Felix meets the Squeezebox

fu_man · « **Reply #40 on:** 4 Feb 2008, 11:08 am »

Gee I 'm a fish out of water here in this circle...one thing for sure - I won't be building a Felix... BUT:

JoshK, you caught my attention with this:

Quote

I do know that the Felix did wonders for my DEQX, which has a swithcher internally.

So my question is... how long would it typically take make one one of these? IE would it be worth while paying someone to make one for me - (sorry if these seems "offensive" or just plain ironic to any DIY'ers)

Also JoshK did you use the same schematic that Gary posted?

JoshK · « **Reply #41 on:** 4 Feb 2008, 02:58 pm »

My schematic is the same except i used .47 instead of 1uf. I didn't experiment to see what was best.

kyrill · « **Reply #42 on:** 4 Feb 2008, 03:58 pm »

because of this thread i am building 6 outlets for myself, thx GBB
dont get me wrong
i love the technical expertise of Occam, GBB, Mike, Pat and others ( Steve Eddy) and especially their willingness to share it,
which i think is great and also initiate dynamic and mostly very very interesting threads
But for every one of you who have the knowledge and skill and enjoyment of building, there are so much more others reading and not able to understand properly and/or to do DIY for some or all projects or even don't enjoy doing it, but cannot enjoy otherwise the functions of the accomplished projects.

So i believe to show from time to time to the multiple many anonymous readers ( as they didn't post) an affordable finished alternative if there is any. NOT a sign of disrespect to the engineers who share their ideas/approaches of projects. How could that be? This is not the same as assuming that in those cases products of friends are "pushed" that would not be proper. At least my 2 cents

Folsom · « **Reply #43 on:** 4 Feb 2008, 10:51 pm »

What type of Wal-Wart switching adapters does everyone have for their Squeezebox? I have two. One puts out 1600ma and the other 2a. The 1600ma one also can do 250v. I wonder which one would sound better. I looked inside both and the 1600ma one has an X1 capacitor for noise already, and a heatsink, where as the 2a has no heatsink for the diode. The 1600ma just looks a little nicer inside, but having 2a could be better?

Has anyone considered getting a schematic of these things and modifying them to go with their Felix? I would imagine just a couple of capacitor replacements and putting in a super fast diode would do a lot.

Occam · « **Reply #44 on:** 5 Feb 2008, 09:02 pm »

Tan,

Very cool

Congrats,

Paul

Folsom · « **Reply #45 on:** 6 Feb 2008, 03:36 am »

I am going to have to do a test with an adjustable linear vs. switcher when my Felix box is done. Would it be worth it to make a separate Felix for the Squeezebox I wonder? Meh I have had the parts for a Felix since back when I had money, might as well not be thinking too far ahead to money. Wait I take that back I got no capacitors.

kyrill · « **Reply #46 on:** 9 Feb 2008, 12:03 pm »

from an EE point view this maybe a stupid question
but i am eager to learn

IS it possible to use this Felix behind a switchin pws?
I know the SWPS produces DC and the Felix is designed for AC
but the choke passes DC. Would it then filter the SWPS garbage in the DC output?

Occam · « **Reply #47 on:** 9 Feb 2008, 03:55 pm »

kyrill,

You've raised an excellent point.

I went towards your direction here -
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=47736.msg427758;topicseen#msg427758
where I suggested using a Felix to filter the output of a wallwart's ac voltage, and mentioned the potential benefits, specifically the benefits of the filter feeding a higher load.
Gary and I have discussed filtering the DC output previously. Great minds think alike....

On the dc output of a SB supply, you still have those conditions of current going in equals current going out, and therefore the a Felix type conditioner should be effective. You'll also be able to use non X rated caps as it wouldn't be filtering high AC voltages, larger values of capacitance are feasible given the load, and even small properly oriented electrolytics. On a dc side filter, you could ditch that filter's input caps.

I'd still recommend building the Felix exactly as Gary laid out. Better the devil you know....
But certainly, afterwards, a post ps filter might bring substantial benefits, either in combination with the AC filtering, and potentially, without.
The 3 amp rating of Gary's CMC should easily handle the nominal 1 amp load of the SB.

I do hope you've bought more than one of the CMCs.

Looking forward to your evaluation,
Paul

kyrill · « **Reply #48 on:** 9 Feb 2008, 04:26 pm »

ok
I will use one as well for my Blu ray player and JVC projector and digital TV setup box and my DEQX preamp
that will make 8
i read yr links carefully and must buy more CMC's I have 6 now, but can use another 3-4

do I have to half the 3A the coilcraft CMC can have because i feed it with 230V? Nowhere in the specs of the coils I can find for what Voltage (115V or 230V) it is designed for. Or can it have both with 3A?

