Re: Zu Omen - cheap or cheerful or both?

Levi · « **Reply #360 on:** 27 Dec 2010, 04:34 pm »

Charles, I think you deserve the best Zu has to offer because you have a great room to start. I truly like the sound of the Zu/Esoteric/Pass lab that Ron brought to Deepak's house.

They cost more but they truly great full-range sounding and will look good in your beautiful room.

Nevertheless, good luck.

Quote from: Charles Xavier on 24 Dec 2010, 05:50 pm

I may need a place to sleep. I'll call you when they come in.

morganc · « **Reply #361 on:** 27 Dec 2010, 08:10 pm »

HI Levi....would love to hear more about the Pass Labs with the ZU combo.....which speakers was it and which model of amp?

Quote from: Levi on 27 Dec 2010, 04:34 pm

Charles, I think you deserve the best Zu has to offer because you have a great room to start. I truly like the sound of the Zu/Esoteric/Pass lab that Ron brought to Deepak's house.

They cost more but they truly great full-range sounding and will look good in your beautiful room.

Nevertheless, good luck.

Levi · « **Reply #362 on:** 27 Dec 2010, 08:25 pm »

Ah sure. I think we have that documented.

We listened to two pairs of Zu Essence speakers in two different rooms. 2A3s monoblocks, Pass Labs XA 30.5, Modwright 9.0SE linestage, Peachtree Audio Nova, a variety of pre-amps, maybe a RM-10, Esoteric CD player.

Here is the link to the Zu House Party and impressions.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=72591.120

djbnh · « **Reply #363 on:** 29 Dec 2010, 03:22 am »

Haven't done any critical listening with my main gear since the Omen Defs are undergoing burn-in in the basement, just the odd track or two to get a little sense of what the speakers can offer. I have experienced the following so far: the speakers respond well to toe-in and being angled upward (aftermarket spikes could help nicely), the speakers definitely seem to profit from being burned in, the sound is still unsettled but promising with some decent imaging, and the bass at this point does not go all that low - again, the speakers are not all that carefully aligned in a section of the basement. So far I want to hear more, which I take to be a good thing.

The burn-in period has allowed me to do some reading and I came across and I came across a Stereophile article by Art Dudley about Zu's DL-103 makeover. Within the conclusion section of the story the author recounts how the Zu icon when turned 1/4 clockwise resembles a rabbit. Well, my wife has this thing for rabbits (you should see the number of them in one form or another around home, and once I told her about the icon, it may have complicated having the speakers leave the house, which is not a bad thing unless they not pass the listening test phase in a couple weeks.

RolandButcher · « **Reply #364 on:** 29 Dec 2010, 04:29 pm »

Sam-fi, are the Omen Defs replacing those Bose cubes in your HT setup? If so, that is one heckuva upgrade.

sebrof · « **Reply #365 on:** 30 Dec 2010, 11:42 pm »

Cheap or cheerful? I say both.
$1000 for a quality, hand-made in USA speaker with 95% made in USA parts is pretty cheap. And I've been playing my Omens for a few hours and they are making me cheerful. I suspect they'll change slightly over the next days / weeks, but I doubt they'll sound like different speakers so what I have is pretty close to the final product.
I have a pair of older Tekton Design Katz Meows (I posted previously with a pic) and they are both in the same league, not a night and day difference. Both excellent speakers. I would guess that the new Tekton Lore might be a closer match to the Omen, both having 10 inchers.
More to come from me, but so far I really like what I hearing.

morganc · « **Reply #366 on:** 3 Jan 2011, 06:26 am »

I would love to hear more of your impressions now that the Omens are increasing in number and hopefully soon all broken in. It would be nice also to compare experiences with different amps. I have heard the Omen Defs with my Melody 2A3 and last week I had a friend bring over his RWA integrated and I was pleasantly surprised.

morganc · « **Reply #367 on:** 3 Jan 2011, 06:30 am »

Thanks Levi.....I have browsed throught that thread a few times, and I couldn't really find much of the impressions with each amp....but I will dig through it again. I am considering going with a Modwright 9.0SWE pre with a solid state Modwright or Pass Lab amp of anyone has ever heard this combo or has any thoughts on the matter.

Quote from: Levi on 27 Dec 2010, 08:25 pm

Ah sure. I think we have that documented.

We listened to two pairs of Zu Essence speakers in two different rooms. 2A3s monoblocks, Pass Labs XA 30.5, Modwright 9.0SE linestage, Peachtree Audio Nova, a variety of pre-amps, maybe a RM-10, Esoteric CD player.

Here is the link to the Zu House Party and impressions.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=72591.120

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #368 on:** 3 Jan 2011, 11:56 am »

I doubt you'll find aftermarket spikes tall enough to get the elevation and tilt needed for the Omens. I found 3 inch lag bolts for the front and two inch ones for the rear to work the best of any combination I tried. The highly polished finish on these Home Depot bolts look much better than Zu's dull stock feet.

