AudioCircle
Other Stuff => Archived Manufacturer Circles => DIY Cable => Topic started by: Kevin Haskins on 10 Nov 2005, 12:33 am
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Ok.. for you bargain hunters who are willing to break out the soldering iron & provide a little free labor we are now offering the basic 2-channel Hypex amplifier kits.
The UCD-180 versions are now on the site and I'm working on the UCD-400 version next.
Hypex Amplifier Kit (http://www.diycable.com/main/product_info.php?products_id=590)
(http://www.diycable.com/main/images/front.jpg)
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Kevin:
Looks like another bang for the buck diy solution!
kfr
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Yea... that price is for the basic UCD-180ST & standard supply. Most people are going to want to trick them out so the average price will probably be higher.
If I where going to build one for myself I'd use the Softstart, UCD-180AD & the HG power supply which would tip the scales at $750 but you end up with a KILLER amp for that price.
If you need more power the UCD-400 version is probably going to start off about $775 for the basic kit which will include the HG (high grade) power supply. The HG supply doesn't really cost any more for the UCD400s because you would need two of the standard supplies to run a UCD-400 build anyway.
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I'm curious why you would say the softstart. Is it because you use a heck of lot of capacitance? I don't get turn on thump even with my UcD400s, 2x 600watt toroids, & ~35-40kuF of capacitance.
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G'day...Kev
I've been searching amp for 2 months I reckon Hypex amp will be the best amp in the market, I hope I can end up my last hunting with hypex.
Before that I got some questions about this hypex amp.
1) what is the difference between AD and ST version in sound quality?
2) is that possible to replace the caps on UCD power supply? for ex with blackgate or rubycon?
3) does the chassis fit for 2 channels dual mono configurations? 2 channels, 2 power supplies and 2 transformers?
4) what is the benefit using RFI/DC filter?
5) I'm from Australia is it possible to use 240 VAC transformer?
Sorry for giving you heap questions, btw if hypex amp doesn't has problems using some of the best parts to be installed in hypex amp I'm glad to upgrade it
For UCD amp 180 AD ST 2 channels
1) Using plitron transformers
2) Using all with Blackgate caps
3) Using UCD HG power supply
4) Using all wiring with Cardas
5) Using WBT binding posts and WBT RCA inputs
That's all I thougt.
2 thumbs up for your good work Kev
Thanks a lot
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Blackgates of appropriate size would be atrociously expensive! Something on the order of $200 each and you'd need ~4 of them for a stereo amp. This is why people don't use BG in amps, only preamps and sources. My suggestion is to look to Nichicon KG Golds for hiend at a sane price, or if you can track them down, Siemen (now under another name) Sikorel Slitfoils are highly bespoke.
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I'm curious why you would say the softstart. Is it because you use a heck of lot of capacitance? I don't get turn on thump even with my UcD400s, 2x 600watt toroids, & ~35-40kuF of capacitance.
The softstart doesn't control turn-on thump. It's there mainly so that you don't pop low value fuses during turn-on. The Hypex power supply has a feature that controls the turn-on/off noises via the mute function on the modules.
The benefits of using a softstart:
1. As said... you can use a lower value mains fuse.
2. You save wear/tear on the mains switch.
3. You don't slam the rectifier & mains caps with a large turn-on current. Prolongs life of those components.
The other nice feature the Hypex unit has is that you can use a switch to control the standby feature on the Hypex modules. That allows you to keep the amp in standby mode rather than full shut down.
There is also a feature to allow you to use a thermistor on the heatsink of the amps to shut them down under overheating conditions. It's just another safety device.
Overall... if I where to build one for myself I'd use a softstart. You can get by without it by using a thermistor on one leg of the primary which puts a 2 Ohm resistance on the primary until the power switch is flipped. The current going through the thermistor lowers the resistance value when it's on. We have used that approach and get by with an 8A fuse on 800VA transformers with 80,000uF of capacitance in the supply.
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G'day...Kev
I've been searching amp for 2 months I reckon Hypex amp will be the best amp in the market, I hope I can end up my last hunting with hypex.
Before that I got some questions about this hypex amp.
1) what is the difference between AD and ST version in sound quality?
Not a lot. The ST version is pretty good. The AD version is a little more transparent giving a slight nod to lower level detail in the recording.
2) is that possible to replace the caps on UCD power supply? for ex with blackgate or rubycon?
