[Ola_S]

Hi all!
My system constitutes of the BDP-2 (with the new IAD-card), BDA-2, BP-25 and the 28B-SST connected to a pair of Ino Audio pi60 signature. Today I made some comparison between my BDP-2 and my old Sony CDP XA5ES used as drive. The BDP-2 is connected to the BDA-2 with AES/EBU, SPDIF and USB and plays the files om fram an internal Samsung SSD. The Sony player is connected using SPDIF (RG59 cable).

I used the famous Cantate Domino (Proprius) recorded by Bertil Alving as test cd, I have the same CD ripped to FLAC on the SSD. I asked my girlfriend to switch back and forth between the different inputs on the BDA-2 and the signal coming from the Sony-player was superior. Before I said which one I preferred I asked my girlfriend and she also thought the cd sounded the best. This was not the result I expected and hoped for. Any thoughts why? I have ripped most av my CD's using dbpoweramp.

[Mag]

It could be IMO that dbpoweramp and flac conversion is the reason for difference in sound quality. I stopped using dppoweramp years ago when I noticed random glitches on cd. When I switched conversion software there were no more glitches. Second flac conversion may not butt the byte sectors end to end, instead overlap them which results in slight jitter distortion or timing errors. When I rip I, I use wav files with jitter correction, this butts the sectors end to end and the result is noticeably better sound quality albeit slight.

[zoom25]

Two potential things:

1) As mentioned before, use the best converter/ripper on your platform. Exact Audio Copy on Windows and XLD on Mac. Also, I have found WAV to sound the best. I did a thread here earlier on comparing different formats including lossy, compressed lossless, uncompressed lossless. FLAC was the best among the compressed lossless. For uncompressed, I went with WAV over AIFF.

Reference thread: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=139572.0

2) How long are your digital interconnects? It might seem backwards, but in practice, I've at times found the longer digital interconnects to sound better. I haven't updated my thread recently, but for both AES along with the before established SPDIF, the longer cable worked/works better. Same wire, construction, connectors. Only difference is length. Two days ago, I compared my 10 feet Mogami 3173 AES with the 18 feet version and the 18 feet AES was noticeably more relaxed without the glare.

Reference thread: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=140155.0

Both threads are definitely worth the read. These AES cables can be had for relatively cheap and may just be the thing that was holding the BDP back. Of course, this very well might be the particular combo between my BDP and my DAC. Perhaps, it will result in no such difference between the BDP and BDA combo...who knows.

[Grit]

It could be IMO that dbpoweramp and flac conversion is the reason for difference in sound quality. I stopped using dppoweramp years ago when I noticed random glitches on cd. When I switched conversion software there were no more glitches. Second flac conversion may not butt the byte sectors end to end, instead overlap them which results in slight jitter distortion or timing errors. When I rip I, I use wav files with jitter correction, this butts the sectors end to end and the result is noticeably better sound quality albeit slight.

What software do you now use?

[Mag]

What software do you now use?

Well I started with wma 192 back in the 90's then switched to 320 mp3. But when my gear got significantly better I kept everything in wav cause I could hear the difference between 320 mp3 and redbook cd. Since getting the bdp-1 I've got about 200 gigs of my favorites on thumb drives in wav using Nero 7 burning software.

The rest of my collection is still on cd which is why I'm getting the BCD-3 so I don't have to rip more to thumb drives which is very time consuming. I expect the BCD-3 to sound as good or better than my BDP-1 BDA-1 combo.

[eyeshigher]

Try this setup, although I have BDP1 & BDA2, so may be different with BDP2

1/ convert file to aiff or wav, not flac.

2/ disconnect Lan ethernet connection on BDP and use buttons on front to choose track.

3/ disconnect spdif connection

4/ connect the BDP to the BDA using a cheap short <50cm generic usb cable. Also connect the AES connection

5/ Let the BDP fully boot before turning on the BDA, then choose the AES connection on the BDA only.

If this setup and method works for you, try a wifi usb dongle off Amazon for about £6 or $8 and plug it directly into the front of the BDP for control. Make sure the dongle has the correct chipset, for manic moose

Also try a demo of a Shunyata alpha digital mains cable on the BDP, if you can.

