More Amazing DACs for Peanuts

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o0o

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Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
« Reply #160 on: 3 Dec 2017, 09:34 am »
I sort of compared it to normal listening (x2-x3 battery drain of da3) I will test the battery percentage out for you. Power saving helps too. Just buy a separate battery until you sort things out!

x2-x3 battery drain of da3 - that doesn't sound good at all, with Dragonfly it's just slightly more than regular usage (as I've read somewhere, not my personal experience).

I looked around for angled micro usbs with or without usb-c's. I couldn't find any that won't ruin my note 4's micro usb socket while walking, running etc...

Long story short you have to make your own cables...

I'm sort of ok with soldering, but that silicon just hurts my eyes and doesn't look solid at all. :roll:

Not sure if there's a factory OTG Y cable that we need at least there's this one on amazon.

Product description:
High quality Original USB 2.0 Micro-B HOST OTG CABLE
It's a standard USB Micro-B HOST Cable , need your machine support usb host OTG function .
FOR : Samsung S2 i9100 S3 i9300 i9220 9250 XOOM A500 and more use.
Can use MOUSE KEYBOARD GPS USB DISK and more ......
The Micro-B plug is for OTG device.and also for Power charge.
There is Micro USB female power connector, Can charge the extral USB device , like usb flash disk, usb hard disk.
The disk format must be FAT32 if you connect the storage.
connector: USB 2.0 A female to micro 5 pin male left 90 degree angled + micro 5pin female

The question now is if it will charge the phone or just supply the DAC with power? Obviously most if not all of these Y OTG cables provide external power to an attached peripheral device (read: external HDD). Also quite few android kernels support charging in "Host mode".  Hence I'm not very optimistic about it all honestly.  :?
« Last Edit: 7 Dec 2017, 09:47 am by o0o »

karnana

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Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
« Reply #161 on: 3 Dec 2017, 11:48 am »
x2-x3 battery drain of da3 - that doesn't sound good at all, with Dragonfly it's just slightly more than regular usage (as I've read somewhere, not my personal experience).

I'm sort of ok with soldering, but that silicon just hurts my eyes and doesn't look solid at all. :roll:

Not sure if there's a factory OTG Y cable that we need at least there's this one on amazon:


Product description:
High quality Original USB 2.0 Micro-B HOST OTG CABLE
It's a standard USB Micro-B HOST Cable , need your machine support usb host OTG function .
FOR : Samsung S2 i9100 S3 i9300 i9220 9250 XOOM A500 and more use.
Can use MOUSE KEYBOARD GPS USB DISK and more ......
The Micro-B plug is for OTG device.and also for Power charge.
There is Micro USB female power connector, Can charge the extral USB device , like usb flash disk, usb hard disk.
The disk format must be FAT32 if you connect the storage.
connector: USB 2.0 A female to micro 5 pin male left 90 degree angled + micro 5pin female

The question now is if it will charge the phone or just supply the DAC with power? Obviously most if not all of these Y OTG cables provide external power to an attached peripheral device (read: external HDD). Also quite few android kernels support charging in "Host mode".  Hence I'm not very optimistic about it all honestly.  :?
****************************
Note 4 from fully charged:
Koss porta pro + airplane mode + power-saving + viper4android force mode
30 minute (5-minute repeats) full volume listening: 98% (very close to 99%)

Koss porta pro + airplane mode + power-saving + viper4android force mode + sabaj  da3:
30 minute (5-minute repeats) equal volume listening: 93%
****************************

I think it definitely worth it but I always choose quality over quantity :D I had 0 driver issues with da3 you should consider the possibility of that too with other Chinese versions.

You can use black silicone for aesthetics or top it with cable heat shrink and cut unnecessary parts.
Try that cable but I doubt it will work. I tried not that one but very similar ones that just powered da3 or just charged wi otg.
I will probably plug one of these for power when I have to... to my soon-to-be cable :D :


Also you can buy thicker but bigger capacity battery for your cellphone that comes with its own cover.



o0o

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Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
« Reply #162 on: 3 Dec 2017, 12:22 pm »
Note 4 from fully charged:
Koss porta pro + airplane mode + power-saving + viper4android force mode
30 minute (5-minute repeats) full volume listening: 98% (very close to 99%)

Note 4 battery averages:
Koss porta pro + airplane mode + power-saving + viper4android force mode + sabaj  da3:
30 minute (5-minute repeats) equal volume listening: 93%

I think it definitely worth it but I always choose quality over quantity :D I had 0 driver issues with da3 you should consider the possibility of that too with other Chinese versions.
Thanks! It's almost the same level of consumption with or without Da3 attached (if i'm reading it right) which is weird. I guess you're using ViperFX at max quality, hence such a fast battery discharge.

