GR 12's & NEO-10's?

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AlliumPorrum

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GR 12's & NEO-10's?
« on: 17 Feb 2013, 01:35 pm »
Does anyone have experience on matching GR SW-12-16FR's for basses with NEO-10 for mids? Setup would be a line source dipole, something like 3-4 GR's + maybe ~6 NEO's.

If I have understood correctly, GR's are able to go up to ~200hz. NEO-10's might be able to go a bit below 200hz, at least if maximum SPL is not needed. Anyway, it seems that both of them would be driven close to their limits, so I'm just wondering if it would be a good setup or not? If frequency range is not a problem, would they be a good match to each other sonic wisely?

sl_1800

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Re: GR 12's & NEO-10's?
« Reply #1 on: 17 Feb 2013, 03:03 pm »
Have you seen this post? http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=109918.0 It's a discussion of the Serenity Acoustics Super 7 which uses 2 GR 12's and 4 Neo 10's per speaker.

AlliumPorrum

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Re: GR 12's & NEO-10's?
« Reply #2 on: 17 Feb 2013, 03:43 pm »
Thanks, sl_1800, didn't see that before!

So, if NEO-10's & GR's work so nicely in such a setup, I think that they sould also work fine in a line setup. Any arguments? ;=)

sl_1800

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Re: GR 12's & NEO-10's?
« Reply #3 on: 17 Feb 2013, 03:45 pm »
Danny is actually designing a line source for Serenity using several Neo 10s and several GR 12s.

Danny Richie

Re: GR 12's & NEO-10's?
« Reply #4 on: 17 Feb 2013, 06:20 pm »
There is a full open baffle line source in the works. Pics of the CAD drawings can be seen here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=110891.msg1146282#msg1146282

There will also be a sealed box version as well.

AlliumPorrum

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Re: GR 12's & NEO-10's?
« Reply #5 on: 17 Feb 2013, 06:54 pm »
Well THAT looks great! But maybe a "bit" too expensive for me at the moment...

Do you Danny (or anyone else here) have any experience on the B&G's RD series, like RD-50? Their lowest frequency seems to be 150hz just like with NEO-10's, and the price for two RDs is less than half of 12 NEO's. But are they even close to quality of NEO's, if used as a midrange?


Danny Richie

Re: GR 12's & NEO-10's?
« Reply #6 on: 17 Feb 2013, 08:07 pm »
Well THAT looks great! But maybe a "bit" too expensive for me at the moment...

Do you Danny (or anyone else here) have any experience on the B&G's RD series, like RD-50? Their lowest frequency seems to be 150hz just like with NEO-10's, and the price for two RDs is less than half of 12 NEO's. But are they even close to quality of NEO's, if used as a midrange?

They are not to the same quality level as the Neo 10's.  They are less dynamic and less detailed. Also the sensitivity is very low on the RD drivers. And I think around 300Hz is the limit of their range. So they don't quite cover all of the mid range.

AlliumPorrum

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Re: GR 12's & NEO-10's?
« Reply #7 on: 21 Feb 2013, 05:03 pm »
Well I can understand that they are quite not as good as a line of NEO's surely, but how would you rate them over all for the lower range? I mean, are they worth their price, and how do they compare to other mid drivers on the same price range? Or compared to the commercial planars like Magneplanar?

Danny Richie

Re: GR 12's & NEO-10's?
« Reply #8 on: 21 Feb 2013, 06:16 pm »
Well I can understand that they are quite not as good as a line of NEO's surely, but how would you rate them over all for the lower range? I mean, are they worth their price, and how do they compare to other mid drivers on the same price range? Or compared to the commercial planars like Magneplanar?

They don't sound bad at all. If they played down to around 150Hz or so then they would be far more usable. With them really not being able to cover all of the mid-range then they really need to be crossed just above that range. Somewhere in the 850Hz to 1kHz range will work fine. But then you need a line of small woofers to go with it, and finding a line of small woofers that will match 85db sensitivity is not happening.

AlliumPorrum

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Re: GR 12's & NEO-10's?
« Reply #9 on: 21 Feb 2013, 06:34 pm »

Danny Richie

Re: GR 12's & NEO-10's?
« Reply #10 on: 21 Feb 2013, 06:39 pm »
In fact, Parts Express states that RD's would go down to 150hz, just like NEO-10's: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=264-702&utm_campaign=bazaarvoice&utm_medium=SearchVoice&utm_source=AskAndAnswer&utm_content=Default

???

