Adjustable Input Impedance - Need Your Help

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tortugaranger

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Adjustable Input Impedance - Need Your Help
« on: 27 Jan 2015, 09:24 pm »
Below is a draft write up on adjustable input impedance. I've had my head so far up this subject for the past few weeks that I need the benefit of some independent review. If you are so inclined I'd welcome any comments or suggestions on this draft language or just generally on the topic. 

Much appreciated,
Morten
_______________________________________ _________________________
** DRAFT **

What Is Adjustable Input Impedance?

Adjustable Input Impedance is a new feature introduced with version 2.1.0 of our passive preamp firmware that allows the user to change the default 20k input impedance of Tortuga Audio preamps.

Why Would I Want To Change Input Impedance?

Some combinations of source (DAC, CD transport, phono stage etc. ) and amp may benefit from changing the input impedance of the passive preamp. Increasing the preamp's impedance will result in a higher overall effective impedance as seen by the source. A higher impedance will make it easier for the source to transfer audio energy (i.e. the music) to the amp because it requires less current from the source.  If your source happens to have less than a robust output stage, connecting it to lower impedance devices may result in loss of dynamics and poor bass. Some source components may require say 50k or higher impedance to perform properly. Raising the preamp's input impedance can mitigate this.

Why not just set the default preamp input impedance to say 100K? You may also ask why don't all amplifiers have 100k versus say 20k input impedance? Raising input impedance higher than necessary can raise distortion levels. This is particularly true of LDR passive preamps where high voltage drops across the LDRs raises their distortion level;  although even at 100k input impedance our LDR preamps still sound fantastic.

Thus, impedance should be sufficiently high to ensure optimal performance. Raising the impedance even higher probably won't improve performance and may in fact raise distortion. More is not always better.

How Does Adjustable Input Impedance Work?

The Tortuga Audio firmware allows the user to set up five (5) different input impedance levels and switch between these while playing music without interruption. This flexibility will allow the user to fine tune and select the passive preamp impedance level which is optimal for their source(s) and amplifier.

Impedance setting #1 is 20k by default. LDR preamps shipped with the 2.1.0 firmware are already set up this way. User may change this impedance level to any value between 1k and 99k. Similarly, impedance settings #2 through #5 can each bet set up each with its own impedance level.

The procedure for changing and existing or setting up a new impedance set is as follows:

Step   Description
1   Turn on the preamp
2   Press the Left button on the remote. The right display will show the currently selected impedance setting (1-5).
3   Use the Raise/Lower buttons to select the setting set you want to change or set up.
4   Press the Left button again on the remote. The right display will now show the impedance level (1k - 99k) associated with the currently selected setting.
5   Use the Raise/Lower buttons to adjust the impedance level to desired value (1k-99k)
6   Press the Enter button to save the current setting number and associated level
7   Turn off the preamp
8   Enable Auto-Cal by pressing the Enter button

If steps 7 and 8 (running Auto-Cal) are not followed immediately after steps 1-6, the changes you made in the impedance setting number and associated level value will be lost and the preamp will revert to the prior settings.

After completing steps 7 and 8 (Auto-Cal cycle complete),  turn on the preamp again and proceed to follow steps 1-3 to select the desired impedance setting number. If more than one impedance settings have been defined and processed through Auto-Cal, you'll be able to switch between each of the settings while playing music. If you switch to an impedance setting that is not defined, most likely the audio output will shut off. Switching back to a defined setting number will switch the music back on.

kernelbob

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Re: Adjustable Input Impedance - Need Your Help
« Reply #1 on: 27 Jan 2015, 11:51 pm »
Hi Morten,

As I understand it, the impact of lowering the input impedance is more than just changing that value.  Doesn't it also change the output impedance of the Tortuga?  For me that is more important than changing the input impedance since my DAC has a robust output stage.

Of greater concern to me is the output impedance of the Tortuga.  In my case I want to be able to drive a bi-amplified system.  With the current stock LDRxB, when I go from using a single amp to bi-amping, I can hear a (small) degree of reduction of the dynamics, the impact of the sound.  At the moment, I use a top amp with a 100 kohm impedance and a bass amp with a 25 kohm impedance.  I know that the "10:1" ratio is probably met, but I don't believe that is an acceptable ratio.  Some manufacturers recommend a 20:1, 50:1, or higher.  I don't want to have to live with that "slight degree" of punch and dynamics.

So, I'll be using the variable input impedance to minimize the output impedance of the Tortuga and will need to understand how that variable input impedance curve affects the output impedance.  Some nifty graphs would be most helpful.  The LDRxB is an amazing instrument, but I need more information that just the input impedance setting.