Try that cable but I doubt it will work. I tried not that one but very similar ones that just powered da3 or just charged and no otg.
Yes, that's what it is. All of Y OTG cables are designed to provide external power to an attached peripheral device, not the host.

Meanwhile for Samsung phones there's SMARTDOCK mode that enables a Host mode + charging at around 900mA at the same time! Samsung Multimedia Dock is one of such devices proving that possibility. Also it's been proved to work with Note 4 and external DAC!

Maybe there's an OTG cable out there based on the same logic for Samsung phones that needs to be found or made...  :wink:

karnana

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Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
« Reply #163 on: 3 Dec 2017, 12:55 pm »
Thanks! It's almost the same level of consumption with or without Da3 attached (if i'm reading it right) which is weird. I guess you're using ViperFX at max quality, hence such a fast battery discharge.
Yes, that's what it is. All of Y OTG cables are designed to provide external power to an attached peripheral device, not the host.

Meanwhile for Samsung phones there's SMARTDOCK mode that enables a Host mode + charging at around 900mA at the same time! Samsung Multimedia Dock is one of such devices proving that possibility. Also it's been proved to work with Note 4 and external DAC!

Maybe there's an OTG cable out there based on the same logic for Samsung phones that needs to be found or made...  :wink:

No. Without Da3 charge went down 100% to 98% in 30 minutes. With Da3 charge went down 100% to 93% in 30 minutes! :(

Let's see if resistor hack works :D It plays with that host mode (4th pin). For silicone aesthatics you can use heat shrink: https://ibb.co/fhpvUb

o0o

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Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
« Reply #164 on: 3 Dec 2017, 01:32 pm »
No. Without Da3 charge went down 100% to 98% in 30 minutes. With Da3 charge went down 100% to 93% in 30 minutes! :(
Oh, yes, I've read it wrong. Well, not too bad still. Thank you! :thumb:

Let's see if resistor hack works :D It plays with that host mode (4th pin). For silicone aesthatics you can use heat shrink: https://ibb.co/fhpvUb
Best of luck with that hack, just don't burn your phone's motherboard, please! :roll: Also check the info about SMARTDOCK mode, I've provided in my previous post. It's a guaranteed to work option since it's official by Samsung, hence no hardware or software/kernel limitations.

Btw there's an adapter that does exactly what we need but for a hefty price and no guarantee of working with Samsung phones. Only several Samsung tablets are officially supported.
« Last Edit: 3 Dec 2017, 04:55 pm by o0o »

karnana

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Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
« Reply #165 on: 3 Dec 2017, 07:01 pm »
For that price I can buy a dock and destroy it to make it portable. The trick will be finding the right resistance to force it to dock mode :wink:

wushuliu

Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
« Reply #166 on: 5 Dec 2017, 08:20 pm »
Just a reminder to those who may not have the thread all the way through but these dacs are finicky with portable and possibly Mac devices, especially the DSD. I use them strictly for desktop PC so no issues. But android/Mac folks may have problems.

o0o

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Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
« Reply #167 on: 6 Dec 2017, 05:30 pm »
Ok, I've got the smaller or shall I say the micro DAC Sabaj Da28)

This tiny piece of tech freaks me out, really! I couldn't believe how small it actually is! It sounds absolutely great for the price! Clean sound full of clarity, punch, wide soundstage, tonal neutrality, etc... Powerful enough to drive most HPs under 300 Ohm! And damn it! It really does play @ freaking 768000Hz 32bit resolution! :o :o :o Unbelievable!

I've briefly testes it using ASIO drivers with foobar2000 1.3.17 on Win10 ultrabook with SoX Resampler 0.8.3 for PCM upsamling and and SACD Decoder 1.0.11 for DSD files - all perfect! The led is changing according to the stream type and sample rate. There are no glitches or other issues with the sound whatsoever under extreme max settings or any other settings! :thumb:

I'll test it later with Android and iPad and let you know the result. Stay tuned!  :lol:

o0o

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Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
« Reply #168 on: 7 Dec 2017, 11:43 am »
Alright, Da2 works almost flawlessly with my old Samsung Note 3 (Snapdragon 800) running a slightly modified stock Samsung ROM (Android 5.0). No noise, no glitches, all fine with the stock player and all others.

Here are some impressions about the ones with their own drivers:
Onkyo HF Player - fast and stable, has a real-time PCM to native DSD512 converter! No cue support, no gapless, no network features.
Neutron - supports almost all formats and network options, plays files with embedded cue, has gapless playback, no PCM to DSD conversion.
USB Audio Player PRO - works fine, but cannot fastseek 192kHz tracks for some reason, has network options, no PCM to DSD conversion.
Poweramp - not bitperfect, always re-samples, way too much glitching, no network options.
HibyMusic - no sound, just endless clicking.

