[joegator81]

I've been looking at upgrading my power amp (NAD c270) as it is most likely the weakest link in my system.

Speakers: Songtowers
Sub: Epik Legend
Pre: Parasound Classic
Power: NAD c270
Analog: Clearaudio Concept w/ Concept MC
Phono Pre: Musical Surroundings Phenomena II
Digital: Halide HD

For the most part I really like most of what i'm getting from the NAD but I just want more of it and less of the little complaints that I have. I like the warmth that his amp has in the mids and lows. The trebles aren't bad but can become hard if the amp is pushed too much. Also, I think the midbass could use a little more punch and definition. The amp can also get slightly congested when music starts getting complicated. Bass lines that may have started out well detailed can get lost behind other instruments and become harder to follow. All that being said, I've used this amp for a couple of years now and been quite happy because it is very musical and mostly easy going as long as the recording allows. I want to keep that factor with whatever I decide to get next.

I've been eyeballing the following amps on the used market:

McCormack DNA-125 (i'm leaning towards this one as of right now, almost all reviews really positive)
PS Audio HCA-2 (apparently mods really make this one shine)
Classe CA-101 (not too many reviews to be found, a few owners seem to be happy with it)
BAT VK-200 (most expensive and a little more than I wanted to spend but could stretch if it would be worth it)
Primare A30.2 (can't find much of anything about this amp other than the specs)
Bel Canto Ref 150s (lowest wattage at 75 wpc, makes me a little uneasy)
Odyssey Stratos (I assumed these would be the easy choice but the more I read the more uneasy I become, so many used on Agon right now and the reviews seem to be varied in terms of what they sound like, some say "cold, dark" and some say "warm" or "between SS and tubes")

So, any opinions on the improvement of sound quality I could expect would be greatly appreciated as would be any recommendations. As far as price all of those amps listed are $700-$1000 on the pre-owned market.

Thanks,

Joe

[ricardojoa]

IMO the song towers is not a hard drive speaker at all!
I have two 4 ohms rated speakers yet one could get my amp run hot while the song towers will get warm.
If you dont mind , may i ask what room treatments you have?
If you are experiencing what you are experiencing, it may not be the speakers or amp, but what the room is reflecting back at you specially when you turn up the  volume, things is magnified. I had that issue too, and when i got some 4 inches panels, it greatly helped alot.
I dont know lound you listen and i dont know the exact word, but fultter echo in bass region can screw how you perceived the bass is.

[sfox7076]

Look at BRM's Synergy 300 amp. 

[joegator81]

IMO the song towers is not a hard drive speaker at all!
I have two 4 ohms rated speakers yet one could get my amp run hot while the song towers will get warm.
If you dont mind , may i ask what room treatments you have?
If you are experiencing what you are experiencing, it may not be the speakers or amp, but what the room is reflecting back at you specially when you turn up the  volume, things is magnified. I had that issue too, and when i got some 4 inches panels, it greatly helped alot.
I dont know lound you listen and i dont know the exact word, but fultter echo in bass region can screw how you perceived the bass is.

I just bought a new home and so my system has been in two very different rooms. The only similarity is tile floors which I covered with a high pile rug in each room. The old room was an enclosed third bedroom. In the new home its a large open living room. I am using GIK panels and corner traps as well as heavy'ish curtains over the large wall of windows. The room is treated very well. I could probably through down another rug over some exposed tile that leads into the dining room (I hate tile but in florida it really is used in 90% of the homes in my price range unfortunately). Again, I could live with this system as it is for a long time if I had too, it really isn't bad at all but I just wanted to improve the "weak link" if I could. I listened today for about 3 hours straight and never had fatigue as those "complaints" never really impeded on my listening pleasure. I just want to improve my system where I can. If you don't think a change in amp would be much benefit then that is fine, I welcome all opinions but it has been my experience that amps do make a difference. I had an amp prior to the NAD that was more expensive and was much less musical and seemed to excel at producing that artificial detail that always leads to fatigue. Don't want to go down that route again.

[joegator81]

Look at BRM's Synergy 300 amp.

I'll look into it. Thanks. What do you like about the amp? How would you characterize its "sound"?

[kingdeezie]

This might not be the popular opinion, but I might replace your preamp first.

Im my experiance, the difference between preamps is much bigger than amps, as long as the speakers are being  powered sufficiently.

With 1-2k, you might be able to get yourself a pretty solid tube preamplifier, and potentially improve your sound greatly.

