[audiogurujax]

Hi Guys I am writing because I need some Advice Please!!!
After owning various speaker I decided to build My First speaker an Open baffle, but I think I went too far LOL. My Idea was to build a 4 tower (2 bass and 2 Highs) system I already bought the Bass driver (8 AE Dipole 15) 4 per channel and I was considering using an BG RD 75 ribbon for the mid and highs which I already own, and cross it at 300hz using a Behringer DEQ 2496, DCX2496 Combo. The only Issue is that I have a Crown K2 for the bass modules but my amp for the BG is a Primaluna Dialog Premium HP 85wpc at 8ohms and the BG RD75 is 88db at 6ohm therefore I am concern that it will not have enough juice for it.
So I decided to explore other options for the Mid-Highs and these are:
1)   A full range array using (9) Tang Band W5-2143 or (9) Markaudio Alpair-10P per channel.
2)   An Ultra High end MT array using (4) ScanSpeak Revelator 18W 7” woofer and (2) ScanSpeak Beryllium Dome Revelator Tweeter one in the front and one in the rear.
3)   A Conservative MT array using (10) Peerless PPB 830860 5.25” or Fountek FW146 5.5” woofers and (20) Vifa BC25SC55-04 1" Textile Dome Tweeter.
Please whish one of these 3 Options you think will be the best solution and best match for the 4 AE dipole 15 I will use.
I obviously prefer 2 way that way I don’t have to invest in an additional 2 channel of amplification or using passive crossovers.
Or should I just do the original option with the BG RD75 and just upgrade my amps.
Best,
Eric

[richidoo]

Welcome to AudioCircle Eric!

The tube amp at 85W will make the BGs play very loudly. I'd try that first.

Sounds like a very cool project. I hope you will share the story with us, bring lots of pictures!
Rich

[Guy 13]

A warm welcome to AudioCircle Mr. Audiogurujax

Guy 13

[JohnR]

Or should I just do the original option with the BG RD75 and just upgrade my amps.

Hi, I would try the original option first. But raise your crossover point to 600-800 Hz. I'm unclear on why you feel you need to upgrade the amps but you can always do that later IF you find you don't have enough juice.

[audiogurujax]

I saw the above speaker at a good price and Bought it it has (12) Dayton RS180-8 7" midbass units and (9) BG NEO8 PDR per channel it is currently using a very basic passive crossover. I have a few questions or concerns:
1- Someone very knowledgeable told me that the RS180 sucks, Is that true?
2- The same Person told me that the baffle are to wide (16") and that this will caused unwanted reflections and distort the imaging, again is that true?
3- The speaker cover all frequencies above 150hz I am building another pair of towers for the bass using 4 AE Dipole 15 per channel, Should I build the bass tower as OB or an H-Frame?
3- My plans are Using a DEQX HPD4 and 3 amps to power the system, I already have the Bass Amp (2) Crown K2s, and I have a Primaluna Dialog Premiun HP Power I plan to use for the RS180. Thats leaves me looking for the right amp for the 9 BG Neo's array which BTW are way less sensitive than the 12 RS180 102db vs 93db apx since the NEO's has no vertical dispersion you gain basically nothing in an array, again that is what I was told LOL

Do you Guys think a good SS amp will be good for the BG's like a Hypex based Merrill Audio Taranis (Hypex 500 based) or should I use the Primaluna for the BG and get a nice 2a3 or 300b SE amp for the rs180 since the array has such a high sensitivity (102db).

Thanks a lot for your help with this crazy project. My wife thinks I am crazy LOL since at the end I will have 18 Planar tweeters, 24 7" Mid bass drivers  and 8 15 inch woofers, in a 15X19 room LOL

[THROWBACK]

a-jax. Sounds like a fun project. I have the GR-Research LS-9's in a similar configuration, except that Danny added wings to smooth out the bass. I could not be happier with them.

