AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Cheap and Cheerful HiFi => Topic started by: jrtrent on 11 Sep 2011, 08:35 pm
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Last March, Budyog posted his "about face" experience, finding that, despite his great home system, he found himself being a vintage audio guy out in the garage. My about face is a bit different; I may have gone from being a long-time component stereo afficionado to a table radio fan.
Like Budyog, my components have been of pretty good quality, from makes like Linn, Well Tempered, Audio by Van Alstine, and Vandersteen, but this past summer, now living in a small apartment and needing extra living room space for a series of weekend visitors, most of the stereo system got packed away and, I thought temporarily, replaced by the $329 DP-300F turntable (chosen for price, fully automatic operation, built-in phono stage, and the fact that its front-mounted controls and low profile made it useable on a lower shelf of a compact rack) running into a $599.90 Bose Wave music system with soundlink adapter (which inhabits the top shelf to get the recommended placement height).
For less than $1000, I get highly enjoyable playback of lp's, cd's, mp3 files (on cd), am/fm radio, and, through the soundlink adapter, a wide variety of audio from my computer (streamed Netflix movies, NFL Game Rewind and Audio Pass, internet radio, downloaded music files, and more). Once you've found the best spot to place the Wave music system, there really isn't any more fiddling to deal with, just choose your source and adjust the volume, and it sounds good whether played loudly or softly and from anywhere in the room (no "sweet spot" to stay glued to).
There are limitations to what a small table radio is going to do well, but solo instruments of all kinds, most chamber works, jazz trios, bluegrass quartets, folk singers, etc., come off amazingly well. Talk radio, sports broadcasts, old-time radio shows (that I collect on MP3 cd's), and even movie soundtracks are also fully satisfying. Great source versatility, decent sound, tremendous ease of use, and takes up very little space--as long as I live in this apartment, I might never hook up a component system again.
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I live in a small apartment and I couldn't live with myself if I had vandersteens boxed up so I could listen to a Bose wave radio. I'd be climbing up the walls.
I'm building a full system in my apartment, moving up from about Bose level myself. Just landed on some Maggies and never looking back.
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When I read the OP, I thought a divorce was the culprit, now I think you have been brain washed by whatever BOSE uses to make people think they are dialed in and hearing good tunes, I know of no known cure my friend and feel for ya, here's to hoping the effects wear off and soon!!! :beer:
In all seriousness to each his own and if that set up does for ya who am I to say otherwise but I would tend to speculate that if you set that packed away gear back up you may find that after a few songs or a couple days of A and B'ing with your current set up you'll find that your ears just adjusted to the new sound because it was all that was in the room that could be listened too. Or...I could be wrong! :thumb:
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No, no divorce (always been single). I grew tired of driving 70 miles to and from work every day, so sold my house and moved into an apartment a couple years ago.
It's not like the table radio sounds anywhere near as good as my other system; it's just that I'm very surprised at how involving and satisfying it can be for such a small size and price. I recently visited a friend with a good system, taking along some albums I thought he'd like to hear. I played them again when I got home and thought, "What happened? This sucks!" But before the end of the first side, my toes were tapping and I was just really enjoying the music again.
I've been in a mood to simplify many areas of life, including possession of a lot of "things." The simple Denon/Bose Wave system lets me enjoy music, and a lot of other audio entertainment, without a lot of fuss, cost, or intrusion into the living space. That doesn't seem like a bad thing right now. And it's under the maximum system price for the cheap and cheerful forum!
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:thumb:
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I recently read a thread about how many musicians don't have audiophile stereo equipment. In fact, they often have quite average equipment yet can enjoy music, find nuances that others don't hear, and become fully engaged. The theory was postulated that they "fill in the blanks" and are really listening to things others don't: timing, progression, emotion (well, we all should listen for that). I'm not a musician but I took the thread to heart: engage in the music and the enjoyment will follow! Cheers to you for simplifying....
John
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I live in a small apartment and I couldn't live with myself if I had vandersteens boxed up so I could listen to a Bose wave radio. I'd be climbing up the walls.
+1
:lol: :lol: :lol: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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I recently read a thread about how many musicians don't have audiophile stereo equipment. In fact, they often have quite average equipment yet can enjoy music, find nuances that others don't hear, and become fully engaged. The theory was postulated that they "fill in the blanks" and are really listening to things others don't: timing, progression, emotion (well, we all should listen for that). I'm not a musician but I took the thread to heart: engage in the music and the enjoyment will follow! Cheers to you for simplifying....
John
Musicians have to buy gear for making music, and therefore don't have thousands to spend on home audio. That was true in muy case, at least.
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For $530 USD you could do a Squeeze Box Duet and Audioengine A5's.
Of course you'd have to give up those big bulky vinyl recordings.
