is no real standard to measure their sound against.  Modern pop performers are largely picked based on persona, not their voices.  So these genres really don't relate well to high fidelity reproduction.

Any complaints about mainstream studio (not those produced by raw amateurs) jazz or classical recordings?  Those recordings reflect the use of "real" instruments and mature audiences (the fodder of serious audiophiles). 

Russell Dawkins

Re: Poor cd quality - guilty artists?
« Reply #32 on: 21 Apr 2018, 03:21 pm »
These reconding machines were very inexpensive at the time and poor 16/48 sound, a great sympnonic rock master as Klaus deserve something much better, I feel for Klaus fans who like his music which I include me, DAT is a awful media to store anything, until 1998 I used DAT tapes to made backups in a Compaq Server that came w/a DAT driver, the tapes (Scotch and TDK) lasted only 4 weeks until starting present datachecks during recording or even reject at the tape insertion on driver.

One time I let a new DAT tape fall on the floor, just because this it was not recognized by the backup program I had to use another tape, so when I see the worldwide famous KS using DAT tape as main master source I could not believe.

I like Stereo tube amps not 5.1 Receiver designed for movies,
you talk as if Multi Channel sound was something decent or purist.

I dont like listen speaker w/xovers, even dint got impressed anymore w/it hi spl capabilities or its harmonic content(none) but if you have German Alnico vintage FR drivers invite me to an audition.


I am beginning to understand why you and maty are capable of having a dialogue.

What you have typed here is, apparently, a deeply confused picture of reality.

In the first place, you appear to be confusing DAT tape with the short-lived cassette data storage era. The tape in your image is a cassette tape, not a DAT tape.

Secondly, the Tascam DA-30 was a fully professional and very good sounding unit, widely used—and 16/44, done right, is excellent. 16/48 was established as a consumer format to create incompatibility and keep the consumer away from pro grade stuff. It failed to do so, but became the de-facto video standard, strangely.

Thirdly, DAT tapes are a very robust archival medium; I guess you are talking about the short-lived cassette data storage format.

Finally, possessing a 5.1 system comprised of KS Digital speakers is an indicator of seriousness on the part of Klaus. KS Digital speakers are both exceptionally good and exceptionally expensive—vastly better, it could be argued, than any wideband speaker—whether the tweeter is shot out or not.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Poor cd quality - guilty artists?
« Reply #33 on: 21 Apr 2018, 09:15 pm »
I am beginning to understand why you and maty are capable of having a dialogue.

What you have typed here is, apparently, a deeply confused picture of reality.

In the first place, you appear to be confusing DAT tape with the short-lived cassette data storage era. The tape in your image is a cassette tape, not a DAT tape.

Secondly, the Tascam DA-30 was a fully professional and very good sounding unit, widely used—and 16/44, done right, is excellent. 16/48 was established as a consumer format to create incompatibility and keep the consumer away from pro grade stuff. It failed to do so, but became the de-facto video standard, strangely.

Thirdly, DAT tapes are a very robust archival medium; I guess you are talking about the short-lived cassette data storage format.

Finally, possessing a 5.1 system comprised of KS Digital speakers is an indicator of seriousness on the part of Klaus. KS Digital speakers are both exceptionally good and exceptionally  better, it could be argued, than any wideband speaker—whether the tweeter is shot out or not.
I wrong posted this mini cassete image as DAT, I mean say DAT tapes indeed,
analog cassete dont work as digital data backup. The referred DAT tapes were from good brands about $20usd and lasted very one month being used just once or twince a week(Sunday) for backup files in a Server, its not great reliability.

I have found various pro audio guys saying 16/44 is good, even being the lowest quality in digital recording. The prob here is I dont want spend my money on hardware and very low expectations.

Personal attacks have become frequent on this forum lately.

Russell Dawkins

Re: Poor cd quality - guilty artists?
« Reply #34 on: 21 Apr 2018, 09:41 pm »
I wrong posted this mini cassete image as DAT, I mean say DAT tapes indeed,
analog cassete dont work as digital data backup. The referred DAT tapes were from good brands about $20usd and lasted very one month being used just once or twince a week(Sunday) for backup files in a Server, its not great reliability.

I have found various pro audio guys saying 16/44 is good, even being the lowest quality in digital recording. The prob here is I dont want spend my money on hardware and very low expectations.

Personal attacks have become frequent on this forum lately.
Well, I have had 5 DAT machines over the years—an Aiwa HD-S1 in 1991, two Teac DAP-20s until 2002, a Tascam DA-30 from 1995 to present and a  Panasonic SV-3700 and have never had a single DAT failure, ever, over all those years. So much for not great reliability.
I do have a large number of Princo CDRs—many of them masters of my recordings from 2000 to 2011—that will not play at all, on any one of my 5 CD players and are a complete write-off. Since 2004 I have stored my masters on my hard drive, with two back ups.

My point is that you are wrong in saying that DATs are unreliable and you are spreading false information. You are also very wrong in criticising Klaus Schulze studio set up based on his equipment list of 2003 and presuming he is thus unable to produce good quality recordings. You are not qualified to pass judgement based on his equipment list, nor should you, with your apparent lack of experience.