[R. Daneel]

The BDP-2 will sound inferior to my (disc) transport as well unless the disc has been properly ripped.

It has to be the ripping engine you used. Always use Exact Audio Copy in secue more with all the parameters set correctly and according to your computer hardware.

That said, do not automatically discount the Sony as being inferior. That player belongs to a different era. I'd be surprised if you found it noticeably inferior to the Bryston to be honest.

Cheers!
Antun

[CanadianMaestro]

Try this setup, although I have BDP1 & BDA2, so may be different with BDP2

1/ convert file to aiff or wav, not flac.

2/ disconnect Lan ethernet connection on BDP and use buttons on front to choose track.

3/ disconnect spdif connection

4/ connect the BDP to the BDA using a cheap short <50cm generic usb cable. Also connect the AES connection

5/ Let the BDP fully boot before turning on the BDA, then choose the AES connection on the BDA only.

If this setup and method works for you, try a wifi usb dongle off Amazon for about £6 or $8 and plug it directly into the front of the BDP for control. Make sure the dongle has the correct chipset, for manic moose

Also try a demo of a Shunyata alpha digital mains cable on the BDP, if you can.

Sorry, I'm confused. What is the point of this exercise? To assess a USB dongle as a control device?

Also, I question the rationale for using a power cord on BDP-1 (Shunyata's Alpha Digital) that costs almost as much as the BDP-1 itself (retailed at around $2050 CAD 2012). Law of Diminishing Returns.....

Cheers,

[CanadianMaestro]

The BDP-2 will sound inferior to my (disc) transport as well unless the disc has been properly ripped.

It has to be the ripping engine you used. Always use Exact Audio Copy in secue more with all the parameters set correctly and according to your computer hardware.

That said, do not automatically discount the Sony as being inferior. That player belongs to a different era. I'd be surprised if you found it noticeably inferior to the Bryston to be honest.

Cheers!
Antun

Good points there. I've had no issues with SQ of ripped FLAC when using XLD with error correction etc. In my system, WAV and FLAC sound identical, so I go with FLAC, as it takes up less space. As usual, YMMV with system specifics.

I still have a Sony multi-disc CD player, that can also record CD-RW.CD-R discs, from about 20 yrs ago. It's collecting dust in my closet, quite heavy, but it sounded pretty darn good hooked to a Sony receiver and bookshelf speakers (Pinnacle AC650). Never dismiss older gear!
cheers
p.

[CanadianMaestro]

deleted

[eyeshigher]

Sorry, I'm confused. What is the point of this exercise? To assess a USB dongle as a control device?

Also, I question the rationale for using a power cord on BDP-1 (Shunyata's Alpha Digital) that costs almost as much as the BDP-1 itself (retailed at around $2050 CAD 2012). Law of Diminishing Returns.....

Cheers,

I was explaining what improved the sound of my system which is a similar setup to the original posters. There is no exact science as to what improves SQ from one persons setup to another, be it noise from a ethernet cable (even though not streaming), adding or removing cables etc, or if a redundant cable changes the sound of the system.

The steps I pointed out are easy to try, and do not cost any money. Steps 1 - 5 (together) increased the soundstage and detail  in my system and can be  easily dismissed if these steps do not work.

The Shunyata power cable ( US $699.00 currently on offer ) may be worth a try for some audiophiles, other forums have pointed this out. Certain tweaks can levitate equipment SQ to pass far more expensive setups.

Thanks

[BrysTony]

Switching back and forth between inputs without volume adjustments makes me question whether the volumes were the same.  If the CD player output was louder it could have easily been perceived as "better."

Tony

[Mag]

The Sony cdp xa5es looks like an impressive unit. I have the Sony NS9100ES which has a nice warm sound that I haven't used for some time. Shutting the video section off, it sounds even better as obviously video adds some noise to the audio.

Also drives can sound different. I use thumb drives with the bdp-1 and I really like the sound of the Corsair Slider 115 GB.

