Speaker dynamics - what enables it?

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*Scotty*

Re: Speaker dynamics - what enables it?
« Reply #20 on: 13 Mar 2010, 01:34 am »
I am not sure where dynamics come from on a raw driver basis. Dynamic life from a driver does not appear to be related to how much it costs or what the cone material is made of. I know that with some drivers you can put music in and it doesn't come back out. This is not related to power compression either. Playing softer or louder doesn't result in a greater sense of life or dynamics or more information getting into the air. I do know this, Danny's latest drivers with the XBL squared motor structure are some of the most dynamic drivers available at any price. I don't know if the XBL technology is necessarily entirely responsible for this performance or not. Suffice to say something has gone very right with these drivers.
Scotty 

Raiderone

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Re: Speaker dynamics - what enables it?
« Reply #21 on: 13 Mar 2010, 03:51 am »
Danny's latest drivers with the XBL squared motor structure are some of the most dynamic drivers available at any price. I don't know if the XBL technology is necessarily entirely responsible for this performance or not. Suffice to say something has gone very right with these drivers.
Scotty

Scotty, would you say that the 130xbl is notably more dynamic sounding than the regular 130 or 130 (16 ohm)?  Also, have you compared the 130xbl or 165xbl to any other drivers?  And at all or any particular volume level(s).  Thanks.

dBe

  • Industry Participant
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Re: Speaker dynamics - what enables it?
« Reply #22 on: 13 Mar 2010, 04:16 am »
I strongly agree with Danny w/regards to minimizing noise and maximizing signal (i.e. signal to noise ratio). This is where an excellent room makes all the difference. And limiting vibrations from HVAC, using flexible ductwork, etc...the quieter the room, the more easily dynamic range be heard and appreciated. Floyd Toole goes into this in some detail in his latest book. For those with extra $$$, a dedicated room built from the ground up is a very worthwhile investment and MUCH cheaper than uber expensive amps, etc...the room will always be the elephant holding things down.

Anand.
I've just stumbled over this thread because I've been busy working on something that contributes to system dynamics by lowering the noise floor.

System dynamics is ALL about signal to noise relations and low distortion.  The low noise aspect seems straight forward as does the low distortion requirement.  Unfortunately laboratory testing does not give much of an inkling as to the "real" distortion components that influence our perception of dynamic musical reproduction.  It is not the 1K + 10K harmonic distortion test that determines the true distortion characteristics of a system at full song with a complex musical passage.  It is easy to design an amp that does the test tone thing, but much harder to design one that reveals every nook and cranny in the music.  Same with speakers.  The instantaneous translation of complex musical passages means that a considerable amount of air has to be moved very precisely to do so.  Danny's comment about the servo sub's ability to stop on a dime is paramount in recreating the macro dynamics necessary to reproduce the BIG sound required in dynamic contrasts.  Just as important is the sharp edge on high frequency decay of a triangle.  There are very few systems that are capable of this macro and micro dynamic portrayal.  The common thread is these systems have the ability to move large volumes of air effortlessly. You have to have huge, precisely controlled stroke volumes, efficient coupling or large surface areas to do this with low distortion electronics driving the whole equation.

The other end of this is the necessity of the eradication of noise from the system.  Every component in every device in the system has the potential to contribute unwanted noise, that by definition, is distortion in the playback medium.  The self generated noise of resistors through thermal effects, the noise in capacitors (ringing), caused by dielectric absorption, the noise in a room caused by reflections or HVAC.... everything is working against faithful, dynamic musical reproduction.

Discussing the factors that define dynamic, faithful (a better word that accurate) reproduction of music is a topic that could go on for thousands of posts and I don't think we would ever fully define the topic.

Just a bit of conciousness streaming on a Friday night.

Dave, out.

*Scotty*

Re: Speaker dynamics - what enables it?
« Reply #23 on: 13 Mar 2010, 04:54 am »
I haven't done any direct comparisons between the 130XBL and the standard 130 or the 130 at 16ohms.
Danny would have to answer your question.
Scotty

stereocilia

Re: Speaker dynamics - what enables it?
« Reply #24 on: 13 Mar 2010, 05:49 am »
Here's a totally contrived idea based on almost nothing.  Since dynamics presumably relies on the perception of a greater contrast between loud and quiet, and since our ear-brain systems equate distortion to loudness, then wouldn't a driver whose distortion rises faster with increased input be judged as more dynamic than a driver whose distortion rises more slowly with increased input?

I'm not talking about absolute amounts of distortion.   Instead, I'm talking about the rate of change in distortion with respect to input.  Basically, I'm saying that dynamic-sounding drivers may have much lower distortion at low intensities such that their distortion must increase very quickly.  In contrast, a driver with high distortion at any intensity will always sound less dynamic.

I freely admit that I may be talking out of my butt.

*Scotty*

Re: Speaker dynamics - what enables it?
« Reply #25 on: 13 Mar 2010, 06:16 am »
stereocilia,I see your point,most audiophiles tend to turn up their systems until they are uncomfortable with how loud it sounds.
This is fine until they remove a lot of distortion from their system and find that they have turned their volume knob a lot further than they used to before they achieve a similar sensation of loudness. I think fundamentally distortion is the enemy of dynamic range. If a driver rapidly increased its distortion with increasing amounts of power I think it would act to compress the apparent dynamic range of the music. When the amount of distortion in a system is lowered it is easier to hear more information at lower listening levels, the need to turn the volume up in order to hear the music adequately is correspondingly reduced. Also dynamic contrast can be exaggerated in a system that is lacking in microdynamics or resolution. It is like listening to a black and white photo with no grayscale,the dynamic contrast will be enhanced because of missing information. When the grayscale is present it may seem at first like some of the dynamics are no longer present,but in fact the blank spaces have been filled in with musical information.
Scotty

stereocilia

Re: Speaker dynamics - what enables it?
« Reply #26 on: 13 Mar 2010, 06:48 am »
For sure, distortion is the enemy.  I think you get that my idea was that a driver with lower distortion in every measurable way may have a much steeper curve of distortion vs. intensity, even as that curve is far below a non-dynamic sounding driver for all intensities.  I have no idea if it that could reflect reality, or if it would matter.  I need more science, I guess.

With your grayscale analogy, I think I see what you mean.  However, I"m not sure the same intensity/distortion exchage exists in the visual system; I don't really know.  The analogy also differs in that the two drivers will both have an infinite number of possible intensities, wheras the pixels of an image whose contrast has been artificially enhanced will make all the gray pixels either black or white.

It's a great question and it's interesting to think about.