[SoCalWJS]

I've been fiddling around with MANY things on my setup trying to improve the sound with respect to soundstage (OK), focus (OK), depth (meh), and overall response (fair). Finally decided to change the crossover setting from the factory setting to "large".

......wow...

I mean WOW!!!!!!!

OK, things changed drastically. The most obvious thing is frequency response - Pete Belassco's Deeper now HITS the low notes in the room - easily.

Soundstage depth DISAPPEARED. Aggggghhhhhhhhhhh!

System for two channel is Oppo-95, Modwright LS100 (tubes rolled). Emotina XPA-1's, feeding LS-6'es with Platinum Sonicap upgrades. Mix of interconnects/speaker wire (Emotiva and Monster) (2 GIK 242 Absorbors, angled bookcases in the coners with stuffing behind, and Polyfill in the front wall upper corners)

Does this mean I need MORE bass treatment????

[Danny Richie]

A couple of things.

One, post pics of your room.

Secondly, from what I have been told by some of the amplifier guru's is that the Emotiva gear is well designed but built to hit a low price point. So the parts quality is not exactly top notch. I hear that upgrading the parts quality on some of that gear goes a long way. That could be holding the system back a little.

[morganc]

I would also say the weak link out of all of your nice gear is the amplifier.  I don't think Emotiva is known for Soundstage and Imaging, but I bet someone on this thread could recommend an amp that would pair well with your system.   

[SoCalWJS]

Yeah, it's probabably not the best amp - just trying to figure out why there was depth before, but it got reduced by changing the internal crossover settings on the speakers.

[Danny Richie]

If the only thing that changed was the bass management settings and your depth of sound stage got worse then that shows a clear room related effect going on. You now have more standing wave type bass energy. And the bass management system doesn't effect the extreme bottom end. Below 35Hz is not effected by the adjustments that you made. So Pete's Deeper track should have gone just as low before. If it sounds deeper now then you surely picked up some room gains just above 35Hz.

Post room pics.

[morganc]

Yeah, it's probabably not the best amp - just trying to figure out why there was depth before, but it got reduced by changing the internal crossover settings on the speakers.

Oh I see.   I mis read your initial post.   

[mojave]

We have used Deeper by Pete Belasco at our last two subwoofer GTG's. Here is a maximum output chart taken digitally straight from the CD showing at what frequency the low bass notes are located. The lowest note is about 25-26 Hz.

[SoCalWJS]

I posted some pictures earlier in Dave's forum - here are a couple (Please be merciful - the room is a mess and in a constant state of change).
It is NOT a dedicated room. Anne and I talk about an addition that would include a dual purpose room (combined HT with an eye towards 2 channel). The room measures roughly 17'6" x 15'6", with a cathedral ceiling that is lowest at the front wall (behind the speakers) at 8 feet and tallest at the back - 12'. The back wall drops back down to about 6', then opens to the lower floor great room, so it is nowhere near a sealed room. There is a sliding glass door to a balcony on the left side, and a sliding closet door on the right side. Both of these are covered by medium/heavy curtains. The opening at the rear of the room is also closed of by curtains. I have GIK 242's for the first side wall reflection points, and I have angled my DVD/Blu-ray cases along the front wall/corners, filling the space behind with blankets and pillows. There are also now temporary ceiling corner traps at the front wall corners that are stuffed with polyfil.
Overall showing the front wall (camera not wide angle enough)

Front left corner:


Yes, the cat immediately found a new napping spot
Front right corner:



(gotta convince  somebody in the house that hoarding is a bad thing......

[signatureaudiolabs]

Yes, the cat immediately found a new napping spot

I think we found your problem 

[Cheeseboy]

Jeesh, Everybody knows the Cat Trap goes right behind your Class A amp.

[nickd]

Time to measure from the listening seat. You need need to know if you have peaks or dips big or small. Then start moving things around & tweeking your traps and bass management settings.

That celing may be giving you some trouble.

[freerider]

I'm no expert, but the CD racks might to be akin to just having a wall there.  Solid and dense.  This is not the recommended setup for LS6's, which require a good 5-6 feet from walls.  (I know, my setup is a major violator of this law)

Wouldn't it help to move those cd racks out from behind the LS6's, and put some traps in the corners of the room?