A bit more about the features and sound:
- this tiny DAC accepts native DSD stream (non-DoP) up to DSD512
- sounds beautiful in DSD mode, adds some kind of magical 3D effect and glow to the music
- comparing to laptop & smartphone - a major upgrade, comparing to the old Cowon iAudio7 Wolfson WM8731L chip - not that much but still an upgrade especially in DSD mode + all HiRes possibilities and output power.
- ESS SABRE is one punchy beast! The sound is strait to your ears/face and it's razor sharp when it comes to details - every sound is very well defined and clear.
- this is not a warm-sounding DAC, be warned, but rather very well balanced. Wolfson WM8731L is quite midrangeee in comparison, hence a bit more open sounding and a bit warmer and less punchy, less extreme highs and lows.

The bad:
- the unit warms up quite well but nothing extreme here.
- switching from max resolution 768kHz to anything lower will produce nothing but clicking until re-plug. Might be foobar-related gotta check with JRiver.
- supplied cables are very cheap and seem non-durable.

The worst:
- my unit has a hardware issue with the microUSB port. It gets disconnected easily by any slight movement. Hence not usable on the go and probably will die very soon. I've tried several USB cables to make sure it's a socket problem. Gotta return/replace it. Donno if I shall get Da3 instead, any suggestions anyone?
« Last Edit: 8 Dec 2017, 06:17 pm by o0o »

uncola

Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
« Reply #169 on: 7 Dec 2017, 03:35 pm »
da3 uses usb-c port so you might like that.  it works fine with usb otb with my moto gs5 plus with android 7 and neutron

karnana

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Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
« Reply #170 on: 7 Dec 2017, 04:02 pm »
Alright, Da2 works almost flawlessly with my old Samsung Note 3 (Snapdragon 800) running a slightly modified stock Samsung ROM (Android 5.0). No noise, no glitches, all fine with the stock player and all others.

Here are some impressions about the ones with their own drivers:
Onkyo HF Player - fast and stable, has a real-time PCM to native DSD512 convertor! No cue support, no gapless, no network features.
Neutron - supports almost all formats and network options, plays files with embedded cue, has gapless playback, no PCM to DSD conversion.
USB Audio Player PRO - works fine, but cannot fastseek 192kHz tracks for some reason, has network options, no PCM to DSD conversion.
Poweramp - not bitperfect, always re-samples, way too much glitching, no network options.
HibyMusic - no sound, just endless clicking.

A bit more about the features and sound:
- this tiny DAC accepts native DSD stream (non-DoP) up to DSD512
- sounds beautiful in DSD mode, adds some kind of magical 3D effect and glow to the music
- comparing to laptop & smartphone - a major upgrade, comparing to the old Cowon iAudio7 Wolfson WM8731L chip - not that much but still an upgrade especially in DSD mode + all HiRes possibilities and output power.
- ESS SABRE is one punchy beast! The sound is strait to your ears/face and it's razor sharp when it comes to details - every sound is very well defined and clear.
- this is not a warm-sounding DAC, be warned, but rather very well balanced. Wolfson WM8731L is quite midrangeee in comparison, hence a bit more open sounding and a bit warmer and less punchy, less extreme highs and lows.

The bad:
- the unit warms up quite well but nothing extreme here.
- switching from max resolution 768kHz to anything lower will produce nothing but clicking until re-plug. Might be foobar-related gotta check with JRiver.
- supplied cables are very cheap and seem non-durable.

The worst:
- my unit has a hardware issue with the microUSB port. It gets disconnected easily by any slight movement. Hence not usable on the go and probably will die very soon. I've tried several USB cables to make sure it's a socket problem. Gotta return/replace it. Donno if I shall get Da3 instead, any suggestions anyone?
If you cant return it and don't want to open it... Black Silicone it! (other colors get dirty very quickly) There is no other reliable way that I know of.  With Note 4 Android 6 Sabaj Da3:

Onkyo HF Player - works fine
Neutron - no problem :D
USB Audio Player PRO -  fine, can fast track 352.8k dsd,  I have no idea to pcm to Dsd convert :D
Poweramp - re-samples, no glitches
HibyMusic - works, downsamples (or up) to 192khz

da3 uses usb-c port so you might like that.  it works fine with usb otb with my moto gs5 plus with android 7 and neutron

Da3 can also have the port issue if your usb-C doesn't click. My micro usb to usb-c clicks but my usb to usb-c doesn't clicks into it:
« Last Edit: 7 Dec 2017, 05:04 pm by karnana »

wushuliu

Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
« Reply #171 on: 7 Dec 2017, 05:22 pm »
Donno if I shall get Da3 instead, any suggestions anyone?

