Hypex nc400 Ncore vs mccormack dna 1 deluxe monoblocks?

jmdesignz2 · « **on:** 22 Nov 2014, 05:38 pm »

I have had mccormack dna 1 deluxe monoblocks in my system and wonder if anyone has compared with ncore 400 modules?

My speakers are 86db with what stereophile called a difficult load that drops to just under 3ohms in midbass and mid treble.

I have dedicated 20amp outlets to run the amps

fsimms · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 Nov 2014, 06:08 pm »

I have a McCormack DN 225 amp and upgraded to Hypex NC400 mono blocks with Aluminati cases. It was a close decision. The MCormack is a great amp and very musical. The NC400s were clearer and sounded a touch more neutral. They were so clear that they sounded magical in my system. It took me a couple of months to decide to upgrade to the NC400s. I was lucky that my friend, who loaned me his amps, had such patience.

Bob

WireNut · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 Nov 2014, 09:01 pm »

Quote from: jmdesignz2 on 22 Nov 2014, 05:38 pm

I have had mccormack dna 1 deluxe monoblocks in my system and wonder if anyone has compared with ncore 400 modules?

I haven't heard the Ncores but my gut feeling is to keep the mccormack dna 1 deluxe monoblocks which are really good amps and upgrade something else in the system
like your preamp. Those dna 1 deluxe monoblocks are keepers IMO unless you have money to blow experimenting with other high dollar amps.
I'd upgrade my preamp, your amps are plenty good enough.

WireNut · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 Nov 2014, 09:37 pm »

Don't sell off your MCcormack dna 1 deluxe monoblocks you will lose your ass and be sorry.
After 30+ years of selling/trading/buying I know you/ve got some good amps there. Keep them.

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #4 on:** 23 Nov 2014, 01:06 am »

I'd be inclined to include the Crown XLS 2500 in your comparison. I suspect that more power might make a more important difference than (slightly, if any) more refinement.

WireNut · « **Reply #5 on:** 23 Nov 2014, 06:26 am »

Holy shit. If you own 2 DNA-1 deluxe mono power amps, keep them and upgrade your preamp. OMG.

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 Nov 2014, 08:55 am »

But if you owned the McCormacks and could afford to buy a Crown 2500 for an extended comparison and found you preferred the Crown, you could sell the McCormacks for much more than the cost of the Crown and play with the surplus $, trying preamps, DACs, etc.
I know the McCormack is a first class amp, but things might have moved on (in some, not all, quarters) to the point where the only reason to keep an old amp would be for its sentimental value, not sonics.

I understand the Job is also a very fine amp but apparently at least one Job owner is selling in favor of the Crown.

As I said, sometimes, especially in a lower sensitivity, hard-to-drive loudspeaker sheer brute force can be an advantage that trumps other variables.

C17FXR · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 Nov 2014, 01:37 pm »

I'm not sure what the cost of the two are (Ncore or Crown) and I've never heard either of them but as third suggestion you could have the McCormack's upgraded.
Steve does some outstanding work on these models, I know I put my DNA-1's to the side for a pair of DNA 0.5 monoblocks.
I would give you a detailed description of the difference between the two but right now I'm in the process of setting up my new room, just moved into my new house.
I would be willing to do a demo if you are near the Dayton, OH area. Might even consider bringing them to your place for a listening session.

WireNut, sorry I never sent that PM I had mentioned about the McCormack phono, life has gotten crazy with this new home purchase and moving.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

jmdesignz2 · « **Reply #8 on:** 10 Dec 2014, 03:53 am »

I am in Jacksonville. Anyone have an ncore they want to bring over and test vs my dna1s?

roscoeiii · « **Reply #9 on:** 10 Dec 2014, 04:18 am »

Crown XLS amps like the 2500 are available from a number of retailers with a good return policy, such as Amazon. So a risk-free proposition to compare to your McCormack (which I have only heard in unfamiliar systems, but know to have an excellent reputation). With the impedance of your speakers, you wouldn't want to use the XLS as bridged monos though. Bridged they only go down to 4 ohms safely.