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Rclark and InfernoSTi, getting a "thumbs up" and a "cheers to you" after mentioning the B word is pretty unusual, and I greatly appreciate it.
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I did the same thing for a second system. I use a Teac Reference receiver/cd player unit. It came with small speakers which sound pretty sweet but not much bass. I added a wireless music player to the setup so I have internet radio and access to the music on my computer.
All in less than $500.
I've been on the hunt for a $100 speaker upgrade. I don't want to stray from the cheap side of things on this system.
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Small Budget system-
Dayton DTA-100A amp and either an MCM DAC (exact clone of the Beresford TC-7510 DAC) or the Maverick Audio DAC/Pre. And a pair of these Monitor Audio M1's or M2's which are rebadged BR1's and BR2's.
$100 for the amp, $120 for the MCM or $220 for the Maverick DAC/Pre. $248 for the Monitor Audio M1's. $328 for the M2's
I just bought a referbished DTA-100A for $50 and it sounds great paired with my Monitor Audio S1's and my son's PSB B6's. Tight deep bass and lots of air, smooth vocals and good detail. It sounded even better when we hooked it up to my son's Maverick. The Maverick gave it that nice tube midrange and added more air and depth to the music.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-383
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/50-7774&green=13236361506&utm_campaign=MyBuys&utm_medium=Recommendation&utm_source=hcat&utm_term=50-7774
http://www.mav-audio.com/base/product/tube_magic_d1
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MRM2
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I recently read a thread about how many musicians don't have audiophile stereo equipment. In fact, they often have quite average equipment yet can enjoy music, find nuances that others don't hear, and become fully engaged. The theory was postulated that they "fill in the blanks" and are really listening to things others don't: timing, progression, emotion (well, we all should listen for that). I'm not a musician but I took the thread to heart: engage in the music and the enjoyment will follow! Cheers to you for simplifying....
John
I know a couple of musicians and they both have pathetic sound at their place. One of them who plays concert piano says " It will never sound like the symphony anyway so what is the point of going to a lot of trouble and spending major money?". I guess we need good systems because we lack imagination...
Strangely I still get as much enjoyment out of my stock GM mini van system as I do out of my GR Research speakers and Virtue amp...
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Musicians rarely have the coin for a serious system, plus as mentioned they only need a "reminder" of what the music should sound like.
Chess masters can play an entire game from memory, the rest of us need the chess set.
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I have another buddy who's in a band, on the verge of potential stardom already, and he doesn't have crap. But they all listen to tons of music just the same.
True, many musicians don't make a lot of money, but I think the fact that they get to hear live music all the time, it also kind of diminishes the need to have a nice stereo.
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When you listen to music on less than capable equipment, you end up listening to the music, not the equipment.
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When you listen to music on less than capable equipment, you end up listening to the music, not the equipment.
Is that why my speakers sound like wood and my CD's sound like plastic? My electronics sound like metal or plastic, depending on where I tap them!
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When you listen to music on less than capable equipment, you end up listening to the music, not the equipment.
Great observation, and very nicely put!
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I sometimes listen to a Squeezebox Boom (boombox) and find it quite enjoyable. I think the trick is that the designers realize its limitations in frequency response, and voice it to sound pleasing. It hides its shortcomings, whereas my audiophile system makes any shortcomings in a recording etc very noticeable.
I think much the same is true for other compact units. They don't give realism or satisfaction like a big rig, but can be quite nice to listen to.
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I have another buddy who's in a band, on the verge of potential stardom already, and he doesn't have crap. But they all listen to tons of music just the same.
True, many musicians don't make a lot of money, but I think the fact that they get to hear live music all the time, it also kind of diminishes the need to have a nice stereo.
:thumb: I really like the way my system is sounding, but I still attend 20-30 concerts a year because no stereo can substitute live music.
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I live in a small apartment and I couldn't live with myself if I had vandersteens boxed up so I could listen to a Bose wave radio. I'd be climbing up the walls.
I'm building a full system in my apartment, moving up from about Bose level myself. Just landed on some Maggies and never looking back.
Maggies are GREAT apartment speakers. The sound doesn't travel through the floor/walls anywhere near to the same degree as box/dynamic speakers. I can listen to my Maggies with a movie pretty loud, and the neighbors downstairs can't hear a thing.
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/778/movieroom1.jpg
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I understand the concept of simplicity in your post, but that Bose player isn't even stereo...it would be hard for me to give up the 2-channel audio effect. We did have one in our office, it made good background music.
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You're right about the Maggie's. I've gone back to my monitors for the last week, just because I barely got to use them before my MMG's and I have a lot of thoughts on that. Im going to review them in the GR forum in a week or so. But yeah, they are energizing the walls and the place far more than the Maggie's.
