[gregfisk]

Gearing up for the crown amp.  Ordered some speakon connectors and new 12au7's for one of the preamps.

Took the el34 tube amp and it's matching preamp out of the system and put back the tooby preamp (a conrad johnson) and a pair of inexpensive Marantz home theater monoblocks. 

The cj and the Marantz amps are a good, but not great, combo.  The amps are the weak link.  The cj preamp and the TPA3116 were a fantastic combo so there's reason to believe the crown will do well in that mix.

Looking forward to the audition.

Looking forward to your impressions with the different preamps. To me the amp has a clean slightly lean sound so I'm thinking the CJ might be a good match and sound really good. My Joule is somewhat neutral leaning to the warmer side, I call it romantic sounding. I purchased a premade 3118DL amp for my daughter and thought it was a bit warmer sounding than the Crown but not by much. It's been almost a year since I've heard it so I could be wrong about that, they're probably more alike than different except for power output of course.

[maplegrovemusic]

Interested in comparing your NCore to the cherry amp?  Tommy is looking to do a comparison between  the two ....

Sure , send me the cherry and i will do a demo !

[barryso]

The crown has been delivered.  Man, that was fast.

There's a few days of insanity to get out of the way to open up the weekend for play time.  The amp will be put in the system in a couple of days and turned on to settle in for the weekend listening session.

 

[barryso]

OK, the suspense was killing me so the crown went in the system for a quick listen.  I had about an hour.

The Marantz amps had been on all day so they were sounding a bit better than usual.  They are harmonically thin over all frequencies and lightweight in their bass presentation. They sound as if they were voiced to be used as surround speaker amps where clarity is most important and bass isn't going to be an issue.  When they warm up they are a bit more fleshed and sound a bit better but they aren't world class amps by any means.

The Marantz amps in their day were a reasonable amount of watts for the money, about $400 or $500 about 15 years ago.  Adjusted for inflation they'd be $800+ in today's dollars.

Even so, the Crown right out of the box was a bit warmer sounding and clearly has better bass.  The Crown is a better sounding amp.

The Crown responded about the same way most amps do to the Transcendent Sound balanced power supply. Directly into the wall the presentation was a bit thin in the mids and in the treble. Plugged into the power conditioner the mids gained some heft and some texture. It still isn't a harmonically rich presentation but it is better.

So as it stands right now the crown is better than the older inexpensive amps but not quite setting the world on fire.  The cables currently in the system worked well with the el-34 tube amp but didn't quite do it with the TPA3116.  Frankly it was the wrong wire to use with the Marantz amps and it isn't helping the Crown amp any so we'll try a cable swap next.

[a.wayne]

Sure , send me the cherry and i will do a demo !

Ping tommy -O,  I'm sure you two can work it for inquiring minds, especially since the cherry is the best class-D amp in dah world ..... 

[maplegrovemusic]

Ping tommy -O,  I'm sure you two can work it for inquiring minds, especially since the cherry is the best class-D amp in dah world ..... 

Best in da world ? Cannot tell if you are serious awayne . How do you really feel ?

[barryso]

Everyone who claimed the speaker connectors are poor were right on the money.  After doing a lot of listening I put the bare cables into speakon connectors.  Immediately noticed the mids and treble cleaned up considerably.  The tonality is better and a lot of grunge is gone.  It makes little sense as it added an additional connector in the signal path but it made quite a nice improvement.

Before the speakon connectors I was going to say the mids and treble were OK and fairly grain free but not clean enough for a long listening session.  The speakon connectors take it up at least a few steps.  The mids and highs are more to a level you'd expect in a more expensive amp and it sounds good.

No, the speakons didn't add the harmonic richness of a tube amp but they made a pretty astounding improvement.  I wouldn't have the right impression of the amp if this thread hadn't pointed out the connectors need help.

[jk@home]

If you do end up buying one of these, go for the Pomona binding post mod, which I felt bettered the Speakon connection method.

[barryso]

Thanks JK. The Pomona posts are a good idea as the subwoofer is connected through the binding posts.  If I decide on the amp it'll be a must do.

