It's been a tough 50 hour wait on my dac10. The feeling is a little mixed now... When I first introduce the dac10 into the system, I was totally disappointed as it is bright to a point I get irritated. ... was told to wait for some time, needs burning in ... Well, after 50 hours, I'm getting used to it or it has improved ... new speakers...
Hi All,
The accuphase is fine driving my lsim705, but after I changed to harbeth 5plus, I have problems at spl above 85db. Thought I would get a bigger accuphase but chance upon Nuprime. Now, the 10 combo will ultimately be brought home to drive my harbeth. I'm working away from home so need to break in the new units in my work place. Brought all the gears except the speakers to work place, but due to human traffic, cannot bring the harbeth. Was using polk rti a1, before the new dali zensor 1 came. Had auditioned them and prefer it to the polks. However the highs at my place is just too much for my ears, to the point of irritating me. Just worried the st10 would be to much of a good thing. I have only about 10 hours or less to run in the systems at work, even less if it's at home. Really a pain to get new gears. Maybe the sta9 may do a better job???
When I first introduce the dac10 into the system, I was totally disappointed as it is bright to a point I get irritated. Wrote in someones thread, and was told to wait for some time, needs burning in.
Well, after 50 hours, I'm getting used to it or it has improved.
Genez,
OTOH power conditioning has proven itself to make a very definite and positive difference in my systems. Having said that, I have no experience with high end audiophile fuses, but I am open to trying them because...
a) they are cheap (at least the ones mentioned above) and
b) with a DAC-9 and STA-9 on the way, I'll try anything to mitigate the break in blues.
The only question is what are the required values for the DAC-9 and STA-9? Given that one is a power amp and the other a DAC, I'll bet they have two different values.
@Tan
...or you can try bi-amping your Harbeths. Use ST-10 for LF and Accuphase for MF/HF. I had wonderfull experience with pairing Yamaha A-S1100 (similar sound signature as Accuphase) and ST-10. Also, if you can, try to avoid complex "Litz wire" type speaker cables.
As always, experiment, trust your ears first and enjoy the music!
Need some assurances that the st10 will not be too bright compared to the accuphase. Thanks.
Hi All,
I'm using the desktop speakers as a means of burning in the dac10. I have only 2 to 3 hours of music time at home, thus need to bring to office to give it more running time. My 5plus, is at home and awaiting my 10 combo. Got my son a ida8/sp one combo and it sounded good out of the box (according to his feedback). Guess I'm expecting too much. Will wait for the st10 to atrive then another painful couple of weeks of torture before audio bliss, I hope. Thanks for all the encouragements and feedback.
@Genez
Benefits (and pitfalls) of bi-amping are widely known concepts better discusses elsewhere.
If speaker manufacturer encourages their users to bi-amp, it is not foolish to experiment with it and test ones ears for any possible sound benefit.
Hi All,
I'm using the desktop speakers as a means of burning in the dac10. I have only 2 to 3 hours of music time at home, thus need to bring to office to give it more running time.
Hi All,
I will keep in mind what's mentioned here and see what will happen. Will be back after the st-10 comes in. Thanks again. LOL about the comment about not being forced to listen, well then I might as well put everything in the storage room, shut it in and let it burn in for a month before bringing it out. Then, there would not be anything to compare, is there????? :-(
Hi All,
Interesting pointers raised here. Will allow the dac to "run" without the amp. Fuse, not tried but may try. Bi-amp, no, unless I invest in another gear - some external cross over. There is no benefits in bi-amping. Tried and could not hear any difference. Cables, am using reasonable quality interconnects, speaker, usb, optical and digital coaxial cables. I apportioned at least 15% budget on cables. Not including room treatment at home. Thanks for all the feedback. Will come back if I get any improvements. Hope i'm still sane then.
...People at audio factories rarely bother with this....I wonder why! :scratch: You do know that at that point the current is still AC, meaning that it will flow in both directions!!! So, let's assume that the fuse is directional: it would allow flow in one direction and block it in the other. So, if you have current to the device, and you have a'directional' fuse, reverting it will mean you will get no current.
Reversing a fuse does not change the hot and neutral wiring orientation.
Question for DAC10 owners: I have been researching the DAC10 and it looks like a fantastically flexible solution as the centerpiece of a digital-only audio rig. I love the way they implemented the volume control on this. However, I have one issue: this uses a SABRE DAC chip (9018, correct?). I have rarely liked most SABRE implementations -- I had heard that it is non-trivial to get the best out of the architecture. It's not a chip you can just "drop in" a board and expect great results. Yes, I know that few chips are, but my impression is that SABRE is harder than others. I have heard a couple SABRE DACs that I liked, but most of them are for bigger $$$ than the NuPrime.