As stated... the Blackgates would be cost prohibitive. You can try switching any caps you like into the power supply. Just make sure they are of the appropriate voltage rating. I've tried the Panasonic, BC (on Standard supply) and the Slit-foil (on the HG supply) and there are sonic differences but they are subtle ones. It's hard to comment on what is best without taking it within the context of a given system and a person's taste.
3) does the chassis fit for 2 channels dual mono configurations? 2 channels, 2 power supplies and 2 transformers?
There is plenty of room in the chassis but all of these questions depend on which transformer & which power supply you choose. You could fit two 250VA transformers, and two ST supplies. The HG supply is larger but I think you could make it fit. I'm not convinced there is much of an advantage to using the dual mono supply. I hear very little difference between the stereo and dual mono configuration.
4) what is the benefit using RFI/DC filter?
..
You filter RFI & DC from the mains line. The DC filter 99.9% of the time does nothing because you need a lot of DC on the mains to saturate the torroid. RFI levels on the mains varies from location to location.
5) I'm from Australia is it possible to use 240 VAC transformer?
The standard transformer has dual 115VAC primaries so you could wire it for 230V use. All the Hypex equipment that goes on the mains (softstart) are 230V rated.
I'm not sure how much benefit you will get over upgrading from the AD version with the Hypex HG supply. You could easily spend multiples of the base price on the upgrades you have mentioned. I'd say build it stock first and make "improvements" one at a time to see if they make an audible difference. Often they don't.
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Hi Kevin,
Is this amp sensitive to cable and grounding? I have used digital amps before and they all had hissing sound one way or another.
:?:
Ken
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Hi Kevin,
Is this amp sensitive to cable and grounding? I have used digital amps before and they all had hissing sound one way or another.
:?:
Ken
The Hypex units are stone dead quite, no noise hiss or hum nor any of the whistling you hear from your other digital amps. This noise is typically related to the switching frequency. We had a lot of problems with the LC Audio units in this regard. I've had none with the Hypex units even when sticking seven in one chassis.
They also have no problem with radiated RFI like virtually all other digital amps. I can leave the top off the amplifier and run an FM radio within inches of the unshielded amplifier modules without interference.
There are several forms of noise that can cause problems in amps. I've yet to build one where there was any audible noise from the speaker during operation. Only during shut down, and then only if you don't use the Hypex power supply do you get any noise. With the Hypex power supply there is no noise during power up/down cycles due to the toggling of the mute function. If you build your own supply you will get some power up/down noise as the power supply rails drop or raise.
You CAN still manage to get a system ground loop. This is pretty much the case with any amplifier, digitial or not, so its more of a system grounding issue rather than a design issue with the amps. Also you should use good wiring technique inside the amp (keeping power away from signal lines, twisting AC power etc..) but those are normal layout issues you have with any piece of equipment. The Hypex are no more or less immune to layout problems with the exception of perhaps using the balanced inputs, which gives you better noise rejection characteristics than a single ended input will.
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Here is a picture of all the components included in the base kit. The top cover and the front panel are not shown in the picture.
(http://www.diycable.com/main/images/product_giant/590/kit1.jpg)
Here is a picture with the HG Supply and softstart. You could run a second torroid and power supply for dual mono operation without too much trouble. The transformer is about $60 & the power supply $85 for the ST version and $195 for the HG. I'd say the only way it would make sense is if you used the HG version so you would be adding about $255 to the price of the upgraded HG kit for a true dual mono version.
(http://www.diycable.com/main/images/product_giant/590/kit3.jpg)
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how does the amp do with single driver, high efficiency speakers?
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That looks like the FIRST amp kit I'd EVER consider!
Congratulations.
So how much heat does this puppy pump out?
It would be sweet to have my brother carve me up at least a wooden face plate, maybe sides, too.
Any problem with that?
-Mike
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So why is the case so big? It looks like it could be half the width and shorter in depth.
Darren
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how does the amp do with single driver, high efficiency speakers?
I've used it with the FR-125, which fits the single driver category... not the high efficiency part. ;-)
The main concern with high efficiency speakers is noise. In that regard the Hypex amps are going to be significantly quieter than any tube amp I've used. There is zero noise unless you have some sort of ground loop in your system so they would be a perfect match in that regard.