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #49 on:** 9 Feb 2008, 05:06 pm »

Quote from: kyrill on 9 Feb 2008, 04:26 pm

ok
I will use one as well for my Blu ray player and JVC projector and digital TV setup box and my DEQX preamp
that will make 8
i read yr links carefully and must buy more CMC's I have 6 now, but can use another 3-4

do I have to half the 3A the coilcraft CMC can have because i feed it with 230V? Nowhere in the specs of the coils I can find for what Voltage (115V or 230V) it is designed for. Or can it have both with 3A?

Kyrill,

I have succeed installing the walwart stock PS in the Felix PS box (two in one) to eliminate the receptacle and plug with wires. My Felix (based on Gary model's) sounds very very nice. However, IMO I replaced the Vishay 1.0mF/440V at main out (before walwart) with a Sonicap GenI 1.0mF/1200V. My musics have extremely improved I have never believed.

My next Felix project is a dual CMC in one box with a dual receptacles (better quality one I have in hand like FIM or Hubbell...). Will post pictures later on. Good luck.

Tan

Occam · « **Reply #50 on:** 9 Feb 2008, 06:03 pm »

kyrill,

All the CMC chokes mentioned, both the Colilcrafts and JW Millers are rated for use on 240vac mains. It also means that your components are drawing half the current that they would be in North America, 120vac. This means you can potentially run an arbitrary lower current rated by higher inductance CMC that could offer more filtering.

Tan,

Congratulations on your builds that meet (and hopefully exceed) your expectations.

Its an awkward situation when you mention the use of non X rated caps in AC line filters. I can't deny that the use of non approved caps for either X or Y use, might provide better results that caps approved for that use. You, yourself must weigh the tradeoffs between potentially improved performance against whatever safety issues as well as potential impact on liability and insurance claims in the event of a fire or electrocution, regardless of the causal factors.
Some of the vendors of bespoke conditioners, like Audience, and I believe Running Springs use such non approved for their use caps. They've made their own judgements, and I'll leave it at that.

Don't even consider not using fuses on conditioners with non rated caps, even if the current ratings of the inductive components exceed the rating of the mains circuit.

Regards to all,
Paul

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #51 on:** 10 Feb 2008, 02:59 am »

Quote

Its an awkward situation when you mention the use of non X rated caps in AC line filters. I can't deny that the use of non approved caps for either X or Y use, might provide better results that caps approved for that use. You, yourself must weigh the tradeoffs between potentially improved performance against whatever safety issues as well as potential impact on liability and insurance claims in the event of a fire or electrocution, regardless of the causal factors.
Some of the vendors of bespoke conditioners, like Audience, and I believe Running Springs use such non approved for their use caps. They've made their own judgements, and I'll leave it at that.

Don't even consider not using fuses on conditioners with non rated caps, even if the current ratings of the inductive components exceed the rating of the mains circuit.

Paul,

Do you think that I use only Sonicap to replace Vishay at the main out before walwart would not be safe? (is this a joke again?) I actually could not squeeze the walwart PS into a small enclosure with the Felix inside since Vishay 1.0mF at main is too big. This is only for a purpose of testing how much different would the sound be between Felix + walwart inside and Felix + 2xplugs + walwart PS. This project will properly and safely be redone soon.

Tan

Occam · « **Reply #52 on:** 10 Feb 2008, 03:47 am »

Tan,

No, I'm not saying that the Sonicap you used is unsafe. I'm saying that the Sonicap has not been certified by an approved ETL (Electrical Testing Laboratory) for use as an X2 capacitor. Nor have the 600v Auricaps in 120v countries, or 1200v Auricaps in 240vac countries used by Audience in their Adept power conditioners.

I'll simply say that the use of non approved capacitors in a power conditioner at line voltages makes me uncomfortable. The use of film and foil unapproved capacitors, as opposed to unapproved metalized film caps (like those specific Auricaps and Sonicaps) would make me very, very uncomfortable, as they lack the self healing characteristics of metalized film or paper caps.

FWIW,
Paul

mikef · « **Reply #53 on:** 17 Feb 2008, 07:56 pm »

Well, I fired up the soldering iron for the first time in many years and built Gary's version of the Felix on breadboard and stuffed it into a cheap Ratshack plastic box. I am using a Bolder modified SB2 through the analog outs.

I have been listening to the results for a couple of hours, and I have to say I like the stock Squeezebox switcher plugged into the Felix more than I like either of my linear supplies. I have a Bolder Basic PS and a modified Elpac WM220 and to me Felix sounds fuller with better bass, and cleaner treble. In comparison, the linear power supplies sound a little soft. I'm really surprised at the result.

My wife agrees with my assessment and prefers the Felix. She was even more surprised that something I built sounds better than a commercial product.

