Balanced vs Unbalanced.

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fercruz

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Balanced vs Unbalanced.
« on: 11 May 2016, 01:05 am »
Hi,

I'm planning on ordering a pair of STA-9s (bridged) and a DAC-9 to pair with Dynaudios C1 Signatures.

Couple of questions. Are the STA-9s and DAC-9 truly balanced designs? (not that I know what that really means)

Is there a benefit to connect the DAC-9 to the STA-9s using balanced cables?

Thanks!

Armaegis

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Re: Balanced vs Unbalanced.
« Reply #1 on: 11 May 2016, 04:28 pm »
Balanced interconnects have a lower chance to pick up external noise. If there are dirty electricity issues, then balanced is also more immune to those effects.

Speedskater

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  • Kevin
Re: Balanced vs Unbalanced.
« Reply #2 on: 11 May 2016, 04:39 pm »
A balanced interconnect system is one thing, a balanced internal circuit is another.
From a 'good engineering practice' point of view a balanced interconnect system is always better than an unbalanced one. But for a small system with short cables (say 3 meters/10 feet) the difference won't be audible. However, long cables to remote amplifiers or active speakers should be balanced if the inputs are balanced.

drumnman2

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Re: Balanced vs Unbalanced.
« Reply #3 on: 11 May 2016, 06:38 pm »
I have an Sta 9 and had a Dac 9. I tried both connections and couldn't really hear a difference try as I might. You can actually hook up both and just flip the switch on the amp between bal. and unbal. to try. I thought the combo was a little too warm in MY system. I kept the Sta 9 (will get another) and got an Oppo 105d hooked straight into the Sta 9 which might be a little too much in the opposite direction for me. Anyway I use the balanced connections because I just like the solid connection.

downunder55

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Re: Balanced vs Unbalanced.
« Reply #4 on: 12 May 2016, 01:10 am »
I have an Sta 9 and had a Dac 9. .............................. I thought the combo was a little too warm in MY system...

What speakers are you running ? ............ I have some KEF LS50's and thinking of this combo and had this concern of them being too warm

rustydoglim

Re: Balanced vs Unbalanced.
« Reply #5 on: 12 May 2016, 02:53 am »
All our products are true balanced design.
STA-9 as stated sounded like tube amp and if you find it to be "too warm", check out the Amp Comparison Guide on the website for other amps, such as ST-10.

JackD

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Re: Balanced vs Unbalanced.
« Reply #6 on: 12 May 2016, 03:52 am »
Drumnman2

From my perspective you sold the wrong piece.  I would have sold the STA-9 and paired the DAC-9 with the ST-10. Now your choice to even out the STA-9 is a neutral DAC like the DAC-10 or others.

rustydoglim

Re: Balanced vs Unbalanced.
« Reply #7 on: 12 May 2016, 04:11 am »
STA-9 with DAC-10 is actually an exceptional combination. 

JackD

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Re: Balanced vs Unbalanced.
« Reply #8 on: 12 May 2016, 04:16 am »
Jason

I have to admit that Mark was right about the ST-10, it is an exceptional amp especially for the price.  I am using it with a Modwright tube preamp and it is a great combo. Still need to try the DAC-9 and see how it compares to my DAC-10.

fercruz

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Re: Balanced vs Unbalanced.
« Reply #9 on: 12 May 2016, 10:22 am »
Thanks everyone. I'll use the unbalanced just because I already have a nice pair of cables.

I chose the DAC 9/STA 9 (monos) based on auditions at a friends house driving the same speakers that I have. I had the ARC VSi60, and while a great integrated, the Dyns need current and grip for decent bass. I also auditioned the Devialet 200, but it is lean and sterile IMO (although great bass control). The DAC 9/STA 9 (monos) hit that sweet spot that I like. The warmth of tubes/correctly implemented Class A and the grip of a 300 w SS amp. The price of NuPrime stuff?  - Well that's just awesome.

Thanks!

Speedskater

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  • Kevin
Re: Balanced vs Unbalanced.
« Reply #10 on: 12 May 2016, 12:12 pm »
All our products are true balanced design.
I'm not sure what 'true balanced' means:
a] All internal circuits a balanced?
b] Interconnect system inputs and outputs are balanced?
c] Balanced interconnect output is active (rather than impedance or transformer)?
d] A copyrighted term?

drumnman2

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Re: Balanced vs Unbalanced.
« Reply #11 on: 12 May 2016, 12:28 pm »
What speakers are you running ? ............ I have some KEF LS50's and thinking of this combo and had this concern of them being too warm
I think the combo would be great with LS50. I am using Sonus Faber Venere 2.0 right now w/sub. What I felt was that the detail was there with the Dac 9 but the leading/attacking edges were just a little soft compared to the dac in the Oppo. But the Oppo dac can be a little shouty/forward at times but your getting what is there I think. That's my opinion anyhow, some say they all sound the same so.............

