[zoom25]

Krutsch - Any further improvements on Roon's SQ?

To James and others: Is there a way I can take an ethernet cable and connect it directly from my iMac's ethernet port to BDP-1's ethernet port directly and make it work?

I previously used a Powerline adaptor as the room was quite far from the modem/router. So then I switched over to an offline/closed router setup. It's good enough for Manic Moose control, but no internet radio or any such thing.

It looks like iMac -> Cisco Router -> BDP-1.

Again, the Cisco Router doesn't have internet on it. It's just it's own thing.

[Krutsch]

Krutsch - Any further improvements on Roon's SQ?

...

I abandoned TIDAL in favor of Spotify. My wife, daughter and I have our own accounts and for 14.95/month we all get premium. Spotify's playlists are user curated and they wipe the floor with TIDAL's editorial staff curated playlists, so I canceled my TIDAL account.

I have Sonos speakers sprinkled throughout my house and that's what my family uses - they want me to keep my audiophile nonsense on my desk and away from them. Spotify Connect w/ their app into the Sonos speakers is great user experience.

Without TIDAL, Roon lost a lot of its shine for me. I am tired correcting tagging differences between my library and Roon's use of AllMusic.com's database. I am also sick of Roon's "Paw Masher" UI - I was vocal about this on their user forums, even triggering the moderators to run a poll to see who else wanted a change made to the playback UI. Fully half of their user base hates the Paw Masher, but they won't change anything.

Anyway... I am enjoying saving $20/month from TIDAL + $100/year from Roon.

I am exclusively using MPD playback on the BDP-1 w/ Soundirok. With USB sticks holding my entire FLAC library, it's the best sound, IMO.

For streaming services, I have a Sonos Connect sitting on top of my BDP-1 that runs through a Wyred4Sound Remedy to clean-up the S/PDIF TOSLINK output into my DAC.

Honestly, 320 Mbps Ogg files from Spotify sound just great for previewing new music and if I really like something, I buy/rip the CD or download from HDTracks. Same with Amazon Prime music and Sirius XM streaming.

Sorry for the TL;DR response...

[zoom25]

I abandoned TIDAL in favor of Spotify. My wife, daughter and I have our own accounts and for 14.95/month we all get premium. Spotify's playlists are user curated and they wipe the floor with TIDAL's editorial staff curated playlists, so I canceled my TIDAL account.

I feel the same way about TIDAL every time I tried it. I've had Spotify Premium for a few years and will be sticking with that. I also find their playlists or other users playlist to work very well with my taste. It makes sense and doesn't give me any problems on iOS or Mac.

I have Sonos speakers sprinkled throughout my house and that's what my family uses - they want me to keep my audiophile nonsense on my desk and away from them. Spotify Connect w/ their app into the Sonos speakers is great user experience.

I hear you on the family wanting to keep the audio stuff away. They have never been remotely interested in headphones. Built in speakers on most devices is fine. Although, they do enjoy the HR 824 Mk1s in a midfield setup for the basement setup. It can get loud and can go deep. Plus, it has limiters so I don't have to worry too much. I feed it via Emotiva DC-1 and have kept it around because they have finally figured out how to use the remote. It's a convenient setup. I keep the Amphion and Bryston gear for myself at the desktop.

I think you should seriously consider a pair of nearfields. Something like a 5-6 inch that won't be too problematic acoustically and can play quite well at low levels without needing to be put too apart. Doesn't headphone get fatiguing after a while?

Without TIDAL, Roon lost a lot of its shine for me. I am tired correcting tagging differences between my library and Roon's use of AllMusic.com's database. I am also sick of Roon's "Paw Masher" UI - I was vocal about this on their user forums, even triggering the moderators to run a poll to see who else wanted a change made to the playback UI. Fully half of their user base hates the Paw Masher, but they won't change anything.

Anyway... I am enjoying saving $20/month from TIDAL + $100/year from Roon.

I went on their site after a long time and it was the same stuff. Sound quality differences between Roon and JRiver/Amarra/Audirvana Plus. I don't think the issues have been fully ironed out yet?

I am exclusively using MPD playback on the BDP-1 w/ Soundirok. With USB sticks holding my entire FLAC library, it's the best sound, IMO.

