BDA-3 DAC

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CanadianMaestro

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Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #820 on: 8 Aug 2017, 06:38 pm »
I sometimes hook up my good lady's Macbook to the Bryston to play MQA.....

So is MQA as good as it's raved to be?

Syncytial

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Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #821 on: 8 Aug 2017, 07:13 pm »
Hi!

Do you mean to say the Oppo's analog output sounds better than the Sony's analog output?

Cheers!
Antun

;)

While it's true that the Oppo analogue output sounds better than the inexpensive Sony's, the comparison was between the Sony's output via HDMI @ 176k4 vs the Oppo's analogue output, as I had already determined the Oppo's internal conversion was better than its downconverted bitstream over HDMI @ 88k2. I did not compare the Oppo HDMI (88k2) directly to the Sony HDMI (176k4). Oppo has stated that they chose 88k2 for better sound.

I have duplicate copies of some SACDs and was able to compare sync'd playback from the same transport via the internal DAC vs HDMI as well as switching between players. I also did some long-form listening.

The HDMI comparison is only valid in my system, with my current DAC. Introducing a BDA-3 could change the outcome. Audio quality with a BDA-3 would have to consider DSD over HDMI, downconverted PCM over HDMI,PCM over SPDIF, as well as the impact of the quality of the transport.


Syncytial.


Syncytial

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Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #822 on: 8 Aug 2017, 07:35 pm »
The pops have been reduced quite a bit by having the latest firmware on the Bryston.

The issue is at the Oppo end and they aren't interested in addressing it. It comes from the other HDMI port and I think because I have a Sony Android TV the HDMI signal is always checking and dropping-this causes sometimes a delay in the audio HDMI port. How do I know? Because when I unplug the HDMI to my TV there is never an issue.  It also does the strange thing if you put it onto Pure Audio on the Oppo-which cuts out all video circuitry-and puts the display off-the interface between my Sony TV/Oppo will actually put it back on again itself and eventually cause a pop. My previous Sony TV never did this so there is something about how the Oppo and my TV talk to each other. It's not a big issue now since I know how to solve it.

I sometimes hook up my good lady's Macbook to the Bryston to play MQA via Tidal as well.

Ahhhh.... it's the horrors of HDMI, and the tendency for some manufacturers to poll the HDMI bus periodically even if the target device is "off" (which is really a "standby" state), which triggers a renegotiation. While that's undoubtedly frustrating, it can be managed and doesn't stem from a fundamental flaw in the BDA-3 or the Oppo in transporting DSD over HDMI. It could be a poor implementation in the Oppo, the Sony, or both. I assume you've disabled whatever Sony calls CEC etc. and checked to see if different HDMI inputs on the Sony require individual configuration or have different characteristics. Did I suggest HDMI is grossly flawed yet? ;)


Syncytial.


James Tanner

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Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #823 on: 9 Aug 2017, 11:03 am »
In this Month's Issue of Absolute Sound Magazine

Bryston BDA-3 DAC





Marius

Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #824 on: 9 Aug 2017, 12:57 pm »
The pops have been reduced quite a bit by having the latest firmware on the Bryston.

The issue is at the Oppo end and they aren't interested in addressing it. It comes from the other HDMI port and I think because I have a Sony Android TV the HDMI signal is always checking and dropping-this causes sometimes a delay in the audio HDMI port. How do I know? Because when I unplug the HDMI to my TV there is never an issue.  It also does the strange thing if you put it onto Pure Audio on the Oppo-which cuts out all video circuitry-and puts the display off-the interface between my Sony TV/Oppo will actually put it back on again itself and eventually cause a pop. My previous Sony TV never did this so there is something about how the Oppo and my TV talk to each other. It's not a big issue now since I know how to solve it.

I sometimes hook up my good lady's Macbook to the Bryston to play MQA via Tidal as well.


Maybe you did already check, and if so, never mind: In my Marantz there's an option to explicitly turn off this handshaking. Not exactly sure what its called, not at the machine at the moment, but it is indeed an option in the HDMI settings. Experienced the same behavior you mention, and switched that of. It even allowed separate settings for switching on and off.


What worries me is not the switching perse, though obnoxious it is, but the quality of playback it results in. I would really be annoyed to the max if I did decide to buy the BDA3 (obviously the best route to decode these HDMI/BD/SACD signals) and the Oppo 205 (the 'best' audiophile UHD player for the money including an extra nice DAC offering the extra in/outputs next to the BDA#) and finally experience these pops during HDMI playback without being able to do something about that. Horror.


Would hope someone on this board with both machines is able to comfort us on that aspect....