John Casler

Re: Balanced vs Unbalanced.
« Reply #12 on: 12 May 2016, 06:30 pm »
STA-9 with DAC-10 is actually an exceptional combination.

While "ALL" component choices will perform based on Listening Environment, other SYSTEM Components, your Hearing Ability, and your Listening Preferences, I can assure everyone, that BOTH combinations can be EXCEPTIONAL in the SPECIFIC Systems.

I have recently Spend a LOT of time in front of the DAC-10 and "Bridged" STA-9 (in the form of the K-38, 4 channels in bridged mode) and while I will be writing a full review, have NEVER heard ANY AMP, at ANY PRICE sound better.

In fact, I doubted my hearing to the point that I pulled a fellow AudioPhile with GOLDEN EARS in to also listen to the combo, and he promptly (as in the next day) purchased a K-38 (which is basically 4 STA-9's in a box), and has another K-38 on order.

Now, I have not heard the ST-10 with the DAC-9, so I cannot comment 100%, but if it is anywhere even close, it will be spectacular.

What I have heard is the DAC-10 and ST-10 in an A/B with the K-38/STA-9, and that is really a tough call.

The ST-10 certainly does sound slightly different, but NOT in any negative way.  Biggest difference (and this was small) may have been noticeable on "striking" instruments like the hammers on piano notes and leading edge dynamics on drum strikes.  It is kinda like the difference between "Old Fashioned" Vanilla, and "French" Vanilla. they BOTH taste incredible, but different in subtle sensations.

Maybe an ever so slightly dryer sonic that could be valuable with silky smooth, or softer speakers.

The excitement to this, is that BOTH of these amps are GIANT KILLERS supreme, and I would put them up against ANY AMP at ANY PRICE, that has the same power level.

Why pay $10,000 for this sonic purity, when it is available for far less.

rustydoglim

Re: Balanced vs Unbalanced.
« Reply #13 on: 13 May 2016, 06:21 am »
Jason

I have to admit that Mark was right about the ST-10, it is an exceptional amp especially for the price.  I am using it with a Modwright tube preamp and it is a great combo. Still need to try the DAC-9 and see how it compares to my DAC-10.

I think audiophiles could get two difference systems in their home so that they can swap components  :thumb:
For the price I don't think any other brands could compete for performance and value.

rustydoglim

Re: Balanced vs Unbalanced.
« Reply #14 on: 13 May 2016, 07:08 am »
Quote
In fact, I doubted my hearing to the point that I pulled a fellow AudioPhile with GOLDEN EARS in to also listen to the combo, and he promptly (as in the next day) purchased a K-38 (which is basically 4 STA-9's in a box), and has another K-38 on order.

K-38 amp is similar but not the same as STA-9.  Basically if you find STA-9 to be a little too warm for your liking, then go with K-38.
I can't stress enough that everyone should study the Amp Comparison Guide (http://www.nuprimeaudio.com/index.php/reviews/amp-comparison.html).  We put a lot of effort into ensuring its objectivity.

We are an engineering company and I can proudly say that (credit goes to our engineering team) we can now control Class-D and hybrid designs like a master chef and make anything we want. So these amps were designed based on science not ad hoc audiophile tweak.
K-39 design goal is to be a reference class (oh well, all our amps are reference class so I should stop saying this) amp for music listening as well as watching movies.  So the design has to achieve a good balance.
STA-9 is really targeting the best of tube and class D strength.
ST-10 and IDA-16 are leaning toward the clean and neutral side. 
So there is something for everyone. 

So what's next? Continue to lower the price. More importantly, figure out a way to allow user to change the characteristic of an amp.  Theoretically this is possible with multiple implementation of the designs on the same board. But this is not the same as changing parts or applying EQ.  10 and even 5 years ago we were still talking about SNR and THD+N.  But now they are so low that the numbers are not very meaningful.

Armaegis

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Re: Balanced vs Unbalanced.
« Reply #15 on: 13 May 2016, 10:10 pm »
So what's next? Continue to lower the price. More importantly, figure out a way to allow user to change the characteristic of an amp. 

What options are you considering to do this... dsp options? physical switches that alter internal amp characteristics? swappable opamps? others?
A modular system would be very cool, but I foresee that becoming a logistical/warranty nightmare.

rustydoglim

Re: Balanced vs Unbalanced.
« Reply #16 on: 15 May 2016, 08:27 am »
Physical.  We don't know how to use DSP to model a tube amp or Class A amp, and I don't think anyone knows either. Even if it can be done it will be too expensive (probably a lot of computing power)
Therefore this is a difficult problem because it is not so easy to modularise the design.