[martinr]

Her's a link to instructions to configure the Gustard to upsample to DSD using Foobar:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/780385/gustard-x20-dac/585

Enjoy!   

[brother love]

I had the pleasure of auditioning the Gustard X20u a few weeks ago, courtesy of the gracious quadman  (man, this guy has a KILLER system).  I was very impressed with the X20u … a huge leap above my current entry level Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11, but I also had to factor in the well documented tweaks by quadman (pre DSD512) & his far superior equipment to mine.

Well fast forward to the here & now… I was fortunate to pick-up a lightly used X20u off the AC Trading Post.  Received it this morning & played with the X20u & HQPlayer purchased this week.  Despite my research, I struggled with the settings & interface with my Mac Mini/ USB connection.  Still though, I did get 24 bit/ 384k initially & it sounded really good.  After a little more digging & experimenting, I finally got DSD128 dialed in a couple hours ago.  Sweet !!!

I’m initially floored by the level of inner detail: the delicacy of some instruments, extended decay, finer delineation of what’s what, more information … but still very smooth sounding & not the least bit strained (I generally like tube(s) in the chain; but not missing it so far).  Super impressed ! 16 bit/ 44.1k redbook CD ripped .wav files (which is 90% of my library) have never sounded so good.

I look forward to further listening sessions, doing some of the more modest tweaks, dialing things in better, & some further upgrades (Regen, Roon for better interface than the HQ Player & Tidal. quadman had these features & I left wanting them).

Out of the gate though, it’s hard to believe that I can improve on the high quality sound that I’m hearing from the Gustard X20u. It's a keeper. 

[martinr]

Congrats Brother L.  The leap from PCM to DSD is amazing!  Glad you are enjoying it....some of the best bang for the buck audio $$ I have spent I believe.

- Martin

[mresseguie]

Quick question for X20 users:

Do you use balanced connectors or RCA connectors into you preamp? I ask because I've just ordered a new Don Sachs SP14 preamp, and I'm wondering if I should have XLR connectivity added. (I know. It is a personal decision for everyone.)

[quadman]

@brother love congratulations you will love the journey with this dac.
@mresseguie I only use single ended outputs and I am at my friends whose dac i modded and he only uses single ended.  You have to remember that balanced output doubles the output voltage to 6.6V thats a high signal to send to any preamp or amp so make sure they could handle that type of voltage.

Install of the dac and computer audio set up at my friends is going very well, he has satellite internet with widely varying speeds but we got tidal to stream just fine so he is ecstatic.  His new amps the Pass Labs Xa100.8 are the best amps I have heard and made such an impression that I must now get the smaller xa30.8 as I don't need his power level.  Right now his DSD256 may be as good or close to my 512 and I know how much of a jump 512 is over 256 so he will be in for another huge treat providing I can get 512 to play stable and install on next trip.  His SME30 TT was tweaked by Wally Malewicz and compares vary favorably to digital, the images are larger with his analog rig and that gives the effect of more presence.  The geometry of his analog sound stage is smaller and more crowded than digital but listening to either is quite a treat.  He is very pleased with the results so far.

[ACHiPo]

Quick question for X20 users:

Do you use balanced connectors or RCA connectors into you preamp? I ask because I've just ordered a new Don Sachs SP14 preamp, and I'm wondering if I should have XLR connectivity added. (I know. It is a personal decision for everyone.)

Michael,
I use balanced ICs everywhere except tonearm cables.  It's mostly dogma--I decided many years ago that balanced was a superior way to go and stuck with it--higher gain and lower noise.  The only downside is the fewer choices for gear and interconnects.  That being said I'm sure you can get equivalent and perhaps better performance with single-ended ICs.

If you do choose to go balanced, try the Darwin silver ICs--you won't be disappointed!

Evan

[PeteG]

Like Evan, I try and keep everything balanced (lower noise floor). Also my tonearm cable is single-ended.

[martinr]

Mike,

Im using single ended...wish you could have been here after I installed the dac and Richs server.  Transformational to say the least!  Michelle and I are loving it!  The Vr4's are still not as clear as the speakers you auditioned I expect but they sound soooo much better with this digital set up.  - 124 hours on the DAC and still burning in
Enjoy the new Pre-Amp!

[martinr]

So Ive been away in Denver for the past couple of days, letting the Dac burn in while away.  When I left it had 95 hours on it, it now has about 125 hours.  Holy shit what a difference has occurred over the break in time....from 69 hours to now the dac has more detail, and the presentation has really relaxed.  More air around vocals, the entire presentation has more weight, with acoustic guitars you can hear the body tone of the guitar...something Ive never heard before in my system to this level of detail  Every recording sounds better than it ever has, old or new recordings good or bad all benefit from the burn in time.  Really enjoying this!, and still not fully burned in!  The difference in sound quality and presentation compared to my old CD spinning set up is as if I went out and spent 20 grand on a new system - no BS its that good!  Im a happy camper for sure!   