The main thing most single driver advocates seem to look for is the low-level detail retrieval and the midrange magic that lopping off the frequency extremes brings to the forefront. The low-level detail retrieval is there is spades on these amplifiers. The midrange lusciousness of let's say a 300B SET isn't there to the same magnitude but it's in evidence if the recording has it and the amplifiers sound more faithful to the source than most high distortion amps that introduce a heavy dose of 2nd harmonic.
I personally like a little of that 2nd harmonic so using a tube preamp to season my system is how I achieve it.
Another characteristic that differs from let’s say a single ended 300B amplifier (my frame of reference because I own a pair), is that as you turn it up the 300Bs compress considerably on all but very high efficiency speakers (>100db/1W/1M). They don’t sound nasty in compression but they audibly compress compared to the Hypex amps. The magnitude depends on the speaker. As expected the higher power pays off with dynamic passages and louder listening levels.
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That looks like the FIRST amp kit I'd EVER consider!
Congratulations.
So how much heat does this puppy pump out?
It would be sweet to have my brother carve me up at least a wooden face plate, maybe sides, too.
Any problem with that?
-Mike
Thanks.... I really didn't do much. Bruno Putzeys is the man. He designed the modules and I must say did an excellent job. There is nothing I'd change at this point which is one of the VERY few times I've felt that about a design.
There is very little heat in the UCD-180 modules. The case is the heatsink in this 2-channel set-up and it never even gets warm to the touch. If you use the standby mode of the amps there would only be a couple watts of heat dissipated under idle. The amps are >90% efficient so they run COOL.
There is no problem with the wood front. The front goes on with eight (or four if you choose) screws and it's flat so doing a custom front is very easy. The sides would take a little more creativity. You would need to screw the wood to the side as it provides some structural support.
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So why is the case so big? It looks like it could be half the width and shorter in depth.
Darren
It could for the 2-channel kit. We use the same chassis to build up to seven channel amps though so we would have to stock another chassis, which I'm hesitant to do. :-)
I like standards also.... the chassis is a standard 2-U size to fit a standard equipment rack and it fits in a predictable manner in most hifi cabinets. Small chassis also are a pain in that they often don't have enough weight to keep them planted when using massive power cords, speaker cables and interconnects. It actually helps in my experience to have some heft to the chassis. Also... as you stuff these things with much larger transformers (upcoming UCD400 & UCD700 kits) you need a substantial chassis to securely mount the transformer. If you use a switching power supply that isn't as much of a concern but with a linear supply the weight adds up quick. Better to have an overbuilt chassis with extra room than an under built one with little room to work. Space is big help with separating power and signal wires so having the extra real estate is a boon for multiple reasons.
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Ok.. for you bargain hunters who are willing to break out the soldering iron & provide a little free labor we are now offering the basic 2-channel Hypex amplifier kits.
The UCD-180 versions are now on the site and I'm working on the UCD-400 version next.
Hypex Amplifier Kit (http://www.diycable.com/main/product_info.php?products_id=590)
Hi Kevin,
So what is the difference between the SG and the HG supply. On the UCD400, there are two? power supplies to make up the HG supply. Could you explain a bit more? On the 400 supply, you are using a 500 VA transformer? That would be for the single supply. If left on, what do both amps draw in idle mode? If not much, concerned what the need for standby is for?
Ray
(http://www.diycable.com/main/images/front.jpg)
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Ray:
From his website:
"The Hypex HG (High Grade) power supply has all the functionality of the standard power supply with full DC protection, on/off mute toggle and built-in bridge rectifier. What differentiates the HG model is the use of premium slit-foil electrolytic capacitors and ultra-soft recovery diodes bypassed by snubber caps. In addition, this premium supply offers a full 40,000uF of capacitance to supply two full UCD-400 or UCD-180 modules."
That answers all but your idle power question.
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Ray:
From his website:
"The Hypex HG (High Grade) power supply has all the functionality of the standard power supply with full DC protection, on/off mute toggle and built-in bridge rectifier. What differentiates the HG model is the use of premium slit-foil electrolytic capacitors and ultra-soft recovery diodes bypassed by snubber caps. In addition, this premium supply offers a full 40,000uF of capacitance to supply two full UCD-400 or UCD-180 modules."
This be true. I wrote him that question about 3 this morning. So I really did not look at the site to well. To think you can get a killer stereo amp in a complete kit form for $500. That's a steal.
