Bryston CIW Architectural Loudspeaker

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Samurai7595


James Tanner

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Re: Bryston CIW Architectural Loudspeaker
« Reply #1 on: 11 Sep 2014, 11:28 am »
Came across this on The Absolute Sound:

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/bryston-introduces-ciw-architectural-loudspeaker/

Yes sad but true I am afraid.

It appears that unless you have a Ceiling speaker no custom installer will consider using your speakers in the rest of the setup = Fronts, Centers, Surrounds etc.  So with all the limitations and performance compromises Ceiling or even Inwall speakers present I have been told we have to offer some.

I really have mixed feelings about it because the Bryston speaker project for me was about Performance First and I feel a little compromised with this. :duh:

james

« Last Edit: 11 Sep 2014, 12:31 pm by James Tanner »

Phil A

Re: Bryston CIW Architectural Loudspeaker
« Reply #2 on: 11 Sep 2014, 03:33 pm »
Yes sad but true I am afraid.

It appears that unless you have a Ceiling speaker no custom installer will consider using your speakers in the rest of the setup = Fronts, Centers, Surrounds etc.  So with all the limitations and performance compromises Ceiling or even Inwall speakers present I have been told we have to offer some.

I really have mixed feelings about it because the Bryston speaker project for me was about Performance First and I feel a little compromised with this. :duh:

james

James, I understand the dilemma and btw that's an extremely reasonable price (a steal literally).  I'll be facing that issue within a year or so when I consider in ceiling speakers for Dolby Atmos (I have in ceilling surrounds in the spare rooms and will probably just add a pair of speakers I have in one of spare rooms and use the in-ceillings for Atmos and not touch the main system for a bit).  I have an attic above the living room (and in FL you don't want to go up there now) and have all Thiels in the main system (3.7s as mains, MCS1 center, Power Points heights and two pair of SCS2s for the surrounds and back channels).  I could get a deal on Thiel Higher Planes on Audiogon but the the Thiels have mounting brackets one needs to buy (if they are even still available) depending on the joist distance.  I could look at the videos and pictures I took before they closed the walls up and use a stud finder but it might have uneven supports in spots so the best way would be go up there.  I had PVC run in the ceiling for the HDMI cable and have all in-ceiling in the master bedroom (the installer is a Sonance dealer and the surrounds I was looking at recently were $750 each!) with a Da-Lite screen that folds into the ceiling (there's any attic above the bedroom too).

Do the Bryston ones clip right on the sheetrock?  The HDMI cable had trouble getting through all the turns in the 2 inch PVC and they went up and cut it at a point so all I would have to do is get to the point where it is cut and snake speaker cables into it.  I probably could get the guy who works for the dealer to do it on the side.

BrystonFan

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Re: Bryston CIW Architectural Loudspeaker
« Reply #3 on: 11 Sep 2014, 09:56 pm »
Not to be nosy Phil - but which processor are you going with for the Dolby Atmos?
There is no way I will be "allowed" to add another set of speakers in our family room (currently running 7.1)  even if they are out of the way and in the ceiling.
I did take a look at the new Bryston CIW offering and I agree with you - they are a steal!

Phil A

Re: Bryston CIW Architectural Loudspeaker
« Reply #4 on: 11 Sep 2014, 11:01 pm »
Not to be nosy Phil - but which processor are you going with for the Dolby Atmos?
There is no way I will be "allowed" to add another set of speakers in our family room (currently running 7.1)  even if they are out of the way and in the ceiling.
I did take a look at the new Bryston CIW offering and I agree with you - they are a steal!