- Martin

[Flyin_V]

I'm thinking about upgrading my DAC and the X20 sounds like it's an option, but I have a couple of questions.

Is the 'sound' of the X20 on the cooler, analytical side or the fuller, richer side of the spectrum?

If I use the coax or optical out of my cd player, can the X20 up sample the 16/44 cds to dsd 64 or dsd 128?

Thanks.

[martinr]

I'm thinking about upgrading my DAC and the X20 sounds like it's an option, but I have a couple of questions.

Is the 'sound' of the X20 on the cooler, analytical side or the fuller, richer side of the spectrum?

If I use the coax or optical out of my cd player, can the X20 up sample the 16/44 cds to dsd 64 or dsd 128?

Thanks.

In my opinion, so far the X20 Dac seems to be on the fuller, richer side of the spectrum although I am hearing more detail than I ever did with a CD player and my old dac.  I used the dac with a disc spinner and coaxial connection when I first received it.  I put approximately 70 hours on it in this configuration before switching to a server through USB.   So it did not fully burn it in through the card it uses for the coax connection, therefore I can't give a final opinion of the sound through the coax input.   The X20 does not upsample, it accepts upsampled DSD rates to DSD 512 if you have it configured properly and your output is DSD 512.  It will output the frequency that is input only to included native DSD. 

Hope this helps

- Martin

[Flyin_V]

That does clarify it.

Thanks Martin.

[brother love]

I've added an Uptone Audio Regen Amber to the Gustard X20u equation which is nice. I also replaced both tranny carbon steel bolts/washers/nuts with nylon versions & inserted underneath 2 layers of cardboard doughnuts w/ sticky-sided tape. Wiring bundles twisted & reattached. Next step is finding copper film or insert a hi-fi fuse (see it's 0.5 amp/ 250v slo-blow fuse).

Anyways, everything is connected & playing music. Will do some serious listening later today.

Edit: updated to include loosely tightened nylon bolts/washers/nuts & successfully finding fuse.

[martinr]

Good job Brother...do you hear a noticeable improvement with your mods?

[brother love]

Good job Brother...do you hear a noticeable improvement with your mods?

Thanks. martinr. Haven't had a chance yet.  Still want to try the copper over the fuse as part of the tweaks before auditioning the "sum of the parts". Found this, but it is very thin (30 micron= .0012"): https://www.amazon.com/Copper-Foil-Shielding-Tape-Guitars/dp/B00KLJLNWE/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1470069723&sr=8-8&keywords=copper+foil. Not sure what is thick enough not to tear vs. thin enough to fit properly.

Many thanks to Ric Schultz, quadman & others for their insights to these upgrades & reviews. 

vvv  Thanks quadman! I sent you an email.  vvv

[quadman]

@brother love I see you got a newer production X20 with the accusilicon clock and it looks like, thou I am not certain, it has only 1 LVDS chip on the output board right by the white ribbon cable.  That would mean it would be May or so production.  They apparently changed the fuse as well, mine is a 1A 250V sloblo, well was, as the foil essentially removes the fuse.  If you need I have some foil you can use on the fuse, I can bring to work tomorrow and you can pick up there.

I am now feeling confident on the stability of DSD512 playback.  I have had almost zero noise the last few days and any noise was noted right after re-powering the dac back up (and hence the clock).  After it was under power for a few hours the noise seems to go away.  The key to this, I believe, is solid and very stable connections at the I2s lines, any instability will lead to noise.  The dac is working to it's limit at 512 and any little thing that is off produces noise.  I also found put the cover on the dac, which means the I2S wires must be short 50mm or so to allow this.  I even made little spacers out of credit card to slip in the PCIe slot which puts some pressure on the wires making better contact with the I2S wires from the DIY card.

Next project is to solder in a 100MHz clock on the output board near the dac chips, Simon reports that this kicks up the transparency up another notch.  In preparation for this I removed my custom silver coax cable and re-installed the stock coax cable   I noted a slight loss in transparency and involvement in the music.  piano/keyboard which I think are almost magical at DSD512 lost some of that magic with the stock coax.  I have two different clocks to try the accusilicon one and a abracon one which is power hungry so I will need a bigger regulator then I have to run that one.  I am pretty busy the next couple of weekends so not sure when I will get to this, but that stock coax may push me to do sooner than later.

[martinr]

@brother love I see you got a newer production X20 with the accusilicon clock and it looks like, thou I am not certain, it has only 1 LVDS chip on the output board right by the white ribbon cable.  That would mean it would be May or so production.  They apparently changed the fuse as well, mine is a 1A 250V sloblo, well was, as the foil essentially removes the fuse.  If you need I have some foil you can use on the fuse, I can bring to work tomorrow and you can pick up there.

