HT2-TL or Veracity ST

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Hifiquest

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HT2-TL or Veracity ST
« on: 29 Jun 2017, 04:23 pm »
Hi,

I am new to this forum but not the obsession of great sounding audio equipment. I have been looking for new speakers for a while now to replace a pair of Mission 753 towers and have narrowed my choice to either the HT2-TL or the Veracity ST. I have read the posts on this forum with great interest.  I have also been in contact with Jim several times and he has been immensely helpful and I am leaning towards the VST due to the smaller footprint. However I do not want to always think I should have gone bigger. Has anyone here owned both or heard them side by side. I understand they are very close in performance terms and I have the room for either as long as they are front ported. My room is approx. 25ft x 16ft with vaulted ceilings going from 12 to 15 ft. They would be placed around 9ft apart. I also have 2 SVS SB13 Ultras which I cross at 40hz for music with my current speakers but I’m thinking I might like to move away from doing that if I could. Thanks in advance for any advice.

Ace Deprave

Re: HT2-TL or Veracity ST
« Reply #1 on: 29 Jun 2017, 05:11 pm »
Hi,

I am new to this forum but not the obsession of great sounding audio equipment. I have been looking for new speakers for a while now to replace a pair of Mission 753 towers and have narrowed my choice to either the HT2-TL or the Veracity ST. I have read the posts on this forum with great interest.  I have also been in contact with Jim several times and he has been immensely helpful and I am leaning towards the VST due to the smaller footprint. However I do not want to always think I should have gone bigger. Has anyone here owned both or heard them side by side. I understand they are very close in performance terms and I have the room for either as long as they are front ported. My room is approx. 25ft x 16ft with vaulted ceilings going from 12 to 15 ft. They would be placed around 9ft apart. I also have 2 SVS SB13 Ultras which I cross at 40hz for music with my current speakers but I’m thinking I might like to move away from doing that if I could. Thanks in advance for any advice.

From what I understand, they is almost no difference in the way they sound. I'm happy with my VSTs, and if you're crossing them to subs, I doubt you'd ever notice a difference.


R Swerdlow

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Re: HT2-TL or Veracity ST
« Reply #2 on: 29 Jun 2017, 06:59 pm »
the HT2-TL or the Veracity ST.

I am leaning towards the VST due to the smaller footprint.

Has anyone here owned both or heard them side by side. I understand they are very close in performance terms and I have the room for either as long as they are front ported.

My room is approx. 25ft x 16ft with vaulted ceilings going from 12 to 15 ft. They would be placed around 9ft apart.
For a long time I craved HT2-TLs, but I chose VSTs over them for the smaller footprint.  I had previously owned SongTowers which have an identical footprint to the VSTs.  The larger HT2-TLs will not fit with my furniture arrangement and floor plan.

My room is similar in area to yours, but I have 9' ceilings, not vaulted ceilings as you do.  The VSTs easily fill the room with sound, without using a sub woofer.  Salk recommends 100 watts/channel, but 200 w/ch doesn't hurt, although I suspect the amp is loafing with those speakers.

I had heard HT2-TLs enough in the past to be familiar with them, but I hadn't heard the VST until I received mine.  Jim is right that they sound very similar.  Like Ace Deprave, I'm very happy with these speakers.

Why do you want front ported?  I found, both with my STs and my VSTs, that the rear port in the transmission line design cabinet worked well when the backs of the cabinets are about one foot away from the wall behind them.  Just for grins, I tried moving them as close to the wall as possible (~3-4"), but the bass sound never suffered.  Jim is familiar with this issue, so I'd go with what he recommends.

Hifiquest

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Re: HT2-TL or Veracity ST
« Reply #3 on: 29 Jun 2017, 08:30 pm »
From what I understand, they is almost no difference in the way they sound. I'm happy with my VSTs, and if you're crossing them to subs, I doubt you'd ever notice a difference.


Thanks a nice looking setup, i'm still on the fence as to using my subs in my new setup

Hifiquest

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Re: HT2-TL or Veracity ST
« Reply #4 on: 29 Jun 2017, 08:44 pm »
For a long time I craved HT2-TLs, but I chose VSTs over them for the smaller footprint.  I had previously owned SongTowers which have an identical footprint to the VSTs.  The larger HT2-TLs will not fit with my furniture arrangement and floor plan.

My room is similar in area to yours, but I have 9' ceilings, not vaulted ceilings as you do.  The VSTs easily fill the room with sound, without using a sub woofer.  Salk recommends 100 watts/channel, but 200 w/ch doesn't hurt, although I suspect the amp is loafing with those speakers.