[SoCalWJS]

Time to measure from the listening seat. You need need to know if you have peaks or dips big or small. Then start moving things around & tweeking your traps and bass management settings.

That celing may be giving you some trouble.

I'm not sure about the cathedral ceiling either. I've talked to several different people and gotten a wide variety of answers: Not that big of a deal; treat with absorption; and use diffusors. 
Since it is a solid wood ceiling, I'd like to do the correct thing first so I don't leave a bunch of holes where I removed the first effort.

[Cheeseboy]

 Lose the CD jewel cases.  Install more Cats.

This would be step one for me.

Get those CD's out of the jewel cases and into cd books.  One for Jazz, One for rock and one for everything else.  200 cd's per book.  Then you can lose the shelves all together.  How many cd's do you have?  600?

I put a little alpha sticky tab so I can find stuff.  I have a "Favorites" cd book as well.  It is a 50 cd case.  File all of the liner notes in a drawer.  You will eventually download them all into a media tank anyway. 

[Cheeseboy]

I'm not sure about the cathedral ceiling either. I've talked to several different people and gotten a wide variety of answers: Not that big of a deal; treat with absorption; and use diffusors. 
Since it is a solid wood ceiling, I'd like to do the correct thing first so I don't leave a bunch of holes where I removed the first effort.

I have the same type of sloped ceiling. It was a problem for the Point Source speakers but significantly less of a problem for the Line Source.   

[SoCalWJS]

I'm no expert, but the CD racks might to be akin to just having a wall there.  Solid and dense.  This is not the recommended setup for LS6's, which require a good 5-6 feet from walls.  (I know, my setup is a major violator of this law)

Wouldn't it help to move those cd racks out from behind the LS6's, and put some traps in the corners of the room?

I moved the cabinets after a chat with Dave at RMAF. They are NOT super solid - leftovers from our early days when we were starting out - I think they were like $60/each if I remember correctly. They have that super thin back panel. If anything, I would think that they might vibrate, but it is packed so tightly with DVD's on the shelves and padding behind, that I don't think it's a problem. The speakers are actually about 35" out from the front wall. Trying to figure out if I want to pull everything out from behind and put a piece of OC702 right behind the book cases and then custom fit triangles of something (OC702?) behind the panel all the way to the top.
Also, I have absolutely no place else in the entire house to put the bookcases.

[SoCalWJS]

Lose the CD jewel cases.  Install more Cats.

This would be step one for me.

Get those CD's out of the jewel cases and into cd books.  One for Jazz, One for rock and one for everything else.  200 cd's per book.  Then you can lose the shelves all together.  How many cd's do you have?  600?

I put a little alpha sticky tab so I can find stuff.  I have a "Favorites" cd book as well.  It is a 50 cd case.  File all of the liner notes in a drawer.  You will eventually download them all into a media tank anyway.

It's actually almost all DVD's with a few Blu-rays thrown in for good measure. Somewhere under 500 on the 2 cases - CD's are in a side alcove.

[Rclark]

You have Emotiva XPA-1's? I would kill for those. Those are the big statement monoblocks, $1000 each, I doubt they are causing you SQ problems.

They actually have a pretty solid rep for amps.

[SoCalWJS]

Jeesh, Everybody knows the Cat Trap goes right behind your Class A amp.

""Beast" goes just about wherever he wants. About 1 1/2 years old - raised him from approximately 8-10 days old after a citizen brought it into the PD lobby. This lady was in tears saying the mother had abondoned the kittens (2 of them). Said there was no way she had the time to dropper feed them. I took one and a Dispatcher took the other.
It's tough for me to get real angry at him at this point. Guess where his favorite sleeping place used to be? On top of the Lex MC-12.

[SoCalWJS]

You have Emotiva XPA-1's? I would kill for those. Those are the big statement monoblocks, $1000 each, I doubt they are causing you SQ problems.

They actually have a pretty solid rep for amps.

Yup, XPA-1's. Always wanted to have mono blocks. BIG, MANLY MONOBLOCKS (wish they were Manley monoblocks  )
They are great with respect to effortless power. Great bass.

Soundstage........... The jury is out at my house, but I have HUGE room issues to try to overcome.