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Get a pair of Advent Model 3 speakers. They are 10" wide, 16" high and 6 1/2" deep with a 6 1/2" woofer and a funny looking "am" radio type tweeter. They will sound awesome connected to any of the small wattage, vintage Marantz receivers, like 2230 or something like that. Your table will plug right into it, you have am/fm with the receiver and there is an aux. position for CD player.
I'm pretty sure you could get this system for $300. Small, cheap and awesome.
Wayner
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You're right about the Maggie's. I've gone back to my monitors for the last week, just because I barely got to use them before my MMG's and I have a lot of thoughts on that. Im going to review them in the GR forum in a week or so. But yeah, they are energizing the walls and the place far more than the Maggie's.
It's especially helpful here, cause I have my 3.6s biamped and I like to play them a bit loud with movies...people are amazed when I take them outside the apartment into the hallway and all of a sudden you can't hardly hear anything. On top of that, I use a little Outlaw Audio subwoofer for the .1 channel with movies, and that SubDude thing does a fantastic job isolating it. So it can get really intense in here at times, but I'm 100% confident that the neighbors are not being disturbed at all. :thumb:
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Right now I have my sub sitting on an ottoman. Best I could do for now. Eventually OB. What's a subdude??
I always liked subs up off the floor and away from the wall.
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So it can get really intense in here at times, but I'm 100% confident that the neighbors are not being disturbed at all. :thumb:
My dear, late "Turn that music down!" Dad would have loved that system! :icon_lol:
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Right now I have my sub sitting on an ottoman. Best I could do for now. Eventually OB. What's a subdude??
I always liked subs up off the floor and away from the wall.
Here ya go http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_subdude/subdude.asp
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My dear, late "Turn that music down!" Dad would have loved that system! :icon_lol:
lol, yes...yes he would have :)
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I say to the OP, good for you, sometimes simple is just really nice. I have a second system consisting of Paradigm Active 20 speakers, and a Sony ES 5 disk cd changer w/ volume control. That's it. Total cost was around $850 used and I really enjoy it.
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I managed to buy the $1,000+ Bose Acoustic Wave music system at a street sale for $90. This is the larger system, but still compact and very stylish. I had great hopes for this bargain, but after extended listening I couldn't stand how bloated/boomy the bass was and I ended up selling it on craigslist for $300. Not a bad profit and it made someone else happy.
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I haven't visited this forum for a while, so sorry about not seeing the additional posts this past November. Several months on, I find myself still quite happy with my cheap Denon/Bose system.
I understand the concept of simplicity in your post, but that Bose player isn't even stereo...it would be hard for me to give up the 2-channel audio effect. We did have one in our office, it made good background music.
Actually, the Bose is a stereo player, but, of course, given how close the speakers are to each in its small box, once you get your head more than a couple feet away from it, the stereo effect is about nil; Bose rightly recommends placing the unit across the room from the listening position, so it's effectively monophonic in presentation. The stereo effect is something that hasn't often been a big concern to me, however. For a few years I listened quite happily to a mono system (Linn LP12, conrad-johnson preamp, McIntosh power amp, and a single Klipsch La Scala speaker), and when I had an all-Linn system with Sara speakers, my favorite listening position was reclining on the couch with one ear pressed against a pillow--not exactly the position for best stereo effect (nor was the Linn system noted for its soundstaging/imaging qualities, anyway).
With music, I'm more attuned to things like melody, rhythm, harmony, tempo, and dynamics, all of which are surprisingly evident even in this small, simple system. One change from last September is that I've even come to enjoy larger symphonic works over the Bose. I think I found its smaller presentation of this form of music a bit off-putting at first, but, of late, I have not been disappointed when pulling out the symphonies of Tchaikovsky, Beethoven, etc.
I say to the OP, good for you, sometimes simple is just really nice. I have a second system consisting of Paradigm Active 20 speakers, and a Sony ES 5 disk cd changer w/ volume control. That's it. Total cost was around $850 used and I really enjoy it.
Thanks, and yes, simple is nice. I really don't give a thought to how the system sounds anymore. I don't worry about how it could be better or consider trifling things like imaging, tonal balance, frequency extension, detail, etc. I just put something on, and whether it be movies, music, ball games, radio shows, or whatever, I'm able to appreciate and enjoy what I'm hearing.
I managed to buy the $1,000+ Bose Acoustic Wave music system at a street sale for $90. This is the larger system, but still compact and very stylish. I had great hopes for this bargain, but after extended listening I couldn't stand how bloated/boomy the bass was and I ended up selling it on craigslist for $300. Not a bad profit and it made someone else happy.