OK, after a good day of listening here are the notes from Barry's house of OCD.

Keep in mind my preference leans towards harmonically rich and not always accurate sound.  So what I describe as good might just be a little rich or thick sounding for a lot of folks.

Speakers
----------
The stand mounted nOrh 9's have a Scanspeak woofer and tweeter and the low end is handled by a REL sub.  Efficiency is in the mid to high 80's and they are a somewhat difficult load to drive.

The 9's are a bit laid back with the tube amps I've owned as the tube weren't capable of controlling the woofers with an iron fist.  The sweetness of the mids and highs were the trade off.  Good solid state amps control the woofers well and clean up the bass and lower bass and they get pretty resolving. The crown had no issue controlling the bass or driving the speakers cleanly and as loudly as I cared to listen.

The other speakers, the Ultras, are one of John Bush's open baffle speaker designs.  He graciously gives away the design for the Ultra (and the stand mounted Manzanita) on diyaudio.com. His crossover design is an easy load and very tube friendly but they are only low 80's efficient.  They do produce wonderful, plentiful, tuneful bass and I'd describe them as being laid back sounding.  A 40 to 80 watt tube amp can drive the Ultras very nicely and the crown had no trouble driving the Ultras.

The Ultras aren't resolving enough to be considered high end yet they are a very entertaining and pleasant speaker and they clearly reflected all the gear/amp changes.  I spent today with the Ultras and hope wrap things up with the 9's tomorrow.

conrad johnson PV-14L
---------------------------------
The CJ is the only preamp in the house that has a working remote and that made it a favorite going into the contest.

This was the preamp that I had thought would work well with the crown as it has a slightly dark and slightly rich sound and has 20+ db gain which seemed like the ticket to drive a pro amp. On paper this was the one.  This is the preamp I referred to in an earlier post as the tooby preamp although it isn't thick or sweet sounding like some tube gear.  Nice clarity and a bit laid back and maybe a bit rich sounding.

It's a good mating and very nice sounding as the CJ seems to add a bit of harmonic richness to the Crown.  This still isn't an overly rich or sweet presentation.

I can't decide if it's nicely balanced or too lean - but it isn't sweet.  It's clear and open.


Transcendent Sound Grounded Grid
---------------------------------------------------
Some folks complain the GG is too sterile sounding for a tube amp but it does add a touch of liquidity and harmonics to the sound ... it just isn't a sweet, syrupy sound.

I've always liked the grounded grid because it's sound is clear and dynamic and yet it adds a touch of harmonic richness.  It has a definite personality and it's one that always seems to push my buttons.

Yet there is a subtle veil over the sound with the crown and that has never been a description I've used with the Grounded Grid.  It doesn't have the clarity of the CJ or the sweetness of the Anthem in this situation. It's a compromise between the two other preamps and I'm not sure it works.

Anthem Pre2L
-------------
The Anthem Pre2L is tube preamp that sounds pretty.  This preamp isn't about accuracy, it's laid back and pretty sounding.  It gives up a lot of clarity for warmth and sweetness.  Bass notes are a bit rounded and a tad soft.

It has adjustable gain controls for 8, 16 and 24 db.  I'd thought the adjustable gain would be of value with driving a pro amp but the gain changes didn't do anything different with the Crown than with any other amp.  Even the 8 db gain seemed to be fine.

This is a lovely sounding combo with the Crown amp.  It adds a liquidity and body to the sound that is missing from the CJ or GG.  It loses out on clarity but adds richness and sweetness that is just lovely.  But it isn't accurate by any measure.

More tomorrow with the other speakers.  Less wordy, though.

[barryso]

OK, a quick and dirty update.

There was an edge in the midrange that's been in the system for ages.  It was heard with the TPA3116 and Crown amps and all the preamplifiers.  Turns out it was the wall wart power supply for the Squeezebox ... unplugged it and most of the grunge went away.

