[PMAT]

Yes, but they WERE ugly! And your wings are stunning. I would also expect the wings would have better midrange magic. Perhaps not. Have you played around a lot with the rear wave ?

[Housteau]

I think the RM 50s have that majestic functional beauty.

I have nearly  always had dipoles.  My last speakers building up to the VMPS were The Acoustat 1+1, Martin Logan CLS and the Infinity rs1b.  So, I have been very used to that back wave and how to make It work best for me.  I never used that foam wedge Brian supplied with them and much preferred them wide open.  From there I position room treatments to control that effect to create my soundstage.  Some that were not used to dipoles probably preferred to absorb that back wave, but that never made sence to me.  Why create a wonderful dipole then take most of it away?

When my room gets set up I will post more photos and point out the specifics of my treatment choices.

The midrange and entire frequency spectrum from is wonderful.

[Avoosl]

Two points:  Bybee and Time Delay.

   I'm kind of talking to myself here, but in response to my wonderment over how the fine, oh-so refined RM50 sound could come from such pedestrian drivers as it has, it hit me too late to mention earlier, that each of the midrange panels has a Bybee quantum purifier in series.  I know, I know, it sounds like an unobtainium variant, and one and all can read about them here and there.  Simply summed up, it is claimed they lower a component of noise - the curious 1/f noise EEs talk about, and that it "sweetens" the sound.  Tubifies?  Who knows.  Point is, it's possible that their presence behind the panels is responsible for at least some of the magic the RM50s have, and discussion should include this.  Possibly.  They were certainly an expensive parts addition to throw in on a whim  - they were an $8000 extra charge to Brian, as he mentioned to me.  Too few RM50s were in the offing to arrive at a definite pricing schedule, and  I don't know if they were always to be included or were to be an option or not.  With one pair going to me after ces '11, one pair going to Mr. X after ces '12 and - maybe - one or two pairs going to Europe, we're hardly talking of a production-line unit here.

   Time Delay.  Housteau brings up the important point that the subs should be in front of the mains for a coherent wave launch.  Many know this, but few implement it because of its room-stealing ugliness, including me.  A feature of the RM50s external, active crossover is the possibility of delaying the bass and midrange signals going to the mains and - assuming the sub output is hooked up to the crossover - the time delay for the mains' signal can be adjusted to virtually move the subs up closer to the listener so the frequencies align with the stars properly.  I haven't done this yet, but hope to do so.  Thanks to this thread for reminding me.

Bonus point:  Let's not forget that those gleaming black coffins have a 3" mdf  wall, all around, not just in the front baffle,  to provide an eminently dead structure.   

Bob Gallo

[HAL]

Was over at Avoosl's this evening and we were talking about his RM50's.  There were three pair at CES over the years.  The oak finished pair that were the first, the pair he has and the pair with the side woofers. 

He had heard that one pair of RM50's arrived damaged like his but not repaired.  Since I repaired Avoosl's, that might be possible if they are still around.

Since folks were talking about time delay for the mains to match up with the subs, he now has a dspMusik as the digital crossover that runs both the biamped RM50's and the two larger subs.  The dspMusik has 8 channels and can add time delay capability, so it can act as both the crossover and time alignment capability.  Did this for woodsyi on his RM40's and four subs.  Sounded really good to me after we set it up.

The dspMusik has been used to triamp one pair of RM40's as well.  My understanding was that the demo went really well for sound quality.

[Stimpy]

I guess I never realized that there were RM50 variations.  One with side mounted PRs, and another with down firing PRs.  Did both styles use 15" PRs?  Were there enough 50s built, for there to be a final version?

Also, if anyone knows, why were there different woofer styles?  One flat, and one with a large center dust cap.  The flat style woofer even looks smaller than the dust cap woofer.  And again, was there a final version, for the woofers too?






Thanks!

[HAL]

Well Avoosl's was between the two pictures you posted.

The final pair style was the side mounted PR's from The Shows. 

My question was are the other two these pairs working?  I know Avoosl's are working.

He also had different woofers installed when they arrived.  He asked Brian to send the woofers like from the show to install.

[Avoosl]

Stimpy - based on my conversations with Casler, very few were built, even when you lump the three versions together - 2010, 2011(mine), and 2012. 

2010:  The light oak veneered one pictured above was a prototype for the "series".  So proto was it, in the rush to get it to the CES, Brian said the opening for the rear-firing drivers was notched out with an ax, and the drivers were sort of crammed in!  I never heard that any others of this first year were sold, but I would think it was likely - at least one or two, maybe to Europe? 

2011:  This looks the same as the 2012 pictured above, except that it has a 12" down-firing PR.  I believe this was the first year for placing the amusing Quantum Purifiers (QP sticks) behind the midrange panels.  I know one other unit from this year was delivered to the east coast, but arrived in disrepair, and the owner declined to have it fixed.  Casler hinted that one or two others may have been sold in California and one to Europe, though he was oddly unsure.

2012: As in the picture, it has the 15" side-firing PR, which I believe James Romeyn suggested to Brian.  I never heard if this model had the QP sticks or not.