I had heard HT2-TLs enough in the past to be familiar with them, but I hadn't heard the VST until I received mine.  Jim is right that they sound very similar.  Like Ace Deprave, I'm very happy with these speakers.

Why do you want front ported?  I found, both with my STs and my VSTs, that the rear port in the transmission line design cabinet worked well when the backs of the cabinets are about one foot away from the wall behind them.  Just for grins, I tried moving them as close to the wall as possible (~3-4"), but the bass sound never suffered.  Jim is familiar with this issue, so I'd go with what he recommends.
Thanks for the info. Yes I was considering rear ports but in conversation with Jim he advised front ports would give me more placement flexibility as I cannot get more than around 8 inches away from the rear wall. If I was to front port I would go with a slotted port as I think the round front port detracts from the look of the speaker. Its interesting though that you can get really close to the rear wall with rear ports and not affect the overall sound quality, that may make me re think the front port option. Perhaps TL loaded cabinets are less sensitive than reflex ported enclosures, just guessing on my part.

R Swerdlow

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Re: HT2-TL or Veracity ST
« Reply #5 on: 29 Jun 2017, 10:01 pm »
Thanks for the info. Yes I was considering rear ports but in conversation with Jim he advised front ports would give me more placement flexibility as I cannot get more than around 8 inches away from the rear wall.
The wooden plinth is larger (10×14") than the speaker tower itself (8×12").  It's also attached asymmetrically – there's more plinth extending at the rear than in the front.  I can't get mine any closer to the wall than 3-4".
Perhaps TL loaded cabinets are less sensitive than reflex ported enclosures, just guessing on my part.
That's what Paul Kittinger said years ago when the SongTower first was produced.  He designed the cabinets for the Salk MLTL speakers including the SongTower, Veracity TL, HT2-TL, etc.  Dennis Murphy confirmed this with his various MLTL speakers.

I don't think you'll hurt anything with front slot ports, and as Jim says, it will allow greater flexibility.  My experience, in my room, with SongTowers and with Veracity STs has been that the standard rear port presents no problems at all.

Paul K.

Re: HT2-TL or Veracity ST
« Reply #6 on: 29 Jun 2017, 10:53 pm »
Just to back up what Richard said, all of the speakers I build for personal use are TLs, some with mass-loaded and some with tapered lines, and due to my room limitations, all of them sit close to the wall, with the distance between their backs and the wall varying from ~4" to 9".  I've never heard a problem from their rear-located ports or termini due to that close proximity to the wall.
Paul

The wooden plinth is larger (10×14") than the speaker tower itself (8×12").  It's also attached asymmetrically – there's more plinth extending at the rear than in the front.  I can't get mine any closer to the wall than 3-4".That's what Paul Kittinger said years ago when the SongTower first was produced.  He designed the cabinets for the Salk MLTL speakers including the SongTower, Veracity TL, HT2-TL, etc.  Dennis Murphy confirmed this with his various MLTL speakers.

I don't think you'll hurt anything with front slot ports, and as Jim says, it will allow greater flexibility.  My experience, in my room, with SongTowers and with Veracity STs has been that the standard rear port presents no problems at all.

Rocket

Re: HT2-TL or Veracity ST
« Reply #7 on: 30 Jun 2017, 01:51 pm »
Hi,

Have you considered the Song3-A speakers?  They are cheaper in price and they use the amazing accuton midrange driver.  I have a pair of Salk Sound HT3's and they sound very good.  They use a SEAS mid bass driver. 

Cheers Rod

Art_Chicago

Re: HT2-TL or Veracity ST
« Reply #8 on: 30 Jun 2017, 02:12 pm »
^

I agree.  It also depends on music preferences - if you like classical or big band music, you should get 3-way speakers. For rock/small scale jazz/chamber either model would work just fine, and I heard most of the Salk speakers at Axponas.

Hifiquest

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Re: HT2-TL or Veracity ST
« Reply #9 on: 30 Jun 2017, 05:36 pm »
Just to back up what Richard said, all of the speakers I build for personal use are TLs, some with mass-loaded and some with tapered lines, and due to my room limitations, all of them sit close to the wall, with the distance between their backs and the wall varying from ~4" to 9".  I've never heard a problem from their rear-located ports or termini due to that close proximity to the wall.
Paul

Thanks Paul and Richard. That's a good point about the plinth dimensions. I measured last night and found I can get around 12 inches out from the wall, I just dont want to come to far out as folks may walk into them in my room layout.

Hi,

Have you considered the Song3-A speakers?  They are cheaper in price and they use the amazing accuton midrange driver.  I have a pair of Salk Sound HT3's and they sound very good.  They use a SEAS mid bass driver. 