I am going to give FLAC another shot, especially in streaming from router or even with attached storage, but this time will try to compress it as much as possible. I have more tests to run on BDP and my 2009 iMac and my Retina SSD i7 Macbook Pro. The results between compressed FLAC vs. WAV/AIFF can be different based on CPU decoding of FLAC, but larger size and IO of WAV. It is possible that a particular computer might benefit from one format over the other. There seems to be a tradeoff going on there, perhaps even sonically. There is some information out there, but you definitely have to sort through the same-old regurgitated dialogue.

I bought Soundirok last night. I have to figure out how to set that up with either WAV/AIFF/FLAC. One thing I'm happy that I'm certain about is that I am not going to be using ALAC.

Either with software or hardware going forward, I'm definitely going to try to keep things as simple as possible.



For streaming services, I have a Sonos Connect sitting on top of my BDP-1 that runs through a Wyred4Sound Remedy to clean-up the S/PDIF TOSLINK output into my DAC.

Honestly, 320 Mbps Ogg files from Spotify sound just great for previewing new music and if I really like something, I buy/rip the CD or download from HDTracks. Same with Amazon Prime music and Sirius XM streaming.

Sorry for the TL;DR response...

Spotify is the best for previewing. I'll often put playlists or albums in offline and listen when out. Honestly, as much as I get picky about SQ, when I know I'm not after the best possible SQ, Spotify is just fine to get lost with in the music. The only problem I've run into is that same albums are only available in remastered or reissues and they can be compressed and loud sounding.

[Phil]

I'm trying out Tidal HiFi from within Roon on a BPD-1, which feeds a PS Audio DirectStream DAC. 

Should the "passthrough MQA" be checked or not?  The streaming "quality" is set at HiFi/Masters. 

Only asking because while ripped music sounds great via Roon to the BDP, Tidal is kind of underwhelming (given all the hype). 

Thanks. 

[Krutsch]

I abandoned TIDAL in favor of Spotify. My wife, daughter and I have our own accounts and for 14.95/month we all get premium. Spotify's playlists are user curated and they wipe the floor with TIDAL's editorial staff curated playlists, so I canceled my TIDAL account.

...

Without TIDAL, Roon lost a lot of its shine for me. I am tired correcting tagging differences between my library and Roon's use of the AllMusic's database. I am also sick of Roon's "Paw Masher" UI - I was vocal about this on their user forums, even triggering the moderators to run a poll to see who else wanted a change made to the playback UI. Fully half of their user base hates the Paw Masher, but they won't change anything.

...

Well, what a difference a couple of months makes. My cell provider (Sprint) invested in TIDAL and offered their customers a free 6 month subscription. So, I signed back-up with TIDAL ...and... Roon (free trial).

Roon has fixed the Paw Masher nonsense, based on the poll    ...and the new UI is really quite an improvement. The other thing Roon did was offer fine grained control over how your library is imported/indexed into Roon's database. So, you don't have to fight with AllMusic.com's database on what genre or cover art should be used for your carefully tagged albums.

Anyway, worlds of difference with the latest version of Roon, with respect to flexibility and usability. And, of course, it sounds great with the BDP-1 in Roon Ready mode.

[zoom25]

I'm on Roon trial again. 60 days and counting down. Really looking forward to trying it with the BDP-1 via the upcoming USB Wifi Dongle. I hope I can get it before I run out.

Roon Ready with iMac and powerline adapters is a step below what I'm used to with MPD + external powered drive + Jitterbug. I want to try and filter the wifi dongle with the Jitterbug.

I can only think that the way my network is setup and use of the powerline adapters is messing with the sound. No dropouts or anything like that. Solid connection. Although, I think it sounds better than previous times. Hard to remember though.

I would really like to use Roon. It makes it so much easier and funner to connect with the music.

[James Tanner]

Hi Folks,

For those using ROON with their Bryston BDP Digital players we will be showing how the BDP will integrate with such products as Crestron, Control4 and Remote Technologies Incorporated.

Come say hello at Booth 5803 if you are attending CEDIA 2017.

[Marius]

Roon has fixed the Paw Masher nonsense, based on the poll    ...and the new UI is really quite an improvement. The other thing Roon did was offer fine grained control over how your library is imported/indexed into Roon's database. So, you don't have to fight with AllMusic.com's database on what genre or cover art should be used for your carefully tagged albums.

Anyway, worlds of difference with the latest version of Roon, with respect to flexibility and usability. And, of course, it sounds great with the BDP-1 in Roon Ready mode.

Sounds great, love to check the latest version. Is there a version history somewhere on the Roon site? Ive checked but can't find it, and no announcement of the features you mention unfortunately. Never really worked out this Paw Masher issue, other than Roon needing extra clicks for simply playing a file?


