Can a "cheapie" SACD Player best an SCD-XA-5400ES with a few "smart" mods?

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slbender

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While I wish I had a Sony SCD-XA5400ES, a Modwright Sony 9100, or the megabucks Modwright XA5400ES, all I've been able to afford are some used, middle to low-end of the line Sony SACD players, considering what the really good Dentists and Doctors cost as one approaches and goes into "old age".  So it seems unlikely I'll ever get a really high-end player.  What I've taken is steps to modding the low-end Sony, those that were costing well under $100. on ebay.  In the past, I've built SET Amps, and Upgrade kits for older Reel to Reels, and Rebuilds for older Vintage transistor Amps, which made these older sets meet or surpass the sound of new flashy and mega-buck amplifiers costing ten or twenty times as much as the old vintage equipment.

So I gotta say, my first attempt at a reworked SACD player, on just the 2 channel stereo outputs, went so well, even I was amazed at the improvement that a $45.00 per stereo channel (in parts cost) made.  Unfortunately, my second attempt to do additional further mods destroyed the cheap Sony unit, since that surface mount stuff was not meant to be fiddled with more than once.  Its just way too fragile!  So if anyone has a defunct Sony NS-90v that won't read CD's or SACD's anymore, I could sure use the output board to do some more improvement and experiments!

I was also given two Sony NS-500v's that I turned into one working unit, I might have to continue my experiments using that, even though it's a somewhat higher cost unit (I think it was around $300 when new).  Just last week, I picked up an NS-775v for just 10 bucks, it is also a low-end universal player, essentially it's the NS-90v but without HDMI capability.  Its output board is almost the same, simpler, but very close, so I may try upgrading that even cheaper and older Sony SACD Player unit.  The main problem in all of these is that half the circuitry uses SMT instead of thru-hole, and the SMT soldering is a pita!  Still, I have a feeling that for about $150. - $175. in parts and labor, I can mod a cheapie Sony to sounding identical to, or even to the point of surpassing a Sony SCD-XA5400ES, a Modwright Sony 9100, or maybe even a Modwright XA5400ES.

My concept would be great as this would allow someone to have a total SACD Player investment (player plus mods) of under $250. to get the overall performance of an SCD-XA5400ES.  Remember, the NS-90v / NS-775v / NS-500v all use same Sony Chips to convert the SACD signals, but output IC's that cost only 15 cents in quantity, and the associated input and output caps that only cost Sony 4 cents each.  Changing those original parts to $12.00 IC's, and $12.00 input and output caps, and some $6.00 bypass caps, is clearly going to result in being able to surpass the sonics of Sony's XA5400ES; which itself (BTW) happens to use a 60 cent output IC and some of the same 4 cent caps (but they are bypassed by some additional 5 cent caps).

Yes, I know there are major differences between the cheaper Sony's, and the XA5400ES in terms of: jitter, clocking and reclocking, as well as the stability of the transport, and the various isolated and regulated power supplies.  But when push comes to shove - that stuff is likely "All Chrome" with little difference in the resulting sound - once the digital stream gets into the DSP-like SACD decoding chips.  What that means is, that for all the extra engineering of: expensive better clocks, and reclocking, and extra heavy metal supports in the transport, and the separate regulated power supplies, and additional capacitance, and so on, those things have no effect on the resulting sound, while the final input and output stage caps, and IC gain stages do.  It's a nasty little secret that basically, Sony deliberately dumbs down the output stages on ALL of the cheaper sets (both to save money) and so they won't sound identical to the SCD-XA5400ES, which is also why the cheaper Sony's sound so totally pathetic on Redbook CD's!  But in truth, they can sound the same, or even superior to the SCD-XA5400ES.

So if someone can send me a good working board for the Sony NS-90v it will help me work on this concept over the summer, and it will be much appreciated.


-Steven L. Bender

OzarkTom

How about trying to mod an Oppo 980 or 981? They go for $100 or less on Ebay and they sound very good.

Russtafarian

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This thread might be better received in the Lab circle rather than Hi-Rez.  I'll let Ted make the call on that.

