[Escott1377]

[quote author=JakeJ 

Cool beans that you had a pair of Snappers driving VR-4jr's.  A pair of VR-4 Gen III HSE's once grace my listening space but I moved them on during my audio journey.

[/quote]

Point was made and point was taken.  I backed out of the conversation, there is no need to puff your chest on the Internet towards me.

[mgsboedmisodpc2]

...... (I rolled the following output tubes: EL34, KT66, KT77, KT88, KT120, and 6550 - my favorite)......

My used prima luna 5 came with used 6550.  I hear less distortion with KT120. So JLM I do know there are huge differences between different makes of 6550 tubes.  What make 6550 tube did you prefer? Hopefully not an over priced NOS model.

[rpf]

Both JLM and Sunnydaze make good points about the power needed for a given set of speakers.

But as John (Sunnydaze) noted, JLM's are more theoretical, while John's are easier to implement in practice. And it's, of course, better to err on the side of having more power.

That being said, there are also other factors that come into play: not only room size but room configuration and the amount of room treatment.

My 87db speakers have an easy impedance curve of 8 ohms nominal down to 3.9 ohm minimum. In the smaller room of my previous residence they required the 100 wpc of KT88/KT120s in my Cronus Magnum to come alive. In my new larger and open plan room they sound best with the 55 wpc of the KT66s (in the same CM; and yes, the KT120s produce a larger soundstage and greater macro dynamics, but they also supersize images and are not as linear as the KT66s).

I believe the difference is primarily due to the much higher ceiling and additional room treatments in the new room. It is also to be noted that although I listen to all kinds of music, I don't listen very loudly: high 60s to mid 80s db normally.

So obviously, there are a lot of variables to this equation.

[sunnydaze]

Hey Rob - -  very surprised to hear that less power works better in your larger room.  Seems counter intuitive.   

Just goes to show,  logic doesnt always prevail in audio.   Actually,  it rarely does!     

[JLM]

My used prima luna 5 came with used 6550.  I hear less distortion with KT120. So JLM I do know there are huge differences between different makes of 6550 tubes.  What make 6550 tube did you prefer? Hopefully not an over priced NOS model.

Sorry, don't recall the brand (I bought all different brands with the tubes I bought - none were NOS, all were priced between $120-200 for a set of four).  But the EL34, KT66, KT77, KT88, and 6550 were all cyro'd while the KT120 (that came from Prima Luna) were not.  Frankly the amp with KT120 didn't sound much different than my solid state gear.

[jarcher]

In that price range new : definitely a Cronus Magnum II, especially if you like your Jolida but want more power and refinement.

If you want a more traditional warm tube sound, a used Cary SLI-80 or Conrad Johnson CAV50.

I don't subscribe to the notion that up you need high power unless you have a very inefficient speaker or want to play very loud. But I think I'm in the minority re that.

[JLM]

Allow me to throw out some numbers relating to the "commanding grip" issue...

On my 25 - 20,000 Hz, 91 dB/w/m, 8 ohm speakers in a 2,100 cubic foot (8ft x 13ft x 21ft) room I used: a 7 wpc class T amp, with amazing results (peak response would have been about 96 dB); and 40 wpc solid state, 20/40 wpc tube, & 100 wpc solid state that all provided noticeably more of a "commanding grip" to improve detail/imaging resolution (peak response would have been around 101 - 108 dB).

Most authorities agree that classical/jazz genres peak at 105 dB and that rock can routinely reach 110 dB, so the bigger amps I used would seem to be a better fit if attempting to accurately reproduce music in the home. 

These raw numbers would tend to indicate that average efficiency speakers (say 87 dB/w/m and below) would need a monster tube amp (100 wpc and beyond) to really shine, but experience (see my first post on this thread) says other factors should be considered.

[rpf]

Hey Rob - -  very surprised to hear that less power works better in your larger room.  Seems counter intuitive.   

Just goes to show,  logic doesnt always prevail in audio.   Actually,  it rarely does!     

Yeah, I know, right??? Really surprised me when I tried the KT66s and found they provided enough power for my speakers. Perhaps it's the openness of the room and relative lack of reflections allowing cleaner sound?

[4Play]

I have owned two Jolida integrated amps, and I currently own one. I know there is a love/hate relationship when it comes to Jolida products. I can tell you from firsthand experience that I have not had any issues with either amp. Apparently Jolida did have some issues but that's been numerous years ago. I bought both of mine from Audio Force in Iowa. Rick Sewell runs/owns Audio Force, and he is a super guy to deal with. When you place your order, your Jolida will be shipped from Jolida.

Hope this will help you in your decision.

[TubeNirvana]

not sure how to remove a post, so I am just writing this to over write the original post! 

[JakeJ]

Hello TubeNirvana,

You are welcome in my circle but please read the rules for industry members. (here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=about;area=industry-members)

You are welcome to post and comment on vacuum tube electronics but you aren't allowed to promote your products/company in the discussion forums.

Thanks,
Jake

[TubeNirvana]

Hello TubeNirvana,

You are welcome in my circle but please read the rules for industry members. (here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=about;area=industry-members)

You are welcome to post and comment on vacuum tube electronics but you aren't allowed to promote your products/company in the discussion forums.

Thanks,
Jake

Hi Jake,

thanks for the heads up. If you want to remove my post, please feel free. Sorry for the goof up. 

[JakeJ]

No you can do your own clean up. 

Just wanted to help you understand how the site is run so you don't get into trouble with admin.  Which in turn hurts your business not help it.  I don't want that.  I look forward to your future participation.  And best of luck to you.

[TubeNirvana]

No you can do your own clean up. 

Just wanted to help you understand how the site is run so you don't get into trouble with admin.  Which in turn hurts your business not help it.  I don't want that.  I look forward to your future participation.  And best of luck to you.

thank you!

[JakeJ]

Hi folks,

Just a quick note to thank Holger for his compliance.  It's not always easy being new.

Here is a link to his industry introduction: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138004.0

Check out his stuff!  Looks sweet!

[sunnydaze]

It really does!  Great pricing too.  If it sounds as good as it looks, I bet it's special.     

[TubeNirvana]

sound??....or so they have to produce sound???  I thought all that has to happen is for the tubes to light up!! 

[Q3Di]

I vote for Rogue, American build, high quality and affordable.
I had the Pharaoh, the tube and Class D hybrid. Love it! The built-in phono is great.

[sunnydaze]

sound??....or so they have to produce sound???  I thought all that has to happen is for the tubes to light up!! 

That......strong hallucinagins......and you are set!!