Cheers Rod

Thanks Rod. I had not considered Song 3's but will take a look. My musical taste is quite broad. From Sting, Jools Holland, and a lot of female vocals like  Katie Melua, Sarah McLachlan to Rush and Marillion at the other end of the spectrum and of course movies as well. I have auditioned the following speakers so far:

1) Revel F206. This was in a dealer not my home but I did not like it at all, I found it thin and lacking in bass, could have been the dealer set up though.
2) Revel Studio 2. Again this was at a dealer. Sounded great but the price is well beyond my means.
3) Aperion Grand Verus Towers Mk2. These are actually pretty good but not very refined, just as you think you like them they play a note which made me say these are not for me. Also they have a very narrow window of operation volume wise. At lower levels they are a little flat and at higher levels the get a little loutish for want of a better expression.

So all this leads me here because I think my hard earned cash is better spent on anything Jim has to offer and he has been really helpful with my journey thus far plus you end up with two beautifully finished pieces of furniture as well. However buying blind is also unnerving, that's why I'm so appreciative of hearing other owners experiences.

R Swerdlow

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Re: HT2-TL or Veracity ST
« Reply #10 on: 30 Jun 2017, 05:55 pm »
Thanks Paul and Richard. That's a good point about the plinth dimensions. I measured last night and found I can get around 12 inches out from the wall, I just dont want to come to far out as folks may walk into them in my room layout.
If you can get the rear of the speaker 12" out from the wall, you should have no problems with a rear port on MLTL towers, such as the Veracity ST.

I had not considered Song 3's but will take a look.
They are worth considering, but remember there are three different Song3 models, the Song3, Song3-A, and Song3 Encore, all at different prices.  The Song3 and 3-A cabinets are 9.5" wide × 14.5" deep (not including plinth), and the 3 Encore cabinet is 11.5" wide × 17" deep.  Size matters.
… So all this leads me here because I think my hard earned cash is better spent on anything Jim has to offer and he has been really helpful with my journey thus far plus you end up with two beautifully finished pieces of furniture as well. However buying blind is also unnerving, that's why I'm so appreciative of hearing other owners experiences.
Where are you located?  If you're not far from Maryland near Washington, DC, you are welcome to come hear my speakers.  If that's too far, you should ask Jim Salk if there is an owner nearby you who is willing to demo speakers.  Most Salk owners are happy to show off their speakers  :green:.

Hifiquest

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Re: HT2-TL or Veracity ST
« Reply #11 on: 30 Jun 2017, 07:51 pm »
If you're not far from Maryland near Washington, DC, you are welcome to come hear my speakers.  If that's too far, you should ask Jim Salk if there is an owner nearby you who is willing to demo speakers.  Most Salk owners are happy to show off their speakers  :green:.

Thanks Richard, I appreciate the offer however I am located in South Florida. I did look on the owners list but didn't see anyone down here. But there soon will be  8)

Dave

Hifiquest

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Re: HT2-TL or Veracity ST
« Reply #12 on: 6 Jul 2017, 06:02 pm »
So after all the advise and recommendations and further conversations with Jim, I have ordered a pair or VST's in Walnut. I'm now really looking forward to hearing them and I am sure they will be worth the wait. Thank you all for your help. Can anyone tell me what the speaker binding posts are like on these? are they the same as the HT2-TL bi-wire/amp from Cardas?

R Swerdlow

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Re: HT2-TL or Veracity ST
« Reply #13 on: 9 Jul 2017, 10:15 pm »
So after all the advise and recommendations and further conversations with Jim, I have ordered a pair or VST's in Walnut.
Congrats :thumb:!  The walnut veneer Jim uses looks very nice.

Can anyone tell me what the speaker binding posts are like on these? are they the same as the HT2-TL bi-wire/amp from Cardas?
On my VSTs, I have what is apparently the standard Salk binding posts, as I didn't order special ones.  There is an aluminum plate on the back with the name Salk inscribed, and one pair of binding posts, one red and one black.  They have clear plastic insulation, and look like this:



The photo I linked shows the expensive German-made WBT posts, but there are also somewhat less expensive Yung posts made in Taiwan, that look very similar.  I don't know which are in my speakers.
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-bpfi-g-fully-insulated-binding-post-pair-gold--091-630

If you want two pairs of posts with wiring that allows bi-amping, or posts from a different maker, ask Jim to install them.

Hifiquest

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Re: HT2-TL or Veracity ST
« Reply #14 on: 10 Jul 2017, 07:34 pm »
Thanks for the info, those are certainly good quality posts. I thought I would cover all the options as I wasn't sure if the VST's were Bi-Wire as standard so I spoke to Jim and he is fitting Bi-Wire posts and plate. Now the options are all set the waiting game commences.  :D

Dave