Cheers,
Marius

BSC

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Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #825 on: 9 Aug 2017, 01:54 pm »

Maybe you did already check, and if so, never mind: In my Marantz there's an option to explicitly turn off this handshaking. Not exactly sure what its called, not at the machine at the moment, but it is indeed an option in the HDMI settings. Experienced the same behavior you mention, and switched that of. It even allowed separate settings for switching on and off.


What worries me is not the switching perse, though obnoxious it is, but the quality of playback it results in. I would really be annoyed to the max if I did decide to buy the BDA3 (obviously the best route to decode these HDMI/BD/SACD signals) and the Oppo 205 (the 'best' audiophile UHD player for the money including an extra nice DAC offering the extra in/outputs next to the BDA#) and finally experience these pops during HDMI playback without being able to do something about that. Horror.


Would hope someone on this board with both machines is able to comfort us on that aspect....


Cheers,
Marius

Just to be clear I know  how to solve the issue in my system -I don't get pops because I can stop it at source and by the way it causes drop outs in non-HDMI playback too because the switching interrupts the digital out.

It is also something very clearly related to the Oppo/Sony Android TV interface I never had this issue until I changed TV's-there are a few ways I can stop it.

Whether the 205 would repeat this issue is unknown I still haven't seen a single pairing of a 205 and a Bryston.

The set up of an Oppo due to it's incredible flexibility is a wee bit involved therefore when you add in a DAC and are using different inputs then that factor continues. But once you work your way round it you are set up and it's music time.

The HDMI interface is tricky-Bryston have been excellent in minimising naturally occurring pops because I know the change in firmware removed previous issues not related to my TV one.

Some degree of set up and  troubleshooting has to be a given when you are wanting the versatility of the Oppo/Bryston virtually every existing music format can be used.

Today I have been listening to some Blu Ray audio and indeed SACD and have just been getting lost in the music. The only pop was a bit of Tears For Fears.  :D

soundmax

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Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #826 on: 10 Aug 2017, 07:46 pm »
Hi James,

I was able to confirm today that I have problems with my BDA-3 unit, it doesn't sound as it should... it sound shut-in, veiled, lacks bite and sparkle.
The bass is warm and overall sound is rhytmically slow and unengaging.
Mention: I upgraded also to the latest firmware (2016.05a) - that changes somehow the sound but a very little bit (thanks to Mike Pickett).

How was I able to prove it? I tested in the same system 3 BDA-3 dacs: my unit, a friend one and the dealer's.
I was able to identify clearly (and in front of the dealer) that different BDA-3 revisions sound different.
Still, my unit had the worst sound compared to the others, especially in the midrange.
Speaking about the other 2 units, which were supposed to be good and to sound the same, we still noticed differences, especially in the bass tightness and speed.
From all 3, the latest 2017 revision: well... that one has the "breath of fresh air" as the reviewers say... the best sounding.

So we have the same product model - the latest revision sounds a lot better. I might have a faulty unit...

What can I do now, as I am very unhappy about the situation, could my unit be replaced with the latest 2017 revision?
Dealer says it's difficult to prove that to Bryston...
Here is the picture of the 3 DACs tested.





Thanks.

R. Daneel

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Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #827 on: 11 Aug 2017, 12:05 pm »
@soundmax

Which input did you test this on? USB, HDMI or SPDIF?

James Tanner

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Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #828 on: 11 Aug 2017, 12:25 pm »
Hi James,

I was able to confirm today that I have problems with my BDA-3 unit, it doesn't sound as it should... it sound shut-in, veiled, lacks bite and sparkle.
The bass is warm and overall sound is rhytmically slow and unengaging.
Mention: I upgraded also to the latest firmware (2016.05a) - that changes somehow the sound but a very little bit (thanks to Mike Pickett).

How was I able to prove it? I tested in the same system 3 BDA-3 dacs: my unit, a friend one and the dealer's.
I was able to identify clearly (and in front of the dealer) that different BDA-3 revisions sound different.
Still, my unit had the worst sound compared to the others, especially in the midrange.
Speaking about the other 2 units, which were supposed to be good and to sound the same, we still noticed differences, especially in the bass tightness and speed.
From all 3, the latest 2017 revision: well... that one has the "breath of fresh air" as the reviewers say... the best sounding.

So we have the same product model - the latest revision sounds a lot better. I might have a faulty unit...

What can I do now, as I am very unhappy about the situation, could my unit be replaced with the latest 2017 revision?
Dealer says it's difficult to prove that to Bryston...
Here is the picture of the 3 DACs tested.





Thanks.

I have never heard of this before - all our DACs measure the same.  I would ask the dealer to swap the one you think sounds best with the unit you have.

james


James Tanner

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Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #829 on: 11 Aug 2017, 12:58 pm »
In this Month's Issue of Absolute Sound Magazine

Bryston BDA-3 DAC





Hi Folks,

I have a PDF of the Absolute Sound Review on the BDA-3 DAC.  The review was written about a year ago but is now published.