I have to thank Paul and Gary for their work on this project. For ~$45-50 in parts and a couple of hours time, this is a no brainer.

Mike Fox

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #54 on:** 17 Feb 2008, 08:29 pm »

Quote from: mikef on 17 Feb 2008, 07:56 pm

Well, I fired up the soldering iron for the first time in many years and built Gary's version of the Felix on breadboard and stuffed it into a cheap Ratshack plastic box. I am using a Bolder modified SB2 through the analog outs.

I have been listening to the results for a couple of hours, and I have to say I like the stock Squeezebox switcher plugged into the Felix more than I like either of my linear supplies. I have a Bolder Basic PS and a modified Elpac WM220 and to me Felix sounds fuller with better bass, and cleaner treble. In comparison, the linear power supplies sound a little soft. I'm really surprised at the result.

My wife agrees with my assessment and prefers the Felix. She was even more surprised that something I built sounds better than a commercial product.

I have to thank Paul and Gary for their work on this project. For ~$45-50 in parts and a couple of hours time, this is a no brainer.

Mike Fox

Hi Mike,

Does your Felix and stock switghing PS run hot or warm? I built mine in an aluminum box (from Fry's electronics) and it is very cool. My Newava's modded SB3 is sounding much more details and clean deep punchy bass with a very sweet midrange (with my tube gears).

GBB · « **Reply #55 on:** 17 Feb 2008, 09:57 pm »

Quote from: mikef on 17 Feb 2008, 07:56 pm

Well, I fired up the soldering iron for the first time in many years and built Gary's version of the Felix . . . this is a no brainer.

Mike,
Congratulations on the new Felix. It's good to hear that others are able to replicate what I heard on my system. Thanks for taking the time to write in.

Quote from: tanchiro58 on 17 Feb 2008, 08:29 pm

Does your Felix and stock switching PS run hot or warm?

Tan,
My Felix / switching power supply also runs very cool. It's not even warm to the touch.

---Gary

kyrill · « **Reply #56 on:** 17 Feb 2008, 10:08 pm »

hi Paul and Gary

i finished two. still 4 to go but could not do a listening yet as i build them inside my blue ray player and one in my video power bar
what i could notice is that my JVC HD1 ( a digital lcd projector) had rock solid images. Many subtle improvements but one not so subtle, rock stable picture. even close to the screen so 10 inches not one wavering bit, not one little micro movement when i froze the picture As if i was looking at an analogue projection ( except the very small mosquito screen door effect at 10 inches..)before that i could see at 10 inches distant a faint micro movement, a little "nervousness" within the pixels. Very impressive

SET Man · « **Reply #57 on:** 17 Feb 2008, 10:28 pm »

Hey!

First I want to take my hat off for Gary/GBB and Paul/Occam for bringing this excellent and affordable project to everyone here.

I've been observing this thread since it was posted by Gary/GBB. I have to say that right now I'm very tempted to make one. From what I've read it seem like this project will be a great cadinate for Video and TV systems like DVD players and smaller LCD TV set. It is mostly likely that these type of components also have switch mode power supply.

Anyway, I wish I knew about this before I bought the cheappy Monster Cable conditioner for my LCD and DVD player

But maybe I will built one or two (my 27" LCD dawn about 240 watts) for my LCD and DVD player and see.

Thanks guys for sharing this.

Take care,
Buddy

GBB · « **Reply #58 on:** 17 Feb 2008, 11:54 pm »

Quote from: SET Man on 17 Feb 2008, 10:28 pm

First I want to take my hat off for Gary/GBB and Paul/Occam for bringing this excellent and affordable project to everyone here.

Buddy,
You're welcome. I think your suggestion of trying the Felix out on DVD players and other equipment having switching supplies is great. It will definitely have a big impact on many items like that.

I've noticed a lot of discussion on the other Felix thread about building circuit boards to make it easier to build a Felix. While I applaud that effort, I personally don't think it's needed. You can easily wire these things up point to point. Here are a couple of pictures to make the point. I bought a few more of the Coilcraft CMCs as seen here:

I solder on a few inches of 18 gauge bus wire to each connection of the CMC and then hook the caps up to the bus wire as shown here.

I then hot glue this to the bottom of the enclosure and wire it up to the fuse and then wire up the input and output power connections. Its really not necessary to have a circuit board for something like this. The Serpac case that someone mentioned seem like a good fit. I bought some of the type 153 at the local Fry's for this round.

----Gary

BradJudy · « **Reply #59 on:** 17 Feb 2008, 11:59 pm »

Quote from: GBB on 17 Feb 2008, 11:54 pm

Its really not necessary to have a circuit board for something like this.

Nope, not necessary at all, I just have a thing for making it super neat and clean. Point to point is more compact, cheaper and pretty easy for this project.