[JettaGLi16v]

Hey, Charlie.

Thanks for the reply.

Yeah, they are $300, each, and they recommend replacing all 4 at the same time.
So basically $1200, which means I am into them at $2300 total.

My only concern is that I don't want to have other issues later. I wouldn't want to put that money into them, and have a midrange fail later or something. (But, according to VSA, the only real problem is the woofer surrounds)

I'll get the socks off as soon as I have a day off, and see what went wrong. If it's just a torn surround, I may send it to a local speaker shop that can repair it. Otherwise, if its a burned VC or something, I think I'll be biting the bullet and replacing all 4 woofers...

Thanks again...
-Brad

[es347]

Seems strange that cost of everything goes up and up and up and our income doesn't.
 I mean not only audio gear but everything we buy. Thank the guy in the sky I can still
 afford a BIG!!!  bottle of VODKA!!!

                                                  Cheers
                                               Charlie

..hey Charlie if you're gonna spring for the good stuff Tito's vodka should be on your short list

[leif8660]

Dang it!!

I have a blown woofer.......

I'm beyond gutted.

After a bit of playing, and isolating, one of the woofers has a definite 'flapping' noise, which I assume is a torn surround (though it is a bit scratchy as well. Could be a toasted voice coil)...


I can get new drivers from VSA at $300, but Madisound offers an Audax driver that they say is compatible, and seems very similiar in spec to what I would get from VSA.

Anyone offer any advice for this? I'm totally torn between seeing if the guy I bought them from will take them back, or just biting the bullet.

Advice? Morale boost?

Thanks.......
-Brad

I'm not aware of any Audax woofers that meet the same specs of the existing bass drivers. If you send me the driver model number of the Audax I can tell you what it is going to do.   Yes you will get sound if installed but the performance may not match.  Sensitivity, freq response, Fs, z curve, and the list goes on.  The enclosures and the crossovers were designed based of those driver specs.  Unless they are almost identical, the speaker will not perform optimum.  If you replace those woofers those things will rock:)

[Rocket]

Hi,

Just wondering if the woofer was damaged when you first bought the speakers.  You didn't mention how the damage occurred.  If they weren't working correctly when you bought them perhaps ask for a refund.

I'd personally buy the correct woofers if it was me if you can't have it repaired.

Cheers Rod

[JettaGLi16v]

Thanks for all the advice.

I wholeheartedly don't believe the woofers were damaged before I purchased the speakers. I have bought my fair share of used gear, and I put my ear a few inches away from each driver, to listen to any weird noises, and didn't hear any.

It's all just guessing until I get the socks off and drivers out, but here is my theory:
-I brought them home (2 Hr drive on the highway), with the M/T cabinets in the back seat, and the woofer cabinets hanging out of the back trunk (with the stands sticking out).

Two things are possible from this:
1) It bounced hard on the unforgiving lip of my trunk, and dislodged a voice coil (My suspension is less compliant that average)
2) Because the trunk was propped open, resting on the speakers, there would have been a lot of air currents and gusts in the trunk. I can imagine that a strong enough gust blowing into the port could have torn a surround? I was doing 80-90 mph most of the way. That obviously should not trouble a good surround, but if these are 20 years old, and were beginning to fail, I can see that pushing it over the edge.


The driver Madisound recommends is an Audax HM130C0 (or maybe HM13OCO). All I know is VSA had recommended a newer driver with a CF cone, and this is the one Madisound also recommends.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-5-woofers/audax-hm130c0-5.25-carbon-fiber-cone-woofer/

I know I don't want to install a driver that will perform improperly, and I don't have an issue shelling out the $1200 to VSA, but I dont want to pay a premium just to get it from them if they are using something off the shelf.

Thanks!
-Brad

[JettaGLi16v]

I'm a dummy...

I have been notified via PM that the driver I referenced is a replacement for the midrange in the upper cabinet.
I need to commit to getting these socks off in the next day or 2 to figure out what is actually bad.

I'll update then.

-Brad

[leif8660]

I can speak to the bi amping a little bit.  I have the jr's and typically VSA speakers like more juice than 100 W.  That should be OK for the high / mids, but I would expect the woofers to want more power.  I would probably at least double that to 200 W if possible.

I went thru a lot of trial and error for the sensitivity issue.  Started w/ attenuators and ultimately "guessed" a value of about 7 dB and had them custom made.

I had my jr's upgraded and they came back as 4 Ohms across the cabinet so I no longer struggled with the matching.

I have a friend that owns jr's and has used this device successfully to match the levels...

http://ciaudio.com/products/VPC3

Good luck!

How are those working out for you:)

[Escott1377]

How are those working out for you:)

The jr's that you guys sent back to me are most likely going to be my last pair of speakers.  I asked a few questions while you guys were in Denver about open baffle, but I just can't sell this pair b/c I know I can never get them back.

Unfortunately they are outperforming the subs I have paired with him so that upgrade will cost me in the future, nothing immediate however.

Sorry to hijack...

[leif8660]

The jr's that you guys sent back to me are most likely going to be my last pair of speakers.  I asked a few questions while you guys were in Denver about open baffle, but I just can't sell this pair b/c I know I can never get them back.

Unfortunately they are outperforming the subs I have paired with him so that upgrade will cost me in the future, nothing immediate however.

Sorry to hijack...