Favourite Quote:

"Bryston’s BDA-3 DAC surpasses the high-value performance standard set by the BDA-2, enables inexpensive HDMI- equipped disc players to function as premium source components, and adds exceptionally engaging DSD playback to its potent mix of virtues.

I’ve already purchased the review sample"


Email me if you want a copy - jamestanner@bryston.com

james


soundmax

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Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #830 on: 11 Aug 2017, 01:52 pm »
I have never heard of this before - all our DACs measure the same.  I would ask the dealer to swap the one you think sounds best with the unit you have.

james

Hi James,

Things are not so simple because the local dealer doesn't have any bda in stock and he has to order one that he has to pay by himself.
I think Byston should send a replacement for unit 000295 to Avitech Austria and support the costs.
Could you contact them please? I would be happy to receive a newer than serial 000509 which I found fine.

James Tanner

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Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #831 on: 11 Aug 2017, 01:57 pm »
Hi James,

Things are not so simple because the local dealer doesn't have any bda in stock and he has to order one that he has to pay by himself.
I think Byston should send a replacement for unit 000295 to Avitech Austria and support the costs.
Could you contact them please? I would be happy to receive a newer than serial 000509 which I found fine.

Ok speak to Avitech and have them contact Brian Russell.  I not sure it will make a difference though.

james


The Rang

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Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #832 on: 11 Aug 2017, 02:00 pm »
Has anyone tried one of the Cambridge Audio universals (752 or CXU) running DSD into the Bryston?
Any issues? My main concern with many players is: do they really output pure DSD

BSC

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Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #833 on: 11 Aug 2017, 09:27 pm »
So is MQA as good as it's raved to be?

Well I haven't extensively listened to a lot of albums but I tend to go with the opinion based on what I've heard it is very dependent on individual albums and that leads itself into a debate about what source was used.

I would say that for example Rumours by Fleetwood Mac on MQA might well be the best digital version I've heard but on a few others I wasn't noticing too much difference.

Worth noting the BDA-3 isn't totally unfolding the track either.

I remain neutral about the format I get the criticisms but i remain open minded on whether it can be superior.

Xinon

Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #834 on: 12 Aug 2017, 02:27 pm »
Hi James,

Things are not so simple because the local dealer doesn't have any bda in stock and he has to order one that he has to pay by himself.
I think Byston should send a replacement for unit 000295 to Avitech Austria and support the costs.
Could you contact them please? I would be happy to receive a newer than serial 000509 which I found fine.

I have serial 000136.

Has there been any changes to the Bda3, except for firmware upgrades?

James Tanner

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Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #835 on: 12 Aug 2017, 04:41 pm »
I have serial 000136.

Has there been any changes to the Bda3, except for firmware upgrades?

None.

james

Xinon

Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #836 on: 12 Aug 2017, 05:57 pm »
Good to hear.
Mine is certainly not veiled or shut in, rather the opposite.
But overall the Bda1 is not far behind, Im gonna keep it forever, a classic :thumb:
What does the new firmware do, Im on u2015.12a.

CanadianMaestro

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Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #837 on: 12 Aug 2017, 06:29 pm »
But overall the Bda1 is not far behind, Im gonna keep it forever, a classic :thumb:

 :thumb: :thumb: Plus the BDA-1 has a pair each of both BNC and SPDIF. Great for multiple sources, unlike the BDA-3 which lost one of each.  :duh:

Xinon

Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #838 on: 14 Aug 2017, 12:01 pm »
:thumb: :thumb: Plus the BDA-1 has a pair each of both BNC and SPDIF. Great for multiple sources, unlike the BDA-3 which lost one of each.  :duh:

Jup, even though I only use one :green:
How do we update fw on BDA3? I get "file not found".

Marius

Re: BDA-3 DAC
« Reply #839 on: 15 Aug 2017, 07:37 pm »
HI James,


Is there any chance you will produce a BDA3+ which will have the lost SPDIF and Toslink back? Adding the 4 HDMI ports is wonderful , but losing the important SPDIF/Toslink is rather a crucial letdown to be honest.


We might be able to replace the Toslink the HDMI connection but as you yourself have always stated, the HDMI is possibly prone to serious jitter, thus the SPDIF inputs were always preferred. A BDA3 with these inputs reinstated would be a no-brainer.


Other question about HDMI jitter: Oppo state they have solved this by means of a dedicated clock/circuit http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-udp-205/ 


Is the BDA3 also immunized for this HDMI jitter in a comparable, maybe even better way?


Cheers,
Marius