[Ola_S]

Switching back and forth between inputs without volume adjustments makes me question whether the volumes were the same.  If the CD player output was louder it could have easily been perceived as "better."

Tony

Well, now I only compared the digital output from the CD-player to the digital output of the BDP-2 so the levels should be exactly the same 

[Ola_S]

Thanks for the other post in the threads, I'll try the things that you mentioned (may be with the exception of extremely esoteric power cords  ). I'll rip the cd again into wav and test. How jitter could be an issue by ripping I can not understand, the bits are written bit for bit into a file and not converted to analogue (jitter distorts the analogue domain as we all know). Dbpoweramp also checks with an online data base that the cd was ripped bit perfect.

[Ola_S]

2) How long are your digital interconnects? It might seem backwards, but in practice, I've at times found the longer digital interconnects to sound better. I haven't updated my thread recently, but for both AES along with the before established SPDIF, the longer cable worked/works better. Same wire, construction, connectors. Only difference is length. Two days ago, I compared my 10 feet Mogami 3173 AES with the 18 feet version and the 18 feet AES was noticeably more relaxed without the glare.

Reference thread: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=140155.0

The AES/EBU is around 0,6m (Oyaide) and the SPDIF is around 1 meter; the cable connecting the cdp is around 1,5 meter. I guess the only benefit a longer cable could have is if there is an impedance mismatch in the cable that generates reflections. If the cable is long enough the reflection flanks could arrive at a more "beneficial time". Since I'm using the right impedance cables this shouldn't be the case in theory but who knows?   

[zoom25]

The AES/EBU is around 0,6m (Oyaide) and the SPDIF is around 1 meter; the cable connecting the cdp is around 1,5 meter. I guess the only benefit a longer cable could have is if there is an impedance mismatch in the cable that generates reflections. If the cable is long enough the reflection flanks could arrive at a more "beneficial time". Since I'm using the right impedance cables this shouldn't be the case in theory but who knows?   

I know for a fact both my Mogami AES and coax were respectively 110 ohms and 75 ohms and bought/assembled from Pro Audio LA. The connectors were decent as well, although you never truly know I guess. I've seen people use BNC as well to avoid this problem with the connectors

But yes, the sure way would be to try a longer cable if you wanted to. I had a 3 feet SPDIF cable and it sounded the most aggressive and sibilant of the pack. I got my 18 feet Mogami 3173 AES cable custom made from Pro Audio LA for around $50-$60, so the price was well worth it.

[CanadianMaestro]

I think this length issue with digital cables is a mess. Reflections do happen, but with a well-constructed cable and quality connectors like 75-ohm BNC, there should be minimal reflections. Within reasonable lengths of wiring for average-sized gear racks and rooms.

George Cardas, who has been building audio cables for many years (and was doing telephone transmission wiring before that), says the shorter the cable, the better the fidelity for transmission. Makes sense to me. Shorter signal paths = better transmission fidelity. 

[Krutsch]

Good points there. I've had no issues with SQ of ripped FLAC when using XLD with error correction etc. In my system, WAV and FLAC sound identical, so I go with FLAC, as it takes up less space. As usual, YMMV with system specifics.

XLD is the best tool for the job, using the AccrurateRip database, without a doubt. Done successfully, you are guaranteed a perfect match with the data on the optical plastic.

Another reason to use FLAC is the BDP software really struggles with metadata when using just about any other format. Believe me, I've tried to make AIFF and WAV work and had to throw in the towel.

[Krutsch]

Also drives can sound different. I use thumb drives with the bdp-1 and I really like the sound of the Corsair Slider 115 GB.

I think there is some truth to this, as much as it bothers me to think about this.

I've used a G-drive (USB, spinning rust @ 7200 RPM), a Samsung EVO SSD and a pair of Corsair thumb drives (GS and GTX models, 256 and 512 GB).

The thumb drives draw less power and likely insert less electrical noise back into the device. I can't say I would be able to reliably distinguish the thumb drives, in a rigorous DBT, but I noticed a difference in sound with MPD playback when I moved to the Corsair drives.

For what it's worth, I am using AES/EBU output for playback into my DAC.

As always, YMMV...