Cheers,
Marius

[James Tanner]

Hi Folks,

This new ROON feature is for those of you installing whole home audio systems who need integrated control over each zone and can take advantage of ROON's new partnerships with control companies to install Bryston BDPs in some of those zones so you can have bit perfect high resolution sound in key zones while you continue to use less quality audio elsewhere in the house.

Roon leverages their unique software and our Bryston world class hardware (BDP) to enable whole home audio with a single library with multiple streams in multiple zones using a wide variety of hardware ranging from inexpensive typical systems like Sonos for non sound quality critical rooms to world class audio oasis built with Bryston.

Gary Dayton
Bryston Ltd.

[zoom25]

UPDATE

Software - Feels more intuitive to use than last year and the organization and music continuation has also improved. Clicking on tracks in the lists and getting subsequent tracks to automatically add to the list finally works like I want it to. WIN.

Hardware - I initially added both my BDP-1 and my DAC directly into the same zones. That way I could toggle with USB for iMac and AES for BDP-1 on the Dangerous Source. This was with Powerline adapter feeding BDP-1. It sounded bad, infact slightly worse than the USB output from the iMac that was running the Core. Certainly worse than MPD.

So I moved the BDP-1 and my Dangerous Source with it's LPS to the room with the modem/router and connected it directly to the BDP-1. Took my HD 800 with it. The iMac with Core was still in another room and sending via Wifi. FINALLY, Roon sounded amazing. It was perfect. It was sounding better than MPD with the portable drive connected to it. Although, I feel if I used MPD with NAS and no drives attached, it would sound equal.

Conclusions

- Roon is amazing when done right. Miles ahead of Manic Moose.

- The BDP-1 doesn't care if it's plugged into the Torus or the wall or even a cheap strip with a bunch of switching supplies next to it.

- The BDP-1 is ABSOLUTELY hyper sensitive to what it's fed with. It's super sensitive to the types of media storage (hard drives portable and external, quality of ethernet) and/or current draw.

- I think BDP-1 is at its best when used with good ethernet. No drives attached to it directly. Although, USB hubs can improve this with tweaking, but still can get costly and the end game might not be there even after.

- Powerline adapters SUCK! Do not let these things make direct contact with the BDP-1.


Help Needed!

Running ethernet to the room would obviously be the best method to fix my current problem. However, that seems unlikely for now. So I'm thinking for now adding those fiber media converters that go ethernet -> optical -> ethernet. Anyone have experiences with those in either the BDP-1 or other rigs?

James, will the BDP-1 have any problems with these converters? Any compatibility issues I should look out for? No problem with using the Gigabit models with the BDP-1, or do I have to look specifically for the 10/100?

Next up, thinking of getting rid of the Powerline adapters and instead getting some kind of wireless bridge or access point that can feed those fiber converters and possibly the iMac. These Powerline adapters make an annoying high frequency whine. Any recommendation on models for either the media fiber or wireless bridge?

Thanks!

[James Tanner]

James, will the BDP-1 have any problems with these converters? Any compatibility issues I should look out for? No problem with using the Gigabit models with the BDP-1, or do I have to look specifically for the 10/100?

Thats a Chris question for sure.

james

[zoom25]

James, will the BDP-1 have any problems with these converters? Any compatibility issues I should look out for? No problem with using the Gigabit models with the BDP-1, or do I have to look specifically for the 10/100?

Thats a Chris question for sure.

james

Please let him know. I might even try today to get something if he can get back.

Also, Chris, if you know of a decent wireless bridge / access point that can receive WIFI and output ethernet connection, I'd love to know. My modem/router is class AC and runs both 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz. I figured I'd ask Bryston since you guys are local. I'm in Mississauga. Thanks.

[Pundamilia]

You shouldn't use such a broad brush to paint Powerline adapters as useless.

The Powerline adapters CAN be useful depending on how you use them. If you use them to feed the source signal (content) via a LAN from a computer or NAS, you may experience issues depending on the bandwidth of the adapters or the performance of your network. Certainly, using hardwired Ethernet is a way better route, but not always practical. Given a robust, high-performance network or a completely wired network, NAS is an ideal solution for feeding content to the BDP. In the real world, that's not always feasible and you may have to connect your source to the BDP locally.