Yeah, that is really optimistic and depends on a wide baffle width.

AlliumPorrum

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Re: GR 12's & NEO-10's?
« Reply #11 on: 21 Feb 2013, 08:55 pm »
How about the 200hz that is mentioned to be the upper limit for GR 12's? Is it really so, and isn't for example 300hz possible at all? Does it matter if there is 1 GR, or 3-4 on a line?

Danny Richie

Re: GR 12's & NEO-10's?
« Reply #12 on: 21 Feb 2013, 08:59 pm »
How about the 200hz that is mentioned to be the upper limit for GR 12's? Is it really so, and isn't for example 300hz possible at all? Does it matter if there is 1 GR, or 3-4 on a line?

Just by turning up the crossover dial on the A370PEQ amp you can push the crossover point of the SW-12-16FR's up to 300Hz.

The woofers were designed to be used with two or three units on each amp.

AlliumPorrum

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Re: GR 12's & NEO-10's?
« Reply #13 on: 22 Feb 2013, 07:23 am »
Ok, so they CAN go up to 300hz. But are they really GOOD for that?

Danny Richie

Re: GR 12's & NEO-10's?
« Reply #14 on: 22 Feb 2013, 04:17 pm »
Ok, so they CAN go up to 300hz. But are they really GOOD for that?

I don't think there is any problem crossing them over at 300Hz.

AlliumPorrum

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Re: GR 12's & NEO-10's?
« Reply #15 on: 22 Feb 2013, 04:36 pm »
Thanks for the information Danny!

Do you have any suggestion; what would be the best crossover frequency between SW-12-16FR's and line on NEO-10's?

Danny Richie

Re: GR 12's & NEO-10's?
« Reply #16 on: 22 Feb 2013, 04:55 pm »
Thanks for the information Danny!

Do you have any suggestion; what would be the best crossover frequency between SW-12-16FR's and line on NEO-10's?

In the Super-7 that I designed for Serenity Acoustics the crossover point between the Neo 10's and SW-12-16FR's falls in the 200Hz range.

AlliumPorrum

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Re: GR 12's & NEO-10's?
« Reply #17 on: 27 Apr 2013, 09:19 am »
Does anyone have experience on those 8" GR servos on an open baffle setup? That would be something like 6 of them in a line. Are they able to produce "enough" bass, since OB setup seems to need quite a lot of surface area anyway?

I'm still a bit concerned that how quite large & heavy 12's are able to match the speed of B&G's mids, and how well they do integrate... Haven't heard them anyway, this is just a thought if the 8's might be better than 12's?
« Last Edit: 27 Apr 2013, 11:31 am by AlliumPorrum »

Danny Richie

Re: GR 12's & NEO-10's?
« Reply #18 on: 27 Apr 2013, 01:50 pm »
Quote
Does anyone have experience on those 8" GR servos on an open baffle setup?

Yep.

Quote
That would be something like 6 of them in a line. Are they able to produce "enough" bass, since OB setup seems to need quite a lot of surface area anyway?

That would have quite a bit of output.

Quote
I'm still a bit concerned that how quite large & heavy 12's are able to match the speed of B&G's mids,

Servo control man. There is nothing faster.

Quote
and how well they do integrate... Haven't heard them anyway, this is just a thought if the 8's might be better than 12's?

Both are very good.

SoCalWJS

Re: GR 12's & NEO-10's?
« Reply #19 on: 27 Apr 2013, 02:00 pm »
Does anyone have experience on those 8" GR servos on an open baffle setup? That would be something like 6 of them in a line. Are they able to produce "enough" bass, since OB setup seems to need quite a lot of surface area anyway?

I'm still a bit concerned that how quite large & heavy 12's are able to match the speed of B&G's mids, and how well they do integrate... Haven't heard them anyway, this is just a thought if the 8's might be better than 12's?
The Serenity Super 7's have the 12" OB Servo Woofers mated with the Neo 10's (and 3).

IMHO, they match up really well. Didn't notice any "speed" issues with the bass at all. Best of both (all?) worlds. Transparent mid's and highs along with the famous OB 12" Servo woof's  :thumb:

What's not to like?  :green:

Danny matched them up very well with the Super 7's. There are (apparently) many issues that need to be addressed in the design stages or there will be an uneven response.