        If I had to put a number to it, I would guess only 6 to 8 pairs of the whole series sold.  With such numbers talk of a "final version" are moot.

       Regarding the woofer styles - flat vs dust-cap woofer - I've only ever seen the ones without the dust cap.  I spoke to Brian a few times after mine arrived with replacement woofers after the originals were damaged at CES.  Some of mine were wired out of phase (cancelling nicely), others were disconnected.  As a remedy for my dismay he offered to send two full sets (8 drivers altogether) for me to pick the ones I liked best and return the others.  One set was Eminence metallic something or other.  The ones I kept are the stock LAB-12s.  I could not get out of him exactly which ones were used at the show.  "Just keep the set you like best."  This was most accommodating, so, rather than argue I did just that.  There were other mysteries here which are now beyond investigation, but I'd like to say, if not for HAL (my friend Rich) and his illuminating help I would have been at a loss.

[ZAKski288]

Picture VMPS RM50 Gloss Black at 2011 T.H.E. Show Las Vegas
Quote from Brian  We intended to show the new version of the RM50 with TC Sounds 12" actives.  Unfortunately these were not ready by Show time.  I therefore had Eminence make up clones with metal cones (and plastic dustcaps), 160oz magnets, 2 layer, 400W voicecoils, and 16mm of Xmax.

[jqp]

Picture VMPS RM50 Gloss Black at 2011 CES Show
...

That wasn't the 2011 CES show, it was the 2011 T.H.E. Show Las Vegas, held at the same time as CES. I went to both shows and have pictures of the VMPS room myself. Brian did one of those "is it live or recorded" demos, there were some professional musicians participating.

Found one! I seem to recall Ampzillas and WiWires? being involved.

[HAL]

That looks like the pair of RM50's that Avoosl has in his room. 

It was a fun challenge getting them working again when he got them and they work very well now. 

[Stimpy]

Stimpy - based on my conversations with Casler, very few were built, even when you lump the three versions together - 2010, 2011(mine), and 2012...If I had to put a number to it, I would guess only 6 to 8 pairs of the whole series sold.  With such numbers talk of a "final version" are moot.

Thanks so much for the detailed response.  I really appreciate that.  And I guess I shouldn't be surprised that so few RM50s were built.  It was basically, Brian's last design.  There wouldn't be much opportunity to build many pairs.

[John Casler]

Yes, the RM50's were B's SWAN SONG and not many were actually made.

Brian never mentioned how many he made totally, but I placed 4 pair with owners.  There may have been another 3-4 pairs out there.

The very first year we had them in Vegas, B pulled me aside and told me he was being treated for Prostate Cancer and Diabetes, and was "slowing" a bit.

Even so, aside from sitting maybe even more than normal, he held up well under the hectic stresses of show conditions.

While it seemed normal to play live music and then play it back on VMPS speakers after a few years of doing it, you WILL NOT find another Speaker Builder BRAVE enough to do it.

The RM-50 was a product and project unto itself, BORN out of the Live vs VMPS demos.  Brian, considered all the elements of how to RE-CREATE Live  Music in a second environment.  There were LOTS of challenges, but i don't know of anyone in the HISTORY of AUDIO who succeeded to the same level as Brian Cheney.

[undertow]

While it seemed normal to play live music and then play it back on VMPS speakers after a few years of doing it, you WILL NOT find another Speaker Builder BRAVE enough to do it.

The RM-50 was a product and project unto itself, BORN out of the Live vs VMPS demos.  Brian, considered all the elements of how to RE-CREATE Live  Music in a second environment.  There were LOTS of challenges, but i don't know of anyone in the HISTORY of AUDIO who succeeded to the same level as Brian Cheney.

Not saying this to argue or even disagree, but I know Zu did this (or very similar) for a few years back in the early, mid 2000's, and it may have been even years before VMPS in fact did it in the later years...

[HAL]

An article that talks about even earlier live vs recorded demos.

http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2010/07/why-live-versus-recorded-listening.html

[undertow]

Well no argument there! However, it's more impressive to use the speaker in the modern audio world as a Rock Concert P.A. for playback than a simple acappella demo I guess?

[HAL]

Actually for a home concert one time at Avoosl's place we used his STIII's as the sound reinforcement for a singer with guitar.  Worked well and sounded very good to me.  She sat with her guitar between the speakers with the mics.

[John Casler]

Brian's personal inspiration grew from the earlier Acoustic Research efforts, specifically the outdoor efforts.

He may have posted about that early on.  He was impressed.

Not familiar with the Zu demo.

[Stimpy]

Those early Acoustic Research 'Live' demo's were really successful, usually using AR-3 or AR-3a speakers.  The demo's were held in 'normal' public locations.  But they worked well, because at their peak, Acoustic Research speaker sales accounted for 32.2% of the US speaker market.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_Research

I still have a pair of AR90s, bought directly from the Teledyne AR factory.  Teledyne employees, from any division, were allowed to buy AR speakers at cost.  It didn't take me long to save up and buy a pair.  Never regretted it.