On the other hand, if the content IS locally attached to the BDP (internal or external) and you only use the Powerline adapters to CONTROL it, the performance can be quite acceptable. You do get the odd hiccup, but if running cable (electrical or optical) directly is not an option then the Powerlines can be used to solve this problem.

[zoom25]

You shouldn't use such a broad brush to paint Powerline adapters as useless.

The Powerline adapters CAN be useful depending on how you use them. If you use them to feed the source signal (content) via a LAN from a computer or NAS, you may experience issues depending on the bandwidth of the adapters or the performance of your network. Certainly, using hardwired Ethernet is a way better route, but not always practical. Given a robust, high-performance network or a completely wired network, NAS is an ideal solution for feeding content to the BDP. In the real world, that's not always feasible and you may have to connect your source to the BDP locally.

On the other hand, if the content IS locally attached to the BDP (internal or external) and you only use the Powerline adapters to CONTROL it, the performance can be quite acceptable. You do get the odd hiccup, but if running cable (electrical or optical) directly is not an option then the Powerlines can be used to solve this problem.

I didn't say they are useless. They just kinda suck.

I've used it both to transmit data to the BDP-1 like Roon, and even used it previously to control the BDP-1 and its locally attached storage. Speed has never been the problem in either use. I can do 24 bit WAVs with no problem. The problem has always been the noise. They mess with other devices like my Macbook Pro and when I'm using sensitive single ended phones straight out the headphone jack. You can hear the noise on the headphones without any music playing. Unplug the adapters, and the noise is gone. I'm roughly 6-8 feet away from the Powerline adapter.

So they are useful, but not without consequences.

[James Tanner]

Setup at 2017 CEDIA with ROON

[zoom25]

UPDATE x 2

Got rid of the Powerlines completely. That's done with for now. Found another solution and perhaps improved upon it.

First - The goal was to only connect the BDP-1 with the iMac. I used the spare Linksys E3000 as an access point. I don't need internet on it, so all I had plugged into it was the iMac and BDP-1. I disabled all its wireless stuff and additional media storage stuff. It sounded good, but it still felt like it wasn't quite as good as the sound I had when I had it connected to the other newer router in the non-audio room that I mentioned previously. The margin was small so it could easily be in my head. Still much better than ethernet adapters.

Improvement - I added a D-Link DGS-1005 Gigabit switch that I had lying around to the router. Nothing else connected to the router, only the switch. I then connected both the iMac and BDP-1 to that switch. This way the data did not have to pass through the router at all. I even confirmed it by removing the router and it was all working on its own. It sounded more relaxed this way and holographic like MPD with hard drives at its best and perhaps even improved. It feels there is less top end extension and air right now in comparison to any MPD configurations or with the router. However, this is more relaxing and involving than before. It immediately clicked. No sizzle to the sound. Perhaps that was just noise. The vocals are very liquid like.

No need for optical isolation. Don't have to worry about media storages and USBs and hubs.

I'd recommend trying this method if you have Roon or didn't like Roon the first around because it didn't sound like MPD. There were lot of comments like that last year, including from me. Disable everything on BDP except for Roon and make sure there is nothing connected to the BDP-1's ports. I got the idea from a couple of other forums. More discussion on Computer Audiophile, but there was this one discussion on PS Audio forum and it was very similar to Bryston BDP's context.

Next step: This switch is plastic and wasn't bought with audio in mind. I might consider getting a metal one and/or a LPS for the switch (either the new or existing). There are some "high-end" switches like from Aqvox that pay attention to the insides, but I'm trying to maximize everything to a reasonable point for cheap.

[zoom25]

I tried to emulate the Sonarworks EQ for HD 800 for Roon a few weeks back. I felt it was a good starting point and that I'd tweak it over time. It's actually working out nicely. Haven't felt the need to tweak it. Although, I'm sure it can be made better. Make sure to reduce the gain at the bottom. Enjoy.

[Salakavald]

Hi,

I have bp-26 with internal dac and 4b3 and I would like to know:

If I am using mainly Spotify/Tidal, does my sound quality improve 1) just with bdp-3 and secondly 2) together with bda-3?

I think my internal dac can handle 96/24 bit resolution.

Thanks!

[TJ-Sully]

Hi Salakavald, the answer is yes. I would start with the DAC. Then the player.
I also have an internal DAC in my BP25. when i integrated a BDA2 into the system, the improvement was immediately evident. night and day difference.  hope this helps. TJ

[Salakavald]

Thank You TJ-Sully!