Only since you're not being nosy :lol:, my main system has a preamp with HT Bypass and since all the receivers I've seen announced so far (CEDIA is this week) do 4k video half-assed, I'm probably going to wait to do the main system.  I don't have 4k yet (have an Epson 5030 projector) but I also have an Epson 8350 in the master bedroom system (with a 92 inch screen that retracts into the ceiling) and if I get something down the road and move the main system projector, I'd like it to have full capabilities.  I have multiple secondary systems and I had in-ceiling surrounds put in those secondary systems (not in the main system thought wheere I am doing 9.2 - had the house pre-wired with side surrounds, height channels and back channels) and one bedroom has old B&Ws upfront (pics below) and I have B&W LM-1s in the office (and have spare speakers I can move in the office in place of those) so I'm thinking about getting a taste of Atmos by doing 5.1 in addition to the two in ceiling speakers I have.  I have an old Marantz 6003 receiver in there (and an Oppo 103D) and a factory refurb probably can be had at accessories4less.com for around $400.  I can use the Marantz receiver in the office system and retire about a 12-13 year old Sony V444ES (the Marantz sounds better when I listen to JRiver on the computer).  I could just get plant pedestals or stands for the LM-1s and leave them behind the main speakers (so the wires don't run in front of a closet on one side and I don't break my neck getting something) when not in use.  I figure it is a cheap taste of Dolby Atmos so I can evaluate it.  I have all in-ceilings in the master bedroom and in ceiling surrounds in 3 other rooms, although in two of them (the office and another bedroom) I am just doing 2-channel for now.  I generally rotate things to a spare system so if I like what I hear I can always move it somewhere down the road.  With the attic above the master bedroom as well, I can probably put small side surrounds on the night stands and use the rear in ceiling for Atmos down the road at some point.  It's not a rush.  I like to have different systems that can do different things (helps to evaluate how things sound).








Phil A

Re: Bryston CIW Architectural Loudspeaker
« Reply #5 on: 11 Sep 2014, 11:43 pm »
Not to be nosy Phil - but which processor are you going with for the Dolby Atmos?
There is no way I will be "allowed" to add another set of speakers in our family room (currently running 7.1)  even if they are out of the way and in the ceiling.
I did take a look at the new Bryston CIW offering and I agree with you - they are a steal!

The other issues to consider with new receivers are that DTS is working on their competing product to Dolby Atmos.  Not sure when that will be announced and if it may require a whole other set of new hardware.  Also it is my understanding at present the Blu-Ray spec only supports up to 8 channels of audio and there is no physical or steaming solution at the moment.

BrystonFan

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Re: Bryston CIW Architectural Loudspeaker
« Reply #6 on: 13 Sep 2014, 02:28 pm »
Gotta love this ever changing hobby!
Thanks for sharing your pics Phil.
What I'm still struggling with is how you are experimenting with Atmos - are you simply feeding a set of surrounds to the ceilings? Is there not any Atmos signal processing that is required ?

Phil A

Re: Bryston CIW Architectural Loudspeaker
« Reply #7 on: 13 Sep 2014, 06:05 pm »
Gotta love this ever changing hobby!
Thanks for sharing your pics Phil.
What I'm still struggling with is how you are experimenting with Atmos - are you simply feeding a set of surrounds to the ceilings? Is there not any Atmos signal processing that is required ?

Not doing it yet - waiting for about a month or two.  Yes you need Atmos processing.  No Atmos software yet.  The last Transformers movie is scheduled to be the 1st disc with Atmos on September 30 (http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=14840).  So I'll wait until I see what gets released in October or announced as coming.  Like I said I can get a factory refurb at accessories4less.  I have in-ceiling surrounds in that system now and I'm just going to take the B&W LM-1s I have in the office system right now and get a pair of stands and use them as surrounds on the side and the (Sonance) in-ceiling speakers will be used for Atmos.  So likely before the end of the year.  I'll wait on the main system.  I'll look to see how the new Bryston's install (I'll keep bugging James) and perhaps over the winter I'll get them put in the living room ceiling and see what receivers come out in 2015.  I'll get a taste of it before I do all that from the secondary system above.

brwsaw

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Re: Bryston CIW Architectural Loudspeaker
« Reply #8 on: 13 Sep 2014, 10:10 pm »
Yes sad but true I am afraid.

It appears that unless you have a Ceiling speaker no custom installer will consider using your speakers in the rest of the setup = Fronts, Centers, Surrounds etc.  So with all the limitations and performance compromises Ceiling or even Inwall speakers present I have been told we have to offer some.

I really have mixed feelings about it because the Bryston speaker project for me was about Performance First and I feel a little compromised with this. :duh:

james

James,

You could look at is as an opportunity to provide a true in ceiling you would be proud(er) of.
Maybe an 8" high power version? 10"?

werd

Re: Bryston CIW Architectural Loudspeaker
« Reply #9 on: 15 Sep 2014, 06:38 pm »
I don't think these speakers trumps Bryston's philosophy. They just represent different challenges. No they are not going to sound better than your Model Ts. But neither do your Mini's. They just aren't conventional loudspeakers. But i am sure they will sound good considering the obvious obstacles.