As to subs, I believe you used the words "OB or H-frames." My OB's are in an H-frame configuration, so I'm not sure what you are getting at. The important thing is that since your mains are OB, your subs need to be OB also. I tried many subs with an array of planars (Maggies, SoundLabs) but they never sounded right with closed-box subs. Radiation patterns matter. I am using a 3-stack per side of the GR  12" servo woofers and love the deep, punchy, integrated sound that gives me.

No, I am not a shill for GR. I am just very pleased with my system. (I tried to post a picture, but failed, alas!)

[Jonathon Janusz]

Danny at GR has already been mentioned, as he has done a very similar commercial design (look for info on the LS-X in his circle).  Also, you should get in touch with Rich at Hollis Audio Labs (HAL on the forum); his current programmable DSP is both a noticeable step up in sound from the DEQX, as well as notable in that Rich has spent quite some time already tuning his solution to arrays that include the BG drivers.  It might not be a completely turn key solution, but it would be very, very close.

Last, regarding amplification.  Please take my thoughts in light of that the closest comparison I can make to what you have is an only similar array with a passive network throughout.  30-ish tube watts sounded very good, but for me personally it was when the arrays were connected to 300 comparable quality tube watts that the speakers moved from great to amazing.  In this case, I don't think the whole question can be answered in sensitivity alone.  Going active as you intend gives you a lot of options, but I myself would be less inclined to fleawatt SET power - at least maybe not on the mid drivers - and not afraid to make sure there was plenty on tap to push all those drivers when needed.

Great find for a speaker and have fun with it!

[JohnH12]

The RS 180 does not suck, it has some break up above 2,500 Hz that needs to be squashed with a steep crossover slope.

There’s nothing wrong with a 16 inch baffle. The 16 inch baffle changes the dipole low end roll off and the higher frequency dipole null.  You use the baffle width to manage the driver response before equalizing.

The H frame can be more compact than a flat baffle OB, but the H fame has cabinet resonances that mean the x-o point needs to be generally less than 150 to 200 Hz.

The only concern will be how to crossover each of the driver arrays.  +1, a DSP would be a good solution.

[audiogurujax]

Thanks a lot for all the advices, what turn me off is that these towers came with a passive crossover that the builder did the crossover seems right implemented  crossing at 1kh with a high pass at 100hz for the woofers and anotch filter for the BG at 13khz the sound using my Primaluna Dialog HP amp is nice but there is a high pitched on female voices for example Diana Krall voice sounds like a 1000 hz higher than I ever heard her but the worst part is the sound-stage it is none existent i cant locate no instrument or voice is like everything is coming from everywhere I even hear instruments playing behind me is weird LOL

[JohnH12]

I’d be concerned if the sound stage moved. That might be due to having the speaker to close to a boundary or maybe the tower needs to have the driver volume “shaded” where the center speakers have more volume. You can find more information about that in Dr. Jim Griffin’s white paper on line arrays.

[ThePriest]

Hi Audiogurujax.

Having not heard your new speakers (they look impressive), one must be prepared to accept that the presentation from a line source, perhaps even more so when it is OB (?), is very different from say, a two way monitor, which can be very pin-point-like.
As the midrange and highs are distributed over a large physical area (your line array), I think it would be natural that you do not get the very precise stereo image from a good two way monitor.

My own speakers are very similar to yours, and while I think imaging is ok, I have heard it much more precise. But my speakers have a wonderful presentation in so many other ways that a two way box speaker could never compete with, so for me it is a question of preferences.

Regards,

The Priest

[bentconvert]

Reading about the sound stage issues makes me wonder if there are phase issues either with the crossover or driver wiring causing some drivers to be in phase and others out of phase? Have you tried a test CD to check system phase?

[HAL]

I had talked to the previous owner of the speakers about doing measurements needed to design the digital crossover before he sold them. 

It does sound like something is wrong with the existing setup if it does not image correctly.  Possibly polarity to one of the arrays is incorrect as had been mentioned.

Good luck with the project.