But yeah, for tough to drive 86dB speakers the extra watts could make a nice difference (and this could apply to ncores too; head to head on jackman's system we preferred the ncore to the XLS 1500). I just compared the Wyred4Sound SX500 monoblocks to the bridged mono XLS 1500, and I ended up preferring the XLS (1600 W per channel!) to the Wyred (550 W per channel). I suspect that the higher power of the XLS may have played a big role in this preference for the Crown. But it MUST be noted that my SP Technology Revelation speakers by all accounts need loads of power to sound their best. Much more than their specs would suggest.

FWIW, my 2 cents, etc.

jmdesignz2 · « **Reply #10 on:** 10 Dec 2014, 01:36 pm »

Interesting, what config ncores vs what config xls1500? What did you feel were the differences? Level matched? Jackman has what speakers? I have aerial 10t...

roscoeiii · « **Reply #11 on:** 10 Dec 2014, 01:58 pm »

Quote from: jmdesignz2 on 10 Dec 2014, 01:36 pm

Interesting, what config ncores vs what config xls1500? What did you feel were the differences? Level matched? Jackman has what speakers? I have aerial 10t...

ncore was dual mono in one chassis. 1500 was in stereo mode, not bridged mono.

Impressions from listening session with jackman begin here (includes description of jackman's system somewhere):

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=130191.msg1379985#msg1379985

BobM · « **Reply #12 on:** 10 Dec 2014, 02:19 pm »

I agree that upgrading the DNA1's by Steve would put you in the "keeper for life" category, but that is not an inexpensive proposition, and you would never get it back on resale.

The Ncore 400 is a class D ("digital") amp. Class D is improving all the time, but IMO it is not there yet. And as the category improves the good class D amps of today will lose value quickly. Just something to think about long term.

rollo · « **Reply #13 on:** 10 Dec 2014, 03:25 pm »

Quote from: roscoeiii on 10 Dec 2014, 04:18 am

Crown XLS amps like the 2500 are available from a number of retailers with a good return policy, such as Amazon. So a risk-free proposition to compare to your McCormack (which I have only heard in unfamiliar systems, but know to have an excellent reputation). With the impedance of your speakers, you wouldn't want to use the XLS as bridged monos though. Bridged they only go down to 4 ohms safely.

But yeah, for tough to drive 86dB speakers the extra watts could make a nice difference (and this could apply to ncores too; head to head on jackman's system we preferred the ncore to the XLS 1500). I just compared the Wyred4Sound SX500 monoblocks to the bridged mono XLS 1500, and I ended up preferring the XLS (1600 W per channel!) to the Wyred (550 W per channel). I suspect that the higher power of the XLS may have played a big role in this preference for the Crown. But it MUST be noted that my SP Technology Revelation speakers by all accounts need loads of power to sound their best. Much more than their specs would suggest.

FWIW, my 2 cents, etc.

That is why one size does not fit all. Besides power the impedance range of the speaker matters as well. Apogees and Sound labs go down to the 1 and two Ohm area. A tough load. very few amps can handle that right. Synergy is key as you have found.
We need to through a Hybrid design in the mix. If anyone in the NY area has a Crown or N-Core amp come on over. We will compare an Arion HS500 hybrid monblocks to all comers. Speakers are Nearfield Acoustic Pipedreams. Using a 6H30 tube on the analog board and Duelund CAST output caps. No OEM modules. Could be fun and a learning experience for all.

charles

roscoeiii · « **Reply #14 on:** 10 Dec 2014, 03:39 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 10 Dec 2014, 03:25 pm

That is why one size does not fit all. Besides power the impedance range of the speaker matters as well. Apogees and Sound labs go down to the 1 and two Ohm area. A tough load. very few amps can handle that right. Synergy is key as you have found.
We need to through a Hybrid design in the mix. If anyone in the NY area has a Crown or N-Core amp come on over. We will compare an Arion HS500 hybrid monblocks to all comers. Speakers are Nearfield Acoustic Pipedreams. Using a 6H30 tube on the analog board and Duelund CAST output caps. No OEM modules. Could be fun and a learning experience for all.