BrystonFan

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Re: Bryston CIW Architectural Loudspeaker
« Reply #10 on: 15 Sep 2014, 11:53 pm »
James et al are not going to put the Bryston name on products that are sub-par. That is taking into consideration the "forced" entry into the architectural speaker market. Sure it's not their bread & butter, but I would blindly go with them just because they are put out by a company like Bryston.

yetis

Re: Bryston CIW Architectural Loudspeaker
« Reply #11 on: 16 Sep 2014, 11:39 pm »
Commercial relevance isn't selling out, it's about staying alive in a competitive market.  I applaud the move to get out in front.  One thing I have not seen from any manufacturer is a in/on wall that blends in.  By this, I would love an ceiling/ wall speaker that comes primed and with tear aways over the drivers.  Thus allowing one to install them and then the end user (your wife...) paint them so they blend in. Once painted, remove the tear aways. The challenge being the covers, I admit. http://bryston.com/products/speakers/Model_TOW_On-Wall.html     This might be the best speaker in the world, but it will never hang on my wall, with the wood accent. It might if I could paint it Sea foam green #1...
 

Chris

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston CIW Architectural Loudspeaker
« Reply #12 on: 16 Sep 2014, 11:47 pm »
Commercial relevance isn't selling out, it's about staying alive in a competitive market.  I applaud the move to get out in front.  One thing I have not seen from any manufacturer is a in/on wall that blends in.  By this, I would love an ceiling/ wall speaker that comes primed and with tear aways over the drivers.  Thus allowing one to install them and then the end user (your wife...) paint them so they blend in. Once painted, remove the tear aways. The challenge being the covers, I admit. http://bryston.com/products/speakers/Model_TOW_On-Wall.html     This might be the best speaker in the world, but it will never hang on my wall, with the wood accent. It might if I could paint it Sea foam green #1...
 

Chris

Hi Chris

Yes I understand but there are just so many compromises when you install speakers in walls and ceilings - I agree I have to have something but I see our versions of making the best of a really bad situation and serving the main speakers up front rather than replacing them.

james


brwsaw

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Re: Bryston CIW Architectural Loudspeaker
« Reply #13 on: 20 Sep 2014, 05:45 pm »
James,

Are they available now? I don't see them on the website.

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston CIW Architectural Loudspeaker
« Reply #14 on: 20 Sep 2014, 06:08 pm »
James,

Are they available now? I don't see them on the website.

The ceilings are coming soon - just had the prototype at CEDIA.  The onwall and inwalls are available now.

Below is the 2 pics with grills off.  As you can see true 3-way speakers.





james

Phil A

Re: Bryston CIW Architectural Loudspeaker
« Reply #15 on: 20 Sep 2014, 06:28 pm »
James, pics look really nice.  In the old master bedroom system in the old house, I had on-walls for surrounds (painted them the wall color and left them there).  They really work well for that purpose in many rooms as far as not taking up too much real estate.

drummermitchell

Re: Bryston CIW Architectural Loudspeaker
« Reply #16 on: 21 Sep 2014, 12:59 am »
I had my S-30 surrounds up on the ceiling(behind me about four feet).
The movie immersion was just ok,then I put them on stands(at about three feet in back of me) with tweeters at ear level and what a huge difference for movie immersion.
I wouldn't have ceiling speakers even if they were givin to me.
For 5.1 or even 7.1,ceilings speakers suck big time.
I bet even if you had a foot of space behind you the would sound a hell of a lot better than rear mounted ceiling speakers.
If I remember right (Ethan Winer chatted about this)where with Dolby Prologic they used in big theatres years ago it was used to create some ambiance.
Now it doesn't apply and that can be tested as I did the switch and its a huge difference.
I'm sure with Atmos its a different ball game altogether,but for 5-7.1,no ceiling mounting going on here and its major difference with the REAR SURROUNDS on stands,major difference for movie immersion.

brwsaw

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Re: Bryston CIW Architectural Loudspeaker
« Reply #17 on: 21 Sep 2014, 07:39 am »
The ceilings are coming soon - just had the prototype at CEDIA.
Quote

James,

Do the tweeters need to be aimed or can they also fire straight down?

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston CIW Architectural Loudspeaker
« Reply #18 on: 21 Sep 2014, 09:52 am »
The ceilings are coming soon - just had the prototype at CEDIA.
Quote

James,

Do the tweeters need to be aimed or can they also fire straight down?

The tweeters can rotate or fire straight down.

james


brwsaw

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Re: Bryston CIW Architectural Loudspeaker
« Reply #19 on: 22 Sep 2014, 12:31 am »
Thanks, this is perfect.