I am now feeling confident on the stability of DSD512 playback.  I have had almost zero noise the last few days and any noise was noted right after re-powering the dac back up (and hence the clock).  After it was under power for a few hours the noise seems to go away.  The key to this, I believe, is solid and very stable connections at the I2s lines, any instability will lead to noise.  The dac is working to it's limit at 512 and any little thing that is off produces noise.  I also found put the cover on the dac, which means the I2S wires must be short 50mm or so to allow this.  I even made little spacers out of credit card to slip in the PCIe slot which puts some pressure on the wires making better contact with the I2S wires from the DIY card.

Next project is to solder in a 100MHz clock on the output board near the dac chips, Simon reports that this kicks up the transparency up another notch.  In preparation for this I removed my custom silver coax cable and re-installed the stock coax cable   I noted a slight loss in transparency and involvement in the music.  piano/keyboard which I think are almost magical at DSD512 lost some of that magic with the stock coax.  I have two different clocks to try the accusilicon one and a abracon one which is power hungry so I will need a bigger regulator then I have to run that one.  I am pretty busy the next couple of weekends so not sure when I will get to this, but that stock coax may push me to do sooner than later.

Damn!

[DaveC113]

@brother love I see you got a newer production X20 with the accusilicon clock and it looks like, thou I am not certain, it has only 1 LVDS chip on the output board right by the white ribbon cable.  That would mean it would be May or so production.  They apparently changed the fuse as well, mine is a 1A 250V sloblo, well was, as the foil essentially removes the fuse.  If you need I have some foil you can use on the fuse, I can bring to work tomorrow and you can pick up there.

I am now feeling confident on the stability of DSD512 playback.  I have had almost zero noise the last few days and any noise was noted right after re-powering the dac back up (and hence the clock).  After it was under power for a few hours the noise seems to go away.  The key to this, I believe, is solid and very stable connections at the I2s lines, any instability will lead to noise.  The dac is working to it's limit at 512 and any little thing that is off produces noise.  I also found put the cover on the dac, which means the I2S wires must be short 50mm or so to allow this.  I even made little spacers out of credit card to slip in the PCIe slot which puts some pressure on the wires making better contact with the I2S wires from the DIY card.

Next project is to solder in a 100MHz clock on the output board near the dac chips, Simon reports that this kicks up the transparency up another notch.  In preparation for this I removed my custom silver coax cable and re-installed the stock coax cable   I noted a slight loss in transparency and involvement in the music.  piano/keyboard which I think are almost magical at DSD512 lost some of that magic with the stock coax.  I have two different clocks to try the accusilicon one and a abracon one which is power hungry so I will need a bigger regulator then I have to run that one.  I am pretty busy the next couple of weekends so not sure when I will get to this, but that stock coax may push me to do sooner than later.

For that critical digital wiring you might want to try thin gauge UPOCC silver... for short runs a single run is probably ok, for longer runs multiple runs in a litz configuration is much better than coax.

[quadman]

For that critical digital wiring you might want to try thin gauge UPOCC silver... for short runs a single run is probably ok, for longer runs multiple runs in a litz configuration is much better than coax.

Dave I was planning on using Chris Venhaus 24 ga silver with air lock insulation.  The wire is only 10mm long or so, tricky soldering in such a tight place.  I hadn't heard of the UPOCC wire but it looks interesting, think I'll have to get some for inventory.

Update after listening last night I have to solder in that clock, since my PSU's have been reconfigured I will initially use the Gustards 3.3V supply to power the clock, and then down the road switch to a separate PSU with a nice regulator at the clock.  That coax just smooths things over a touch to much and dulls the leading edges, 5 hours of listening last night made me say, I need to replace the clock much sooner than later.  I should be able to get it done in an hour or so and then wednesday listen away.  Fingers crossed.

In the 5 hours I listened last night there was NO noise, the dac had been on since early Sunday afternoon so the clock is happy and warm.  I expect after the new clock goes in it will need 24 hours or so to settle down and give noise free music.

[quadman]

After a 24 hour warm up with signal, I listened to the new clock last night.  This clock does away with the need for the coax cable which only carries the clock signal from the far side of the digital board to the output board, the new clock, of course, eliminates the need for that cable.  Now considering I went from custom coax cable, then back to stock coax cable (yuk) then to new clock, major upgrade.  The custom silver coax is a nice jump up from the stock coax and the clock is another nice jump up from the custom coax.  More transparency, quieter backgrounds, wider deeper stage, more dynamics great tonality.  One one track I've played over 60 times the past 2 months there is a piano or keyboard added to the foreground mix the clarity of it and individual notes from it were the best I have ever heard, it just had more separation then any other time, on another well listened to track of a voice and acoustic guitar recorded in a studio the bounce of his voice off the studio wall and the decay of it was the most pronounced and detailed I had ever hear by far.  Familiar tracks after track kept revealing more information then I heard before.  Not hyper detailed information, the kind that tires you out just natural real music with more there.  6 hours of listening and no funny noises from the 512 setting.  Very pleased.

Next down the road I'll try the other clock in my possession, but that needs a separate PSU and bigger regulator than I have now.