Ray
That answers all but your idle power question.
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Ok.. for you bargain hunters who are willing to break out the soldering iron & provide a little free labor we are now offering the basic 2-channel Hypex amplifier kits.
The UCD-180 versions are now on the site and I'm working on the UCD-400 version next.
Hypex Amplifier Kit (http://www.diycable.com/main/product_info.php?products_id=590)
(http://www.diycable.com/main/images/front.jpg)
Hi Kevin,
Well, Whatever happened with the Auricap project for the outputs? Any news there?
Ray
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We use the same chassis to build up to seven channel amps though so we would have to stock another chassis, which I'm hesitant to do.
Kevin: Is there any chance that you could be convinced to overcome your hesitancy? I would really like to have a five channel UcD400 AD with all the bells and whistles in a single chassis. In fact, DIY Cable is at the very top of my Xmas list which has already been submitted to Santa and waiting approval. :D
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Ok.. for you bargain hunters who are willing to break out the soldering iron & provide a little free labor we are now offering the basic 2-channel Hypex amplifier kits.
The UCD-180 versions are now on the site and I'm working on the UCD-400 version next.
Hypex Amplifier Kit (http://www.diycable.com/main/product_info.php?products_id=590)
(http://www.diycable.com/main/images/front.jpg)
Hi Kevin,
Well, Whatever happened with the Auricap project for the outputs? Any news there?
Ray
I'm still waiting. I was told they would be here in time for CES but my last update was three weeks ago.
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We use the same chassis to build up to seven channel amps though so we would have to stock another chassis, which I'm hesitant to do.
Kevin: Is there any chance that you could be convinced to overcome your hesitancy? I would really like to have a five channel UcD400 AD with all the bells and whistles in a single chassis. In fact, DIY Cable is at the very top of my Xmas list which has already been submitted to Santa and waiting approval. :D
We can do five channels without a problem. Our limits are due to the real estate in the current chassis which will fit up to seven UCD-180s but only five UCD-400s. We would be able to do seven UCD-400s but we have had to move to a more aggressive heatsinking solution for them and that takes up more space limiting us to five channel UCD400 solutions.
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We can do five channels without a problem. Our limits are due to the real estate in the current chassis which will fit up to seven UCD-180s but only five UCD-400s. We would be able to do seven UCD-400s but we have had to move to a more aggressive heatsinking solution for them and that takes up more space limiting us to five channel UCD400 solutions.
Thanks Kevin, you've got a PM.
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Just curious. Can a novice put the kit together? I can solder and am mechanical, but can't read schematics. Also, can Auricaps and extras be ordered to upgrade as I know someone who can do that for me. How much power at 4 and 8 ohms can a stereo UCD 400 put out? Thanks for elaborating. By the way, the DACT attenuator I bought recently is a very nice sonic upgrade.
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Just curious. Can a novice put the kit together? I can solder and am mechanical, but can't read schematics. Also, can Auricaps and extras be ordered to upgrade as I know someone who can do that for me. How much power at 4 and 8 ohms can a stereo UCD 400 put out? Thanks for elaborating. By the way, the DACT attenuator I bought recently is a very nice sonic upgrade.
It's pretty simple. Actually the only place you need to solder is on the RCA/XLR inputs and the IEC input. You don't need to read any schematics. The Hypex instructions show a very simple line drawing which shows you how to hook-up everything. I'm going to improve upon those with some simple pictures when I get the time. Overall though the most difficult part of assembling one is drilling the holes to mount the modules to the floor of the cabinet. There isn't ANY PCB work or soldering of components. Its already completely done. All you have to do is crimp on some connectors and hook up the wires in the correct place. All positions are clearly marked and if you have any questions you can always give me a call.
Overall I think my wife could do it and she has a hard time getting the hood of the car open.
UCD-180 amps are about 90W into 8 Ohms and 180 into 4 ohms. Hypex has more meaningful data in their documentation with distortion and bandwidth curves.
The UCD-400 is 200W into 8 Ohms and 400W into 4 Ohms. Same deal... check out their data sheets for more measured data.
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Will other Exodus Audio dealers be selling these kits as well?
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Not at this point. We are in our infancy on the Exodus product line. Some of the items make sense to run through our partners.... others don't. The amp kit falls under the doesn't make sense catagory.
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We will need to drill the holes into the case ourselves?