That one inch tilt allows the drivers to be aimed directly at my ears when seated in their toed-in sweet spot.

04dgmsilv · « **Reply #369 on:** 3 Jan 2011, 12:52 pm »

Quote from: morganc on 3 Jan 2011, 06:30 am

Thanks Levi.....I have browsed throught that thread a few times, and I couldn't really find much of the impressions with each amp....but I will dig through it again. I am considering going with a Modwright 9.0SWE pre with a solid state Modwright or Pass Lab amp of anyone has ever heard this combo or has any thoughts on the matter.

That is a great combo with the other Zu speakers, I don't know why the Omens would be any different. I have run a 9.0SE Sig with either a First Watt F3 or F5 (DIY) on my Druids (previously) and Essence (now) for the last 3-4 years, and I'm not searching for another overall combo from the tube pre/Class A amp. I actually just ordered one of the CES demos from modwright, LS100 w/ phono stage. So I am making some minor updates to the system, but I will be sticking with that overall preamp/amp concept.

Regards,
Dan

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #370 on:** 3 Jan 2011, 01:00 pm »

Srajan Ebaen likened the Dayens Ampino to a First Watt F5. I had one and it was very nice, but the 300b that replaced it is in an entirely different league in every way imaginable. And even though it has less power than the Ampino, it plays louder with more authority.

Levi · « **Reply #371 on:** 3 Jan 2011, 04:04 pm »

In my opinion, the Modwright 9.0SE Sig, Pass Lab Amp and Esoteric Universal CDP should be kept in as the main system with a matching speaker. I wouldn't match it with cheap speakers. For the Cheap and Cheerful or "bedroom setup", choose a cheaper preamp/amp/cd or dac combo. That's just me.

Gopher · « **Reply #372 on:** 3 Jan 2011, 04:15 pm »

I haven't heard the Omens or Omen Defs, but as a Soul Superfly owner who has used the F1, F1J and Aleph monos with his Zus, I respectfully disagree with your statement.

The Zus are perfectly capable of leveraging what those amplifiers have to offer--they aren't absurdly priced, but at a $1500 retail, the omens aren't what I'd consider 'cheap' speakers and Pass gear is perfectly at home with them.

ncblue · « **Reply #373 on:** 3 Jan 2011, 04:45 pm »

Yeah Gopher, I agree. I'm am using a Naim Supernait amp ($5000) with my Soul Superflys. This amp replaced the Modwright SWP 9.0se and a BAT vk-55 amp in my system. The Zu's are very capable speakers and deserve good amplification.
Nat

morganc · « **Reply #374 on:** 3 Jan 2011, 05:51 pm »

Having compared many amps with the Zu's that I have owned, it is quite remarkable the differences between each one even to my untrained and self acknowledged less than remarkable ears.....so thanks for all of the input.....

sebrof · « **Reply #375 on:** 3 Jan 2011, 07:27 pm »

morganc - We have the same ears.
I've been breaking the standard Omens in with a vintage Yamaha R-2000 receiver, 150 wpc. I'm not a vintage SS guy, but I believe the R-2000 is pretty highly regarded in those circles (beautiful piece, btw).
Sounds no where near as good to me as with any of my SE tube stuff. I have no PP tube gear at the moment.
I just got the big bolts as suggested by Poultrygeist, haven't installed them yet. I have about 50 hours on the Omens. I'll do my due diligence and run them in for another week or so (although I believe they're pretty much done) before I form any opinions. A Tekton Katz Meow / Zu Omen comparison should be fun.

morganc · « **Reply #376 on:** 3 Jan 2011, 08:18 pm »

Quote from: sebrof on 3 Jan 2011, 07:27 pm

morganc - We have the same ears.
I've been breaking the standard Omens in with a vintage Yamaha R-2000 receiver, 150 wpc. I'm not a vintage SS guy, but I believe the R-2000 is pretty highly regarded in those circles (beautiful piece, btw).
Sounds no where near as good to me as with any of my SE tube stuff. I have no PP tube gear at the moment.
I just got the big bolts as suggested by Poultrygeist, haven't installed them yet. I have about 50 hours on the Omens. I'll do my due diligence and run them in for another week or so (although I believe they're pretty much done) before I form any opinions. A Tekton Katz Meow / Zu Omen comparison should be fun.

I found and installed the same bolts and I do think it was quite a useful tweak, though I need to uninstall them now that they are broken in for comparison sake....btw I did find them in black and they do not look too bad in black at all.

djbnh · « **Reply #377 on:** 4 Jan 2011, 12:35 am »

Quote from: Poultrygeist on 3 Jan 2011, 11:56 am

I doubt you'll find aftermarket spikes tall enough to get the elevation and tilt needed for the Omens. I found 3 inch lag bolts for the front and two inch ones for the rear to work the best of any combination I tried. The highly polished finish on these Home Depot bolts look much better than Zu's dull stock feet.

