Spatial M3 - What AMP and Source Are You Using?

Blueone302 · « **on:** 7 Jul 2016, 09:44 pm »

Good Evening. Just ordered a pair of the Spatial M3 Turbo S's last Saturday. I'll be running them with a Decware Torii Mk IV rated at 25 watts mated to a Don Sachs Mod 2 Pre with an Oppo BDP 105D as my source. Wondering what impressions others have accumulated as regards the M3's and your current amp(s). How much power? And, do you feel the wattage you have on hand is sufficient with the M3's?

logdar · « **Reply #1 on:** 8 Jul 2016, 03:31 am »

Hi Blueone,

I'm in a similar situation. I WANT to purchase the M3s but I'm holding off until I can figure out how to drive them: DAC/Preamp + Amp, Preamp/DAC + Amp, Integrated Amp, DAC + Preamp + Amp,... it is all very confusing (there are dozens of DACs alone). Especially complex for me since I'm starting almost from scratch. I currently don't have anything that would drive a 3-4 ohm speaker, so I'd have to get everything new or used. The only thing I would hold onto is my source, a Bluesound Vault2, recently purchased. So, a similar question to the Spatial Audio community, given a budget of say $2000-ish, what new or used equipment do you recommend? Do I even need to spend that much?

I was initially considering Bluesound --> NAD M51 --> Red Dragon S500 --> M3. But the NAD and S500 combined are not cheap. I still may go that way, but I'd like a less costly solution (wouldn't we all).

So back to your question, I've done a little research (including talking to the owner of Red Dragon - nice guy by the way). Some people run a <10w tube amp, but that is going to compromise the base. These speakers are efficient above 200 hz but not as efficient at lower frequencies. So to get good base you need more power than that. I'm not sure 25 watts is going to do it, but if you don't play your music loud, and the room is small, it probably is ok. But if I were you I would be asking the experts in their systems - send an email to the owner of Spatial (Clayton) or Red Dragon (Ryan Tew). They will steer you in the right direction. And don't forget to report back here as to the outcome of your conversations.

By the way, I asked Bryan what he though of using the BDP-105 as a pre-amp to the S500 and he thought that was a good setup. Not exactly your situation though. The S500, by the way, is 500 watts into 4 ohms!!!! I'm not sure all of 500 watts is necessary, but a good clean amp is what I'm after, and if its 500 watts then I guess that's what it is.

schw06 · « **Reply #2 on:** 8 Jul 2016, 12:29 pm »

Guys,
I've tried 4 different amps with the M3's of all different topology and price points. I think the speakers are both room and amp friendly and encourage you to just pick what looks good to you and enjoy the journey. I personally prefer ss amps on the M3 compared to tube amps I've tried but you can get great sound from either. If you want a "set and forget" recommendation, I agree with George(Zybar) that the Vinnie Rossi LIO and M3's have incredible synergy and even if funds are limited you can put the LIO together over time.
David

jtwrace · « **Reply #3 on:** 8 Jul 2016, 12:46 pm »

I can't add much to what's already been said but I will add that whether I used very high power Hypex NCore amps or the Vinnie Rossi LIO MOSFET. The one thing I will say is that the M3's are very resolving so using clean power is more important than the rated power. However, if you put those two qualities together the M3's really do deliver IMO.

jseymour · « **Reply #4 on:** 8 Jul 2016, 02:18 pm »

I am powering my M3 Turbo S with a Class D Audio SDS-470 with great satisfaction. This might fit into your budget at $695.00. My system is:
PC similar to CAPS V2 (no special USB card) -> Yellowtec PUC2 Lite (USB In/AES Out) with USB Disruptor (5V power) -> Schitt Yggy -> Jaton RC2000 -> SDS-470.

md92468 · « **Reply #5 on:** 8 Jul 2016, 07:14 pm »

I own the M4s, and they're surprisingly flexible...I've run them with everything from a $300 chip amp to a $4K hybrid, with mid-power tube kits and Class D in between. The hybrid (Blue Circle DAR) clearly sounded best, but had I not heard it I would have been completely satisfied with other pairings. Right now I'm running them with a W4S mINT, which I bought to simplify my set up after an unexpected health issue, and it sounds fantastic. I know others here have reported great success with SETs as well. In ideal world I'd go up the ladder and spring for a LIO – I love Vinnie's designs and philosophy – but that's not in the cards for now. Maybe one day.

It's really a matter of flavor, I think...you can't really go wrong with whatever you choose, which is one of the things that's so great about these speakers.

Blueone302 · « **Reply #6 on:** 8 Jul 2016, 08:56 pm »

Thanks for all the responses. After hearing your thoughts and that of several others, and since I have an AMP I'm happy with, It seems like the best course of action is to hook em up when they come and give it a fair shake. The Pre I'm using will allow me to pretty much run the AMP at full bore. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again for the input.

TomS · « **Reply #7 on:** 8 Jul 2016, 09:51 pm »

Quote from: Blueone302 on 8 Jul 2016, 08:56 pm

Thanks for all the responses. After hearing your thoughts and that of several others, and since I have an AMP I'm happy with, It seems like the best course of action is to hook em up when they come and give it a fair shake. The Pre I'm using will allow me to pretty much run the AMP at full bore. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again for the input.

Make sure you do a loooooong break in before you make any judgements about the combo.