charles

Yup. One size does not fit all. I had a great hybrid Butler amp when I was running my SP Tech Minis. Better match with them than my Rogue Stereo 90 which I preferred with my VR-4s. Hybrids can be a great solution in the right set-up. Though in some cases you could get similar effects running a tube pre and SS amp. But this will differ depending on the particular gear in question. Just as some tube amps are more "tubey" than others, and some class D amps are warmer than others.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #15 on:** 10 Dec 2014, 11:10 pm »

Quote from: roscoeiii on 10 Dec 2014, 04:18 am

Crown XLS amps like the 2500 are available from a number of retailers with a good return policy, such as Amazon. So a risk-free proposition to compare to your McCormack (which I have only heard in unfamiliar systems, but know to have an excellent reputation). With the impedance of your speakers, you wouldn't want to use the XLS as bridged monos though. Bridged they only go down to 4 ohms safely.

The Crown XLS series will go down to 2 ohm safely, it is the Crown XTI series that will not.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #16 on:** 10 Dec 2014, 11:13 pm »

Quote from: Russell Dawkins on 23 Nov 2014, 08:55 am

I understand the Job is also a very fine amp but apparently at least one Job owner is selling in favor of the Crown.

Rex just sold his Job yesterday, now I need to sell mine. The XLS is better, quieter and more detailed.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #17 on:** 10 Dec 2014, 11:29 pm »

Quote from: OzarkTom on 10 Dec 2014, 11:10 pm

The Crown XLS series will go down to 2 ohm safely, it is the Crown XTI series that will not.

Unbridged the XLS can do 2 ohms. Bridged as monoblocks they can only do 4 ohms (nominal speaker rating)

OzarkTom · « **Reply #18 on:** 11 Dec 2014, 12:37 am »

Quote from: roscoeiii on 10 Dec 2014, 11:29 pm

Unbridged the XLS can do 2 ohms. Bridged as monoblocks they can only do 4 ohms (nominal speaker rating)

Roscoe is correct.

Amazon still has 16 15 2000's left at 15% off. You can get one for $373, another one only if a friend or relative buys one for you. That is about $750 for 2100 watts into 4 ohm load. Not too shabby.

http://www.amazon.com/Crown-NXLS2000-0-US-Power-Amplifier/dp/B003HZPKXC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1418257878&sr=8-1&keywords=crown+2000

jackman · « **Reply #19 on:** 11 Dec 2014, 12:39 am »

Quote from: OzarkTom on 10 Dec 2014, 11:13 pm

Rex just sold his Job yesterday, now I need to sell mine. The XLS is better, quieter and more detailed.

I'm really surprised by this, because so many people love the Job amp. As I stated in the previous thread, the XLS is a very impressive amp. It ran very cool and dead quiet in my system. In my system, I could not imagine needing any more power because I played it as loud as it would go and never came close to clipping it (90dB sensitivity Bamberg Series 5's) and it's incredibly compact. The fan was also not a problem because it rarely ran and when it did, it was never audible from my listening position.

The Crown XLS is also insanely inexpensive and solidly built. If it's anything like my K series Crown, you can drop it down a flight of stairs without doing any damage (okay, maybe some cosmetic damage)...

Also, it has built-in xovers, high and low pass filters, etc. For the money, it is a rare bargain. I appreciate Tom's generosity in letting me borrow it and hope to have a chance to hear it (and the Cryo version) at Roscoe's house.

That said, it sounded best with power conditioning on my system, and was noticeably more "forward" than my nCore amp. It also lacked some of the detail and soundstage of the nCore (detail was not a major problem but soundstage was noticeably more 2D in the Crown). I didn't realize the difference until I put the nCore back in the system. Also, the forwardness of the Crown was not as apparent at moderate volume levels. My speakers present a relatively easy load for both amps (4ohm) and I am still extremely impressed by the Crown. In my past experience, pro amps sounded great for bass (especially Class D) but they fell short in other areas. This Crown is cheap enough to take a shot on for most budget minded people. If you don't like it, you will not lose much (or anything) on the used market. AND it's super lightweight and easy to ship.

Oh, I have never compared the McCormack to the nCore and hope to hear from people who have compared these amps directly. I've heard both on separate systems and was impressed by both. I could easily live with either.