That one inch tilt allows the drivers to be aimed directly at my ears when seated in their toed-in sweet spot.

I think my Omen Defs reached the point of being pretty much burned in this past weekend (thanks again, Isotek disc) and brought them into my main system Saturday. I first used the standard bolts that came with the speakers and placed that pairing atop 1.25" granite slabs, but subsequently changed over to the Zu spikes. I like the presentation better with the spike/granite combo, and if I keep the speakers, I'll upgrade the spikes. I have a slight pitch upward on the speakers.

My first generic impressions are that the Omen Defs when dialed in (take your time dialing these in. I found that tweaks to the speaker pitch front-to-rear, and in position including distance from rear / side walls and toe-in, had definite effects on what I was hearing.) have a nicely detailed presentation with a fair soundstage depth and width. The detail is such that it will let you know if your source material is well or poorly recorded. My listening so far includes rock (Pink Floyd, AC/DC, White Stripes, Peter Gabriel [more on what I found listening to Peter Gabriel in a bit], etc.), blues (Eric Clapton, Buddy Guy, B.B. King, etc.), bluegrass (a bunch of Allison Krause/ AK & Union Station) and electronica (Chemical Brothers [same issue as Gabriel material], Thomas Dolby). Most were presented ably and the spouse and I found we heard detail not previously revealed, a nice plus.

I have some questions regarding the speakers' performance handling lots of information at once, so I'll need some additional listening time to work that out. I also need to hear them with classical, which I hope to be interesting.

However, a potential downside for me is that one should not expect the Defs to get low in the bass, as a number of Peter Gabriel songs easily and acutely revealed; I was missing information I previously had with my other speakers. Listening to some Chemical Brothers again made this apparent. The lack of low bass (Zu advertised the Defs get down to 30 Hz, so I thought I knew what I was testing) caused me to pause. Figure the heir-apparent to the Zu Method sub to come in at $1,900. With the Def sale price of $1,800 + $1,900 = $3,700, we're way past cheep and cheerful. Take the non-sale price of Zus and the Def/sub combo comes in at $4,700, and there are a number of speakers in that price range that may not need as much sub augmentation as I feel the Defs need. Yes, there's bass, just not the low end bass. Again, Zu does not advertise the Defs get that low.

That's it for now, I'll keep burning in the speakers 24/7 when not in a listening session. Oh, equipment for testing included Odyssey Extreme Mono amps (Chris VenHaus cryoed Flavor 4 PCs), Groneberg speaker cables, Odyssey Tempest preamp (Chris VenHaus cryoed Flavor 2 PC), Jolida JD-100 cdp (JHS Gold Label Sylvania 5751WA triple mica black plates, Chris VenHaus cryoed Flavor 1 PC, Herbie's Hal-O 9 tube dampers), Grover Huffman ICs. Haven't touched the vinyl yet.

edit - corrected typo

sebrof · « **Reply #378 on:** 4 Jan 2011, 01:50 am »

Quote from: djbnh on 4 Jan 2011, 12:35 am

I think my Omen Defs reached the point of being pretty much burned in this past weekend (thanks again, Isotek disc) and brought them into my main system Saturday. I first used the standard bolts that came with the speakers and placed that pairing atop 1.25" granite slabs, but subsequently changed over to the Zu spikes.

I have some questions regarding the speakers' performance handling lots of information at once, so I'll need some additional listening time to work that out.

However, a potential downside for me is that one should not expect the Defs to get low in the bass,

Hello djbnh - I am haering the same as you when the music gets busy. I don't like it, but I'm not nearly set up properly yet so I'm not too worried.

Bass - I have had a problem in my room with many speakers with too much bass muddying up the midrange. That's why I think the 8" Tektons worked so well for me. My Omens have too much bass. Sounds good, but it's too much and it's muddying up the midrange (I believe). I had the Zu spikes on carpet set to where the speaker bottom was low to the carpet (spikes screwed in almost all the way). I just now 5 minutes ago unscrewed the spikes to the other extreme where there is a bigger gap between the bottom of the speaker and the carpet. Not enough bass, so I'll try to find the sweet spot.
My Point - You may want to play with the spacing if you haven't already.

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #379 on:** 4 Jan 2011, 01:15 pm »

It's certainly worth experimenting with the length of the Omen feet to get the right clearance from the floor to improve the bass.

When I used the stock feet and spikes I found the bass too boomy. Now that they are raised 2 inches in the front and 1 inch in the rear it's much better. I may try even longer 3/8 inch lag bolts to see how the Omens respond to even greater distances off the floor.

90% of my music is small group jazz and the Omens cover the double bass range well.