So, the question: has the DAC10 really eliminated the "SABRE glare" that plagues many other implementations? It doesn't have a steely or hard upper midrange/treble? Would like to hear one of these before taking the plunge. Is there anyone in the Chicago area that has one of these and would be willing to host a short listening session?
Thanks, -dB
I wonder why! :scratch: You do know that at that point the current is still AC, meaning that it will flow in both directions!!! So, let's assume that the fuse is directional: it would allow flow in one direction and block it in the other. So, if you have current to the device, and you have a'directional' fuse, reverting it will mean you will get no current.
Other than that, it will have no effect. Current is flowing BOTH WAYS! :duh:
Stop pitching nonesense notions to users!
...Please...get an education before you are quick to mock what you do not understand. ...Hahahahaha :lol: this coming from the person saying: there is no science behind this, its unexplainable "magic", but trust me, I can hear it.
Hahahahaha :lol: this coming from the person saying: there is no science behind this, its unexplainable "magic", but trust me, I can hear it.
I'm out of here, good luck convincing the world you can hear a difference when you reverse fuses or that putting a small feather underneath a window clears the high end and tightens up the bass!
Rafa.
If they would sit down and listen with a GOOD system they will convince themselves.
Do you realize how arrogant this sounds? There are plenty of people with good ears and GOOD systems (many better than yours) who can't hear a difference when they reverse a power supply fuse or reverse polarity on an AC circuit.
What exactly, in the actual physical world, IS a directional fuse? How do you make a fuse that passes AC "better" when inserted one way than in the other. Forget listening tests. Tell me at least in theory how to make one, even a bad one. How do you fabricate it and put the arrow on it? And how, when designing and fabricating, do you know the arrow goes one way and not the other?
What exactly, in the actual physical world, IS a directional fuse? How do you make a fuse that passes AC "better" when inserted one way than in the other. Forget listening tests. Tell me at least in theory how to make one, even a bad one. How do you fabricate it and put the arrow on it? And how, when designing and fabricating, do you know the arrow goes one way and not the other?
So . . .Welcome to my, apparently "uneducated", universe. One where rules and not magic govern the laws of physics. I love Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings for entertainment purposes, but I am not ready to believe that swishing a wand will make my components sound better, ESPECIALLY when the wand is a $2000 gadget and the one telling you it will work better is the one making the profit from the wand.
electrical phenomena science has yet to discover . . .
fuses printed with electrical schematic symbols unknown to any professor at MIT . . .
fuses that need 200 hours of "burn in" . . .
fuses using "passive Quantum Inductive Coupling" methods . . .
I'm out of here. Heading down to the used record store to buy a stack of CDs instead of a fuse made of placebonium.
Heck, I don't mind sounding arrogant! I am always willing to be proven wrong, but by something more tangible than: "only I and my super gear can hear the difference, you must be deaf or have poor equipment". Can it be measured? Is there any logic behind that?
In a GOOD system in the USA, AC polarity is audible when its reversed. In a DULL system? You can do what ever you please, and you will hear no differences. Power cords -nada. Fuses - nada. In a GOOD system? A real eye opener!
Now you are mixing phase with polarity. Bring on the misconceptions and the distractions to prove your point!
I have a question for all those folks who claim AC can not have direction.
If that were true?
We would never need to wire our speakers in phase with each other.
It would make no difference in we have one speaker with its positive and negative crossed over.
Would it now?
:scratch:
It doesn't really matter which polarity the speakers are connected with, as long as they are all connected with the same polarity.
For each channel, the easiest thing is of course to connect the red terminal on the amp or receiver or whatever to the red terminal on the corresponding speaker, and black to black. OR, if you like, you could connect red on the amp to black on the speaker, and vice versa.
However you do it, if you now reverse all of the speakers' connections, you will reverse the system's "absolute phase". But absolute phase doesn't matter. Some people claim that it does, some claim to be able to detect when a system's absolute phase is "wrong", but this is one of those things that has never been reliably shown in listening tests. There is utterly no guarantee that the rest of your system preserves absolute phase anyway. In fact, this non-guarantee goes all the way back to the recording studio. There is no guarantee that when the studio mic's diaphragm was pushed in by the positive-going portion of a sound wave, that this will be recorded with positive-going numbers in the recording. Or that positive-going numbers in the recording will result in a positive-going waveform out of your amp. So the odds are that about half of your recordings are recorded with "reversed phase". So whichever way you hook up the speakers, they'll be "wrong" for about half of your recordings. To repeat: It won't matter.
But:
Connect one channel red-to-red and black-to-black, and the other red-to-black and black-to-red, and your speakers really are wired wrong. They're "out of phase" in the only way that matters: Relative to each other. (So what we are talking about here is called "relative phase".) If both amp channels' outputs swing positive at the same time, one speaker cone will move in while the other moves out. That is not what is supposed to happen. It will not result in anything like complete cancellation, but it will sound somewhere between weird and awful. Bass will be diminished, and as you walk around between the speakers you will notice your "where-is-the-sound-source" directional sense doing backflips.