When you have some free time, lets talk about your set up.  I may be able to help:)

[martinr]

I'm a dummy...

I have been notified via PM that the driver I referenced is a replacement for the midrange in the upper cabinet.
I need to commit to getting these socks off in the next day or 2 to figure out what is actually bad.

I'll update then.

-Brad

Brad -

Did you get your speaker repaired?  I purchased a pair of VR 4 next gen III Hovlands new in the box about 4 years ago.....one of the mid tweeters in the upper cabinets went out and I sent the cabinet back to Von Schweikert for repair.  Lief was great to work with and although the replacement wasn't cheap, I felt it was worth it to keep the integrity of the speaker.  As far as amplifying, Albert recommends using a S.E.T. for the top cabinets.  I have hear these at a friends house with audio valve amps running the bottom cabinets and a Audion S.E.T. amp running the top cabinets.....best sound I have ever heard IMHO....I'm currently bi-amping mine with Odyssey Kismet hybrids...haven't made the jump to tri-amping but that will be my next big upgrade....will need a new stereo rack to accommodate, maybe next year.  Good luck with your speakers.
- Martin

[JettaGLi16v]

Hey, Martin.

Thanks for the question!

It's been a rough few months. I bought a new car (1981 VW Rabbit Diesel pickup), so I started playing extensively with it. Old cars are so fun to work on. Then I took a short vacation, and came back ill, then I trashed my back, ....

But anyway, I'm back on the case. I'll be breaking down the lower cabinets over the weekend, and calling Leif on Monday to confirm a direction going forward.

Hope to update soon!
-Brad

[danabunner]

Which way did you go?

The original VR-4 (Gen 1) used fairly inexpensive, common woofers.  I once chatted with a guy who worked at the VS New York manufacturing facility, where he hand coated those drivers with some kind of epoxy / varnish to stiffen the cones.  I believe he told me that they were Peerless drivers, but I'm not sure on that.  But I believe that particular woofer has gone out of production, so matching would be a problem (especially considering that coat of varnish).   Might even be cheaper to buy an old VR-4 than to purchase a complete set of woofers! 

[russe41]

I bought my VS VR4 Gen III HSE's maybe 10 years ago or so and did love them.
But as you know audiophiles are always wondering about other speakers and finally
decided to get a pair of Innersound Eros with external Behringer X-over,(in heaven with small jazz sets) there is just something about Stats
that dynamic just can't do!
But I refuse to get rid of the VR4's as they are in my closet covered, warm and cozy. I bring them out once and a while
to get some use and to remember my first really good speaker.

[JettaGLi16v]

OK,
If anyone's still out there, I believe I am back in business!!
(I had the VR4's that had some issues after purchase...)
I called the guy I bought the VR4's from, he felt really bad about it. He offered a set of Green Mountain Audio's as a replacement, but I really liked the VR4's.

I found a place a few towns over (~2 hr drive) that has been in business for 40 years, and was highly recommended by the guy I bought the VR4's from. He took them in, and found & replaced the wiring from the terminal to the voice coil on one woofer, as well as making new socks for all 4 cabinets, and giving everything a thorough cleaning. I brought them back home, and still had a very faint crackling noise from another woofer (only audible at low volume). I brought them back again, and he replaced a voice coil in one woofer, and they now sound perfect. I have maybe 10-20 hours on them now, and I'm over the moon! They really are beautiful sounding speakers.

These speakers are a serious mother to move. I mean, really.... I basically have 6 load in / outs of my car, and 10 hours of driving with them, and when I put them in place for the last time, I was halfway serious when I said if they weren't perfect, I was going to drag them out to the curb and forget about them. I don't know what the lower cabinet weighs, but it's plenty!

So, I bought a new pre-pro 2 days ago (marantz AV7702Mkii - XLR outs, and I can EQ dual subs individually). After I get that set up, I'll be looking to re-set the room to get the VR4's a bit further away from the wall, and then I'll look into a different amp for the mid/tweet cabinet. Hopefully I can find a decent amp for a grand or 2.

Hooray! It was a hard fought battle, but I am finally victorious!
Thanks for all your help and moral support!

[rich58b]

Hi Brad,
You, in your first post, mentioned looking into the Anthem D2's, and I thought I'd mention my experience with them. I have the D2, which is pretty amazing in it's ability to upgrade picture quality. Sound quality, for a AV processor, is on par with the best of them. My amp is the Anthem Statement A5 which I just sent into Anthem for repair and they replaced the caps as well as a few other things, and it came back a whole new amplifier. It really makes my VR33's sing. I was looking to replace it with a Macintosh if I could find an affordable one, but I'm now totally happy with my A5. I have them bi-wired with VS's MasterBuilt cables and it's a magic combo. If you haven't completed your amp setup, you might consider the Anthems. And, if you can find an affordable pair of MasterBuilt cables on Audiogon, they are pretty amazing in what they will do for your sound.

[JettaGLi16v]

Hey, Rich,

Thanks for the additional info! I have loved Paradigm for 20 years, and Anthem is an extension of them, so I'm sure I'd love it as well. I'll keep my eyes open for Anthem amps to compliment the package!

[sumoking]

Kernelbob-
I was with SoundQuest Audio and Video back in the day and Albert came over to my house...  I was in South Lyon.... I think I remember you buying the VR 6's...
Sound familiar ?
Best-
Bill...