So the thin aggressive quality that was bothering me through much of the weekend listening session is gone.  Between the removal of the wall wart and the addition of the speakon connectors the amp is starting to shine.

This is an amazing and frustrating hobby at times.

[guest61169]

I know what you mean.  In my video system, movies and songs playing on my Oppo were occasionally stuttering, due to a problem in a hard drive enclosure.  It even affected other thumb drives I had plugged into it.   Once I replaced the enclosure, all was well.   I suspect that the power supply in the old enclosure was pushing noise into the Oppo and everything else plugged into it. 

[stonedeaf]

Listening to a couple of XLS-1500 for the last few days. I'm curious -does anyone know what ??bits  @ what frequency the A/D converters in these amps operate at ?

[barryso]

Noway ...

A case?  Wow, I've been doing computer work for decades and the only case issues are generally overheating. 

To All ...

OK, the Crown moves on today.  It's been quite a visit.

It's a lean,  good sounding amp on my speakers and gear.

The Crown likes the addition of sweet sounding tube gear (or at least I do).  The CJ is a slightly warm sounding tube preamp and the combo with the Crown was probably the most accurate and clearest sounding.  It was harmonically thin and a bit cold sounding to me, though, so a tube DAC was installed.  That sweetened things up nicely at the expense of some detail.

The Anthem tube preamp with the solid state DAC was also very lovely and even more tooby but at the expense of even more detail.

The Norh speakers sounded pretty nice with the subwoofer set a bit higher (frequency and output).  That fleshed out the midrange quite well.  It also muddied up the bass and lower bass just slightly but it was a good compromise.  When the tube dac was added it was possible to lower the sub a notch as the mids and highs were fleshed out a bit better.

So it was a great time, I found 4 or 5 things to improve on different parts of the system and it's sounding better that it has in some time.

Yet the Crown is more of a like than a love.  One may end up in the house for as the summer amp but I'm going to have to wait and see how much I miss it.

It isn't surprising.  At an audio show several years ago there was a system that really sounded wonderful to me as it was warm and fleshed out and pretty well detailed.  Last day of the show the owner of the (very nice) tube amps left and took the amps home with him.  I was listening to the same system with solid state amps and thinking to myself that it really didn't work anymore.  That's when the guy sitting next to me commented that the system now sounded excellent after getting rid of the (@#!) tubes.

Many, many thanks for being included in the tour.  It is very much appreciated.

[jk@home]

Great write up, Barry, Guess I missed it, but what tube DAC are you using?

[barryso]

Many thanks.

The solid state dac is a Bel Canto Dac-2 and the tube dac is a Paradisea.  Both have very different presentations and are kind of opposite of one another.

The odd thing is the solid state dac doesn't sound quite right with the el-34 tube amp and on paper they should be wonderful together and kind of balance each other out.  And on paper the tube dac should be too tooby with the tube amp.  But the tube dac and tube amp play really well together.

This is such an odd hobby sometimes.

[roscoeiii]

Odd hobby indeed.

How'd I end up with an amp this inexpensive as part of the best my system has ever sounded. The SP Techs and DEQX and iTube play a role there too. But damn, the XLS price is what allows me to put my resources to the other fine pieces of gear.

[Tomy2Tone]

Just wanted to say that the "tour" is officially over and thanks to all the participants who graciously took part and passed on the amp to the next party.

This tour far exceeded my expectations and had way more interest than I originally thought it would incur.

Thank guys for having a great time with this and keeping things cordial!

-Tom

[DaveC113]

Thanks for providing the tour amps, it was fun to hear how the Crown worked in a variety of systems. 

[roscoeiii]

Just wanted to say that the "tour" is officially over and thanks to all the participants who graciously took part and passed on the amp to the next party.

This tour far exceeded my expectations and had way more interest than I originally thought it would incur.

Thank guys for having a great time with this and keeping things cordial!

-Tom

Thank you so much for your fabulous generosity! These tours are a real joy.

[SteveFord]

Yes, thank you.  The tour was a lot of fun and I actually learned some things and it didn't make my head hurt.
Imagine that.