Edit - added: I actually recommend that everyone who's interested in audio try this (connecting your mains out of phase w.r.t. each other) at least once, just to see what it sounds like. Different people will of course experience it differently. It's the most fun if you play a monaural source. If you have an FM tuner with a "stereo/mono" switch, that'll do it. One point that is interesting is how incomplete the cancellation is outside of the bass range, even if you put the speakers right next to each other.
Hi WindChaser
I am not one that belief deeply in running in or burning in, but in cycles. It's the number of on/of that gives the system the heating and cooling cycles that sets the system or break it.
Hi
If after 30 cycles and I still cannot get used to the sound or does not like the sound, then that component is not for me.
Just connected the st-10 to the dac-10, must say my biggest fear, (harshness and brightness), is ABSENT, what a relief. It's just a touch edgy, if you know what I mean. But it's doing a good job now, thanks to Mr. Jye, the dealer for running it in for me. He has clocked about 50 hours, which normally will take me months. Let's give it more time and see if it improves. Thanks to all that encouraged me on.
Hi All,Rust is indeed a cancer. It will spread unless you neutralize it. Of course, if the case is non-ferrous it will stop with the screws themselves. But nobody wants even a little rust, even a little rust on some little screws. If you live in a humid climate you should have a tub of Naval jelly and a bottle of cold blue solution in your fluids cabinet in your garage to deal with minor rust issues before they become major.
Yes, it's improving. I like the volume control, wven at very low volume, I do not feel that there is bit strip. It allows me to listen near fueld at around 60spl, amazed.
In the other hand, I am disappointed as I realised the screws on the remote already had rust on it. It's only 4 months, what else will rust??? I hope it would not be like cancer, spreading the rust to the internals. Also hope the dac's and amp's casing are made of better material or better treated to withstand the rage of nature.
Hi All,
Yes, it's improving. I like the volume control, wven at very low volume, I do not feel that there is bit strip. It allows me to listen near fueld at around 60spl, amazed.
In the other hand, I am disappointed as I realised the screws on the remote already had rust on it. It's only 4 months, what else will rust??? I hope it would not be like cancer, spreading the rust to the internals. Also hope the dac's and amp's casing are made of better material or better treated to withstand the rage of nature.
Tan
If you are turning the DAC-10/ST-10 combo off and then back on every time you go to listen to it then that would explain a good part of what you are hearing. While the DAC-10 will mostly come up to speed in about an hour the ST-10 takes days and performs at it's best when left on all the time.
Hi Genez,
I'm living in the far north of Vietnam, it's easier for me to cross over to China then to go to the airport. The power grid is poor with lots of fluctuations. I have to use avs and despite that things still get blown off. Those power lines and telephone line acts as an antenna during lightning strikes.
My neighbour's roof got blown a hole once, lucky everyone are out at work.
I am hoping more people with such experiences can share how they overcome these problems to get better results for their music enjoyment. Poor voltage stability, lightning, low voltage during "peak hour" and high humidity. Get only 200 volts single phase during peak hour, best time for me to listen is after 10pm when everyone are asleep. The humidity peaks out near 98% and sometimes you can see water condensation on floor and walls. All my equipments are wrapped if not playing music.
Enough of my ranting, hope you all a great weekend and enjoy your music while I listen to mine through my phone and my trusty ear buds.
Perhaps part of the issue is this "starved" component? If it is not receiving enough voltage, that may be affecting the sound and the capability of dynamics?
I had some burnouts that affected a NuForce I had (have written about it before) as I live in South America and our electric grids are not that good either. I have put a voltage regulator for the DAC-10 and ST10 for safety measures.
That said, I have been reading and listening to people that know, and this may be actually affecting the sound even further. Having a true power regenerator (one that does not regulate, but takes AC into D.C., cleans it and then remakes AC) is a true solution. Albeit, a very expensive one!
The problem is that, in this particular AC cleaning realm, there is so much snake oil in the industry that it is really hard to know what really works and what are gimmicks. My best advice would be a true power regenerator like the ones made by PSAudio, but the least expensive one is still around US $3000.
No idea how else to solve this.
That said, I have been reading and listening to people that know, and this may be actually affecting the sound even further. Having a true power regenerator (one that does not regulate, but takes AC into D.C., cleans it and then remakes AC) is a true solution. Albeit, a very expensive one!We are working on a very good but reasonably priced AC regenerator.
We are working on a very good but reasonably priced AC regenerator.
We are working on a very good but reasonably priced AC regenerator.