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Drilling small holes is quite easy in aluminum, regular bits and a drill will do, but larger holes usually require a drill press and carbide bits.
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We will need to drill the holes into the case ourselves?
At this point you need to drill holes for mounting the power supply & modules. We use a standard cordless drill with the appropriate bit. It's fairly simple... only takes a couple minutes once you have all the holes marked.
There is no need to drill on the rear or front panel. Both of those have all the metal work CNCed for the appropriate connector.
In the future as we standardize we we will probably have our case manufacture punch all the mounting holes. Since we have so many configurations it's difficult to cover all of them for mounting parts to the floor of the chassis. It ends up looking like swiss cheese from all the mounting holes. :-)
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Not at this point. We are in our infancy on the Exodus product line. Some of the items make sense to run through our partners.... others don't. The amp kit falls under the doesn't make sense catagory.
I guess there won't be an easy way to get these up across the border for the time being. Duties really hurt.
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Hobbes26
I hear ya! I'm thinking of taking a trip to pick up a few goodies Kevin is offering...I don't know how much duty or taxes are incurred in amp modules and power supplies but I think it might be cheaper than paying the exchange (on the Euro) and duty from the Netherlands (Hypex).
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I can ship them over to Lynnwood for you to pick them up. It cost money going across the border if you carry them across also. I send a lot of stuff via USPS into Canada which is much more reasonable than UPS but I'm not sure what they charge you for something like this. I don't know why an amplifier kit would ding you more than a cable and plenty of Canadians buy other products from me with USPS shipping.
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Not at this point. We are in our infancy on the Exodus product line. Some of the items make sense to run through our partners.... others don't. The amp kit falls under the doesn't make sense catagory.
I guess there won't be an easy way to get these up across the border for the time being. Duties really hurt.
I just called John Chapman to ask about this. If you use USPS during the checkout the only brokerage fee you will pay is $5 for the transaction. You will have to pay your normal sales tax depending on where you live. Don't choose UPS though because you will end up paying much larger brokerage fees.
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I guess there won't be an easy way to get these up across the border for the time being. Duties really hurt.
just as a point of reference.. I just ordered a chassis and had it shipped to montreal (where I am moving). The declared value was 65USD and I was charged 40 CAD for duty!!! Seemed a little steep to me-not sure how they figured that one out.
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I guess there won't be an easy way to get these up across the border for the time being. Duties really hurt.
just as a point of reference.. I just ordered a chassis and had it shipped to montreal (where I am moving). The declared value was 65USD and I was charged 40 CAD for duty!!! Seemed a little steep to me-not sure how they figured that one out.
Was it shipped via UPS or the postal service?
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just as a point of reference.. I just ordered a chassis and had it shipped to montreal (where I am moving). The declared value was 65USD and I was charged 40 CAD for duty!!! Seemed a little steep to me-not sure how they figured that one out.
That wasn't duty you were charged. There is zero duty on items coming from the US (with the exception of items made overseas and imported into the US with no additional value-add).
What you paid was UPS' exorbitant "brokerage fee" as well as other UPS fees. Here's the breakdown:
http://www.ups.com/content/ca/en/shipping/cost/zones/customs_clearance.html
You paid $19 for UPS "brokerage", then $5.85 for not paying in advance, then $4.25 for collecting that money you didn't pay in advance, then PST/GST on the stupid $29.10 UPS charged you, for a total of $33.32 in fees to UPS. That's on top of whatever you paid UPS in the first place to ship the item. (The rest of what you got charged was PST/GST on the actual item, which is fair.)
Never ever use UPS for shipping goods to Canada. Their fee structure is outrageous and their representatives are dishonest, often referring to these fees as "duty", which is designed to mislead people into thinking they're paying some kind of tariff or tax.
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I just called John Chapman to ask about this. If you use USPS during the checkout the only brokerage fee you will pay is $5 for the transaction. You will have to pay your normal sales tax depending on where you live. Don't choose UPS though because you will end up paying much larger brokerage fees.
Thanks for the information!
And yes, NEVER go with UPS... I've had to pay $40 worth of fees on $15 worth of CDs. My mom didn't know better when she accepted the item.
I've also found that USPS is much more reasonable.
Oh, I'm in Calgary now (yay no prov sales tax!), so it's a tad more difficult for me to get down to Lynnwood... no more visits to Adire for me. :(