Thank you for the detailed feedback on the portables. VERY helpful. I do have a spare unopened new in box DA3 if you want one.

For those having trouble with DSD via phones/tablets, etc. there are some helpful tips in the comment section of Archimago's SMSL Idea review.

zek

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Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
« Reply #172 on: 7 Dec 2017, 07:31 pm »
.... there are some helpful tips in the comment section of Archimago's SMSL Idea review.
Please for a link for us who are not following. :(

wushuliu

Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
« Reply #173 on: 7 Dec 2017, 07:50 pm »
Please for a link for us who are not following. :(

The link is in the very first post of this thread  :wink:

zek

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Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
« Reply #174 on: 8 Dec 2017, 05:58 pm »
The link is in the very first post of this thread  :wink:
Ohh, I seeee :duh:

o0o

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Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
« Reply #175 on: 8 Dec 2017, 09:36 pm »
da3 uses usb-c port so you might like that.  it works fine with usb otb with my moto gs5 plus with android 7 and neutron
Da2 should be fine as well. I'm just being unlucky with a bad quality control of my unit...

If you cant return it and don't want to open it... Black Silicone it! (other colors get dirty very quickly) There is no other reliable way that I know of.
I can return/replace it (amazon prime). I will try to open it up to check what's inside... But I have to do something asap because the USB-issue affects my experience with the unit quite badly.
With Note 4 Android 6 Sabaj Da3:
Onkyo HF Player - works fine
Neutron - no problem :D
USB Audio Player PRO -  fine, can fast track 352.8k dsd,  I have no idea to pcm to Dsd convert :D
Poweramp - re-samples, no glitches
HibyMusic - works, downsamples (or up) to 192khz
Good!
In Onkyo check the DSD512 conversion/upscaling - no need to thank me... ;)
USB Audio Player PRO - try fastseeking any 192kHz 24 bit tracks and report pls.
Neutron - optimal choice indeed, but no upscaling/PCM2DSD
Poweramp - use the latest beta with HD support and report.
HibyMusic - couldn't make it play a thing.
Da3 can also have the port issue if your usb-C doesn't click. My micro usb to usb-c clicks but my usb to usb-c doesn't clicks into it:

In my case the port just not soldered well I guess or way too loose.
Thank you for the detailed feedback on the portables. VERY helpful. I do have a spare unopened new in box DA3 if you want one.
Thanks! I'm not sure if I really want one. I love how small Da2 is. Not sure if Da3 can prove its superiority in sound quality to justify the switch and additional 50% of Da2 price (I don't need the balance output).
Also please share your experience based on these questions? Thanks.

o0o

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Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
« Reply #176 on: 8 Dec 2017, 10:37 pm »
Tried Da2 with my old iPad 3 running the latest (for that device) iOS 9.5.3 and an official Camera Connection Kit - all fine!

Stock Player - plays all officialy supported formats with no extra features.
foobar2000 - plays almost all formats including HiRes and DSD but resampled to 48kHz (I guess)
Onkyo HF Player - uses its own driver (or whatever it is in iOS) and plays all files in native format or upscaled if you wish to.
HibyMusic - freeware HiRes player that does almost everything Onkyo HF Player does including DSD (DoP). And really works well on iOS.

Tried Samsung S7 (latest official Nougat ROM) with Da2 - all great as well, no issues, no clicking, no buzz, no noise etc... Actually an internal S7's DAC (Cirrus Logic CS47L91 in my case) is quite on a par with Da2 soundwise unlike Note 3s Snapdragon's own solution.

karnana

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Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
« Reply #177 on: 9 Dec 2017, 10:44 am »
Da2 should be fine as well. I'm just being unlucky with a bad quality control of my unit...
I can return/replace it (amazon prime). I will try to open it up to check what's inside... But I have to do something asap because the USB-issue affects my experience with the unit quite badly.Good!
In Onkyo check the DSD512 conversion/upscaling - no need to thank me... ;)
USB Audio Player PRO - try fastseeking any 192kHz 24 bit tracks and report pls.
Neutron - optimal choice indeed, but no upscaling/PCM2DSD
Poweramp - use the latest beta with HD support and report.
HibyMusic - couldn't make it play a thing.In my case the port just not soldered well I guess or way too loose.Thanks! I'm not sure if I really want one. I love how small Da2 is. Not sure if Da3 can prove its superiority in sound quality to justify the switch and additional 50% of Da2 price (I don't need the balance output).
Also please share your experience based on these questions? Thanks.
Usb Audio Player PRO - Fast seeking 192kHz 24 bit works fine
Poweramp - Tried 703 works fine but upsamples :/