Blueone302 · « **Reply #8 on:** 8 Jul 2016, 10:49 pm »

Tom, I get the break in period and based on what I've heard out of my Torii Mk IV, I'm a believer. But, that's the very thing I dread. The new pre has a pair of Duelund CAST Copper Caps. They'll require a good amount of burn in as well. Afraid I don't have a ton of patience. Guess I'll throw it all in together and let it stew.

jtwrace · « **Reply #9 on:** 8 Jul 2016, 11:30 pm »

Quote from: Blueone302 on 8 Jul 2016, 10:49 pm

Tom, I get the break in period and based on what I've heard out of my Torii Mk IV, I'm a believer. But, that's the very thing I dread. The new pre has a pair of Duelund CAST Copper Caps. They'll require a good amount of burn in as well. Afraid I don't have a ton of patience. Guess I'll throw it all in together and let it stew.

The M3's really need to be pounded hard. It's not really the caps IMO it's the drivers. Crank them up until they're too loud and crank them up some more. if you can let them run like that for 50 -100 hrs and then listen. Otherwise, keep in mind that the bass and mids will be muddy and the highs not as pristine. If you do that you can still hear what they are.

Blueone302 · « **Reply #10 on:** 8 Jul 2016, 11:55 pm »

If I do all that "pounding" are you close enough to come go my bail? We have a thing called a noise ordinances here. Seriously, are you suggesting I play a lot of different kinds of music, or play a lot of different stuff and genuinely play it loud? Either way, all of the above sounds good to me.

jtwrace · « **Reply #11 on:** 9 Jul 2016, 12:07 am »

Quote from: Blueone302 on 8 Jul 2016, 11:55 pm

If I do all that "pounding" are you close enough to come go my bail? We have a thing called a noise ordinances here. Seriously, are you suggesting I play a lot of different kinds of music, or play a lot of different stuff and genuinely play it loud? Either way, all of the above sounds good to me.

Huh? If you're in a SFR you should be able to easily play at 95 - 100dB without an issue from your neighbors. Just play well balanced music and that's it.

Flyin_V · « **Reply #12 on:** 9 Jul 2016, 06:37 am »

I have a pair of the M4s and used a 2a3 SET to run them at first but felt there was more performance to be had. I tried a David Berning ZOTL10 and the 4s came alive. Low level detail, spacious, dynamic and a very open and extended top end. Listening at 70db I don't feel I'm missing any information. The amp is very user friendly, drawing 70-80 watts, runs cool, can be re tubed for $100 and Berning says the they should last 10,000 hours. There is a 30 day in home trial too. Ten watts can easily play the 4s at 100-105 db.

kgturner · « **Reply #13 on:** 9 Jul 2016, 02:16 pm »

M4 Turbo SE owner. I'm using a Line Magnetic 518IA (22 watts per). Sources are my own music server connected to a Line Magnetic 502CA DAC for digital and a VPI Aries 3/Manley Chinook for vinyl. You can see my setup under the Systems link to the left.

Kevin T

Tomy2Tone · « **Reply #14 on:** 9 Jul 2016, 05:38 pm »

Quote from: Flyin_V on 9 Jul 2016, 06:37 am

I have a pair of the M4s and used a 2a3 SET to run them at first but felt there was more performance to be had. I tried a David Berning ZOTL10 and the 4s came alive. Low level detail, spacious, dynamic and a very open and extended top end. Listening at 70db I don't feel I'm missing any information. The amp is very user friendly, drawing 70-80 watts, runs cool, can be re tubed for $100 and Berning says the they should last 10,000 hours. There is a 30 day in home trial too. Ten watts can easily play the 4s at 100-105 db.

Is your ZOTL10 the one that is currently being offered by Linear Tube Audio by Mark and David?

Flyin_V · « **Reply #15 on:** 9 Jul 2016, 08:58 pm »

Yes it is Tomy2Tone.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #16 on:** 10 Jul 2016, 12:04 am »

Here is a recent review on the ZOTL 2.0 in Stereophile. I would love to try a 10 but afraid I would need a ZOTL40 for my Zellatons.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/linear-tube-audio-microzotl20-line-stageheadphone-amplifier#5o8p7ptSRc4icIgB.97

OzarkTom · « **Reply #17 on:** 10 Jul 2016, 05:33 pm »

Quote from: Tomy2Tone on 9 Jul 2016, 05:38 pm

Is your ZOTL10 the one that is currently being offered by Linear Tube Audio by Mark and David?

http://www.stereophile.com/content/caf2016-art-dudley%E2%80%99s-friday-morning#AZwciVsD9sgPzViH.97

erniek · « **Reply #18 on:** 11 Jul 2016, 06:05 pm »

I have M4's and a REL sub. I run them with an Odyssey Khartago/Candela combo. These can really play at high levels and the M4's seem to take everything I throw at them. What is surprising to me is how good my system sounds at lower listening levels. As one poster mentioned they have excellent low level detail and clean power is most important as well.

glynnw · « **Reply #19 on:** 13 Jul 2016, 06:30 pm »

Got my M3 Turbo S pair yesterday, so too soon for in-depth valid sound comments. I am using a pair of GR Research dual 12" Servo OB subs and running M3's full range. Initial tests have shown plenty of output with 4 watt, 15 watt and 90 watt tube amps - plan on using the 15 watt after all my screwing around with a new toy phase is over. I have a test piece (from Mamas and Papas) where Mama Cass is talking softly before the sound starts. Each new piece of gear over last few years has revealed better clarity thru my Lowther speakers, but the M3's let me hear ALL of what she says - very impressed. Can't wait until I have a couple hundred hours on them.