And, finally, analog cassettes were used as digital data backup, albeit briefly, thankfully:
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/history-removable-computer-storage/

FullRangeMan

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Re: Poor cd quality - guilty artists?
« Reply #35 on: 21 Apr 2018, 09:57 pm »
Well, I have had 5 DAT machines over the years—an Aiwa HD-S1 in 1991, two Teac DAP-20s until 2002, a Tascam DA-30 from 1995 to present and a  Panasonic SV-3700 and have never had a single DAT failure, ever, over all those years. So much for not great reliability.
I do have a large number of Princo CDRs—many of them masters of my recordings from 2000 to 2011—that will not play at all, on any one of my 5 CD players and are a complete write-off. Since 2004 I have stored my masters on my hard drive, with two back ups.

My point is that you are wrong in saying that DATs are unreliable and you are spreading false information. You are also very wrong in criticising Klaus Schulze studio set up based on his equipment list of 2003 and presuming he is thus unable to produce good quality recordings. You are not qualified to pass judgement based on his equipment list, nor should you, with your apparent lack of experience.
Not sure what you mean say by failure as seems you recording just once in a tape and store it in a vault. Again personal attack to disqualify me buddy!

Russell Dawkins

Re: Poor cd quality - guilty artists?
« Reply #36 on: 22 Apr 2018, 12:52 am »
Not sure what you mean say by failure as seems you recording just once in a tape and store it in a vault. Again personal attack to disqualify me buddy!
Not so much personal attack as targetted pointing out of irrational, pointless and insulting comments.

How would you feel if you were Klaus Schulze and someone with so little experience as not to know what a DAT tape even looked like criticized the quality of his work by pointing out that in 2003 his equipment line up included DAT machines, yet at the same time not knowing that the speakers in his list (KS Digital) indicated someone who was very much indeed concerned with quality.

There is a reason "audiophile" is used as a pejorative term in the recording industry.

KS Digital are very expensive as well as very good, by the way, although they do have tweeters, so I guess that disqualifies them in your books.

And don't get me started...
« Last Edit: 22 Apr 2018, 04:26 pm by Russell Dawkins »

Letitroll98

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Re: Poor cd quality - guilty artists?
« Reply #37 on: 22 Apr 2018, 11:19 am »

There is a reason "audiophile" is used as a perjorative term in the recording industry.


This is very interesting to me Russell.  I always enjoy your posts as a window into the professional world.  So recording engineers despise audiophiles?  And audiophiles despise engineers that compress dynamics and destroy sound staging?  Seems like a system designed for failure.  Yet I have a library full of wonderful recordings.  Somebody didn't get the memo?  Thanks again for your insights.

JLM

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Re: Poor cd quality - guilty artists?
« Reply #38 on: 22 Apr 2018, 11:47 am »
This is very interesting to me Russell.  I always enjoy your posts as a window into the professional world.  So recording engineers despise audiophiles?  And audiophiles despise engineers that compress dynamics and destroy sound staging?  Seems like a system designed for failure.  Yet I have a library full of wonderful recordings.  Somebody didn't get the memo?  Thanks again for your insights.

It's almost always the producer who wants dynamics squeezed to fit better into the pop world of FM, car radio, and personal sound gear used by non-discriminating young listeners who make up most of the music buying market.  Again, 'serious' music such as classical or jazz has fewer truly poor recordings.

Yes professionals have little patience for the bulk of audiophiles, who fixate on witch hunts regarding stuff that has little influence on the nature of the music, prefer various colorations over accurate sound reproduction, and have little idea of what most instruments really sound like or how music is really produced.  That's why they focus on active speakers and avoid stuff like boutique cables or tubes.

Photon46

Re: Poor cd quality - guilty artists?
« Reply #39 on: 22 Apr 2018, 01:31 pm »
Yes professionals have little patience for the bulk of audiophiles, who fixate on witch hunts regarding stuff that has little influence on the nature of the music, prefer various colorations over accurate sound reproduction, and have little idea of what most instruments really sound like or how music is really produced.  That's why they focus on active speakers and avoid stuff like boutique cables or tubes.

Your characterization of professional disdain for cables, tubes, and "audiophile" concerns paints a picture with a brush too broad. There are plenty of examples of recording professionals that do care about cables, power conditioning, tubes, etc. Doug Sax was well regarded as one of the greatest mastering engineers of all times and he was obsessed with every detail of the recording technology chain. He even obsessed about connectors degrading influence on cable performance and hardwired as much as he could, insisting on silver solder. Plenty of vacuum tubes were found in his Sheffield Lab studios. Until 2003 engineer Kavi Alexander at Water Lily Acoustics recordings used EAR/Tim Paravacini tubed equipment. He switched his recording studio over to solid state digital after that date as he felt the world was moving on and digital technology had advanced far enough to merit the changeover. These two examples are admittedly in an earlier era.

In more recent times producer Rick Ruben, Skywalker Sound studios, Astoria Studios UK, Phillip Crest National Studio, Mobile Fidelity, Sony Studios Japan, and others endorse and use Shunyata Audio cables and power conditioning. 

Abbey Road studios in London uses Classe amplification and B&W 800D speakers, not your typical monitoring room equipment. 

I think it's true that recording professionals aren't going to waste time and money on things they deem irrelevant to outcomes. However, just as we have different ideas about what matters in our home systems, there are differences in tastes, choices, and opinions in recording studios.