Regards,
Robert

tortugaranger

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Re: Adjustable Input Impedance - Need Your Help
« Reply #2 on: 28 Jan 2015, 03:50 pm »
Hi Morten,

As I understand it, the impact of lowering the input impedance is more than just changing that value.  Doesn't it also change the output impedance of the Tortuga?  For me that is more important than changing the input impedance since my DAC has a robust output stage.

Of greater concern to me is the output impedance of the Tortuga.  In my case I want to be able to drive a bi-amplified system.  With the current stock LDRxB, when I go from using a single amp to bi-amping, I can hear a (small) degree of reduction of the dynamics, the impact of the sound.  At the moment, I use a top amp with a 100 kohm impedance and a bass amp with a 25 kohm impedance.  I know that the "10:1" ratio is probably met, but I don't believe that is an acceptable ratio.  Some manufacturers recommend a 20:1, 50:1, or higher.  I don't want to have to live with that "slight degree" of punch and dynamics.

So, I'll be using the variable input impedance to minimize the output impedance of the Tortuga and will need to understand how that variable input impedance curve affects the output impedance.  Some nifty graphs would be most helpful.  The LDRxB is an amazing instrument, but I need more information that just the input impedance setting.

Regards,
Robert

Pictures help. Below is circuit diagram depicting your basic source, passive preamp (voltage divider), and amp.

If we look at the preamp (or any potentiometer for that matter) as an isolated component we get:

Input impedance:  Zin-pre = Ra + Rb   (i.e. series resistance)
Output impedance: Zout-pre = (Ra x Rb)/(Ra + Rb)  (i.e. parallel resistance)

Thus for this type of L-Pad voltage divider Zin-pre is constant while Zout-pre varies as volume is raised/lowered. While this variable Zout behavior is technically true, it's not what really matters.

What is most relevant to sound quality is the parallel impedance of the preamp combined with the amp relative to the output impedance of the source. We really aren't trying to match impedance here in the classic sense. We are going for a sufficiently high bridging ratio between the preamp/amp input impedance and the source output impedance. 50:1 or higher usually yields good results but is not a hard and fast rule.  The effecting impedance of the preamp/amp is what the source "sees" and into which it has to deliver its  sonic energy. Thus the effective Zin seen by the source become  Zin = (Zin-pre x Zin-amp)/(Zin-pre + Zin-amp).

If you add yet another amp to the output of the preamp you are adding yet another resistance in parallel which will further reduce the effecting Zin seen by the source. A reduced Zin requires the source to deliver its sonic energy with more current. If that's more current than is optimal for that particular source, sonic quality my suffer.

This can be mitigated by raising the Zin-pre of the preamp such that the effective parallel Zin seen by the source is raised enough to offset the additional amp on the output.

If raising the Zin-pre isn't sufficient, then the next best option becomes adding a buffer between the pre-amp output and the second amp or perhaps both amps. The very high Zin-buffer should allow the source work less and sound better but now you've introduced the complexity of a buffer and essentially what you end up with is an active preamp with zero gain instead of a true passive.

That buffer will need to be dead quiet and totally neutral to preserve the benefits of the LDR preamp. We are working on such a buffer.

A spreadsheet is available for download from our website that can be used to play around with this. Look for "Impedance Spreadsheet" in the right sidebar here:  http://www.tortugaaudio.com/downloads/




kernelbob

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Re: Adjustable Input Impedance - Need Your Help
« Reply #3 on: 28 Jan 2015, 11:54 pm »
Well, given that the great sound I'm getting from the LDRxB with the the default input impedance setting, the capability to fine tune the imput resistance can only allow the sound to get better.  I'm looking forward to playing with that setting.  Thanks much Morten for your dedication to pushing the limits of the envelope.

justubes

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Re: Adjustable Input Impedance - Need Your Help
« Reply #4 on: 29 Jan 2015, 04:13 am »
Sound fabulous!

Will this be shipped with the 2.1 boards?

Thanks

tortugaranger

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Re: Adjustable Input Impedance - Need Your Help
« Reply #5 on: 29 Jan 2015, 01:30 pm »
Sound fabulous!

Will this be shipped with the 2.1 boards?

Thanks

Yes. Took a bit longer than planned to work the kinks out but it's included in the firmware shipped with the LDR3x.V2.1 boards.  :thumb:

Shakeydeal

Re: Adjustable Input Impedance - Need Your Help
« Reply #6 on: 29 Jan 2015, 05:12 pm »
When this be ready to download, and what is the procedure for doing so?

Shakey

tortugaranger

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Re: Adjustable Input Impedance - Need Your Help
« Reply #7 on: 29 Jan 2015, 06:21 pm »
When this be ready to download, and what is the procedure for doing so?

Shakey

The latest 2.1.x firmware will be available for download from the website in another day or so. I'll post an update here when it's available. It will be available via the following web page which has an explanation of how it's done.   http://www.tortugaaudio.com/downloads/