A friend of mine uses the Acoustic Wave, and I bought an Acoustic Wave II last June to compare against the smaller Wave music system. In my small apartment, the larger size and greater output capability of the larger unit wasn't needed, and from both an operational and sound quality standpoint, I actually preferred the smaller model. One of the nice things about buying new is that there was no trouble giving it an extended trial at home and returning it for a full and hassle-free refund. I'm surprised you found it bloated/boomy, but not every speaker system works well in every environment. I've found the Bose radios to require just as much care and experimentation in placement as any other speaker system I've owned, and I was fortunate to find what seems an ideal location for the Wave music system to drive my room. Nice you could make a profit, though.
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Those Paradigm Active 20's are the real deal (but have quality build issues).
The whole point to stereo is imaging. If you can't set up to get a 3D image, you're just buying more channels of gear.
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Classic (made of solid wood, steel and aluminum, no plastic) Pioneer compact integrated amp, $60; NOS Infinity Beta 10 (they rock!) speakers, $50; obsolete DVD player as a CDP that was lying around & an Ipod or Iphone(you probably already have).
- My basement/garage/shop system. It's enough to have my wife call from two levels up in my loft to "turn it down or lower the bass"; all for less than $200 and it sounds great as well as being engaging.
How do these Bose commercials keep sneaking in here?
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The whole point to stereo is imaging. If you can't set up to get a 3D image, you're just buying more channels of gear.
I understand your point, but at this point in time there seems to be a dearth of affordable, single-channel gear. So even if you don't want or need two channels, you might be stuck taking them anyway.
How do these Bose commercials keep sneaking in here?
Sounds like your basement system works really well for you. I've never owned an iPod or an iPhone, but I do enjoy audio entertainment sent from my computer. How does the DVD player work out as a CD player? When I've tried that, the frustrating part is not having it hooked up to a television, which most DVD players seem to depend on to make it possible to navigate the files on the CD, especially when that CD is filled up with MP3 files in various subdirectories.
For me, a large part of the impetus behind buying the table radio was its small footprint--I really needed the extra space that my component system was taking up. Instead of losing practically a whole wall of living room space to component furniture, speakers, and stands, everything sits and works well on a compact rack that's just 19 inches in width. Wall-mounting components or speakers was not a possibility according to the rental agreement I signed for my apartment.
Not sure what you mean by your reference to "Bose commercials." Does saying something positive about the products we buy constitute a commercial? Should we only start threads to talk about what we don't like?
My reason for starting the thread was enthusiasm over the pleasure that my small, simple, low-cost system proved capable of delivering. Instead of a bulky system costing over $6000, a "cheap and cheerful" system of less than $1000 and with a very tiny footprint is bringing me a great deal of satisfaction (and not just the Bose, but the Denon turntable, also). I thought that this kind of "affordable musical experience" was what this circle was all about, at least according to the "Welcome to Cheap & Cheerful HiFi!" sticky.
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It's a mono table radio with extra inputs, nothing more... it's not a system.
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It's a mono table radio with extra inputs, nothing more... it's not a system.
Sorry for the confusion; I find myself lapsing into referring to the Bose Wave music system that I use as a "table radio," though I suppose that even a table radio is a system of sorts. The Collins English Dictionary has a definition of "system" specific to electronics: "(Electronics) any assembly of electronic, electrical, or mechanical components with interdependent functions, usually forming a self-contained unit." Taken by itself, I suppose the Bose is a form of what Wikipedia calls an integrated music center:
"A very popular type of system for reproducing music from the 1970s onwards was the integrated music centre which combined phonograph, radio tuner, tape player, preamp and power amplifier in one package, often sold with its own separate, detachable or integrated speakers. These systems advertised their simplicity; the consumer did not have to select and assemble the individual components."
Of course, integrated systems were popular long before the '70's. Here's a link to a picture I found of exactly the same machine I grew up listening to, though ours sat on a matching record storage unit designed to keep the player at a useable height:
http://www.retroaudiolab.com/pictures/silvertone.JPG
I agree with you, though, and tend to think of collections of things as properly being a system. Though they're input devices rather than speakers, I think of what I use as a system because it's not just the Bose unit I use, but also the soundlink adapter send/receive units along with the turntable. I could say I have another Wave music system in the bedroom, to which I've attached the output from a DVD/VHS player and a cassette deck, but that might be construed as another commercial.
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Nothing wrong with mono.
Mono "done right" IMO is much preferred to stereo "done wrong".
My only "dream car" was a Saab 99 (yes I'm a poor boy). The stock model had no radio and no place to mount it. In 1978 it cost me $65 to replace a piece of the under dash with a place to hold a radio. So I bought a Blaupunkt AM/FM mono and one Radio Shack Minimus 7 2-way speaker.
I went that route as imaging is impossible in a car, road noise/etc. makes serious listening a laugh, it lessoned FM noise, and a mono system might discourage thieves (previous car had been broken into to get to an average radio). Mounted the speaker in back window directly behind driver's head, worked great.