I walked down this road for awhile modding inexpensive pioneer and oppo universal players.  While I was able to get them sounding better than stock, they were never able to stand up to the higher tier players.  I found that the construction and layout of the budget players presented too many roadblocks to get them to that level.

I hauled my modded players over to Bob Levi's place on more than one occasion to compare them with the Modwright Sony and EAR Acute players he has.  My players didn't sound bad in comparison, but they did not open up the music like the Modwright and EAR players did.

Since then I've moved to listening to my ripped SACDs through a DSD DAC.  This sounds better than any SACD player, modded or stock, that I can afford.

That said, have fun with the project and let us know how it turns out.  You've already discovered that you can get great sound by modding inexpensive players.  Keep it going and see how far you can take it.  If you want to exchange modification ideas, drop me a PM.  Good luck.

Russ


slbender

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Well I do have an Oppo 981 two of them, and both of them had power supply failures, and only one was "fixable", it seems that those early Oppo units are prone to power supply failures and transport failures. With such a dark cloud hanging over them, and with other potential types of problems - that are just too expensive and labor intensive for me to deal with, I don't think so.  Since one can't really know if an older Oppo is just days or weeks away from catastrophic failure, I just don't consider it a unit reliable enough to consider modifying.

Steven



How about trying to mod an Oppo 980 or 981? They go for $100 or less on Ebay and they sound very good.

slbender

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Thanks Russ

Steven


This thread might be better received in the Lab circle rather than Hi-Rez.  I'll let Ted make the call on that.

I walked down this road for awhile modding inexpensive pioneer and oppo universal players.  While I was able to get them sounding better than stock, they were never able to stand up to the higher tier players.

Russ

rollo

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I say no. If this exercise is for fun or just something to play with, go ahead be happy and try and try. Some minor improvements can be had however IMO a lateral move with time and money if not just a hobby thing.
      Compare say an Esoteric K-03 to the modded affairs and hear the differences. Now the K-03 is about $9000. If one wants to lower the ref. player to a TEAC CD3000 $1999 street price just compare them to the modded CD player of the day. You will then know first hand how close you are.
     


charles
     
   

slbender

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Hi Charles,

Well that's one "no", so it remains to be seen.  I forget what CD/SACD player you're using, but I'll be happy to bring my "cheapie smart mod" SACD Player over in a couple of months (maybe September) when I think its ready, and we can take a listen through those Class D amps of yours et al.  I'm already working on a super-transparent comparator unit with wireless remote control that allows one to remove the preamp, and compare directly two CD/SACD Players running directly into the power amps, OK?


-Steven


I say no. If this exercise is for fun or just something to play with, go ahead be happy and try and try. Some minor improvements can be had however IMO a lateral move with time and money if not just a hobby thing.
      Compare say an Esoteric K-03 to the modded affairs and hear the differences. Now the K-03 is about $9000. If one wants to lower the ref. player to a TEAC CD3000 $1999 street price just compare them to the modded CD player of the day. You will then know first hand how close you are.
     


charles
     
   

geowak

I think that the current generation of external DACs are so good, they march or surpass two channel SACD sound quality. I have an older Sony ES with a great transport. I have bypassed the internal DAC, and run it into a good external DAC. The sound is better than my two channel SACD Marantz....

Phil A

I think that the current generation of external DACs are so good, they march or surpass two channel SACD sound quality. I have an older Sony ES with a great transport. I have bypassed the internal DAC, and run it into a good external DAC. The sound is better than my two channel SACD Marantz....

I concur.  I have a DSD DAC now but even before it I had a non-DSD high quality DAC.  I have a modded player (Oppo BDP-83).  With the non-DSD DAC, I preferred overall the HDMI audio de-embedder taking 24/88..2 out of the Oppo (and in many cases it would even sound better upsampling in the DAC to 176.4).  Right now I'm digitizing plain of CDs and I have most of the hi-rez done, including DSD.  Getting a drive with moving parts is something that 7-10 years down the road could easily be a door stop as the drive may not be available, not to mention it sounds better w/o the spinning disc.