Hard treble, and congestion sound  like more of a preamp issue.

Not to say your Parasound Classic 2100 is a bad preamplifier, but you can certainly do better with 1-2k on the used market.

A used Manley Shrimp, or something like it, might blow your  mind.

[joegator81]

This might not be the popular opinion, but I might replace your preamp first.

Im my experiance, the difference between preamps is much bigger than amps, as long as the speakers are being  powered sufficiently.

With 1-2k, you might be able to get yourself a pretty solid tube preamplifier, and potentially improve your sound greatly.

Hard treble, and congestion sound  like more of a preamp issue.

Not to say your Parasound Classic 2100 is a bad preamplifier, but you can certainly do better with 1-2k on the used market.

A used Manley Shrimp, or something like it, might blow your  mind.
[/quote

thanks for the advice but here's the rub:

I forgot to mention that my 2-channel is integrated into my home theater system so the 2100's pass through and bass management is an absolute necessity for me and there just aren't that many preamps that have this feature. I've considered going up to the P5 but the jury is still out on how much better it is than the 2100. I would love to upgrade the pre but my requirements make for very slim pickings in the used department. However, I will take any suggestions on that front as well.

[joegator81]

This might not be the popular opinion, but I might replace your preamp first.

Im my experiance, the difference between preamps is much bigger than amps, as long as the speakers are being  powered sufficiently.

With 1-2k, you might be able to get yourself a pretty solid tube preamplifier, and potentially improve your sound greatly.

Hard treble, and congestion sound  like more of a preamp issue.

Not to say your Parasound Classic 2100 is a bad preamplifier, but you can certainly do better with 1-2k on the used market.

A used Manley Shrimp, or something like it, might blow your  mind.
[/quote

thanks for the advice but here's the rub:

I forgot to mention that my 2-channel is integrated into my home theater system so the 2100's pass through and bass management is an absolute necessity for me and there just aren't that many preamps that have this feature. I've considered going up to the P5 but the jury is still out on how much better it is than the 2100. I would love to upgrade the pre but my requirements make for very slim pickings in the used department. However, I will take any suggestions on that front as well.

thanks for the advice but here's the rub:

I forgot to mention that my 2-channel is integrated into my home theater system so the 2100's pass through and bass management is an absolute necessity for me and there just aren't that many preamps that have this feature. I've considered going up to the P5 but the jury is still out on how much better it is than the 2100. I would love to upgrade the pre but my requirements make for very slim pickings in the used department. However, I will take any suggestions on that front as well.

[WGH]

I'll look into it. Thanks. What do you like about the amp? How would you characterize its "sound"?

The Synergy 300 is on the warm side of neutral, excellent bass control and punch, clear non-grainy highs, and a very nice mid-range. The sound never gets harsh no matter how loud you go. I use the 300's bigger brother on the Salk HT2-TL's. All of the AVA electronics are a perfect match for the SongTowers.

[sfox7076]

What Wayne said.  AVA + Salk = bliss

[joegator81]

sent a couple PM's to you guys about the AVA's

[Big Red Machine]

Look at BRM's Synergy 300 amp.

Thanks!  My Synergy for sale is listed here in the Marketplace under amplifiers.

It does not take much to power ST's.  They are an easy load to drive.

[RDavidson]

This might not be the popular opinion, but I might replace your preamp first.

Im my experiance, the difference between preamps is much bigger than amps, as long as the speakers are being  powered sufficiently.

With 1-2k, you might be able to get yourself a pretty solid tube preamplifier, and potentially improve your sound greatly.

Hard treble, and congestion sound  like more of a preamp issue.

Not to say your Parasound Classic 2100 is a bad preamplifier, but you can certainly do better with 1-2k on the used market.

A used Manley Shrimp, or something like it, might blow your  mind.

Actually I owned the NAD C370 a long time ago (the integrated version of the C270). What the OP is expressing pretty much mirrors my impressions. It's a punchy and "exciting" sounding amp, but is rather unrefined especially by today's standards.
I agree with what you're saying about preamps, but in this case, I agree with OP. The NAD is the weak link. It'd be a good bass amp, if your speakers are bi-ampable.

[DEP14]

This might not be the popular opinion, but I might replace your preamp first.

Im my experiance, the difference between preamps is much bigger than amps, as long as the speakers are being  powered sufficiently.

With 1-2k, you might be able to get yourself a pretty solid tube preamplifier, and potentially improve your sound greatly.

A wise man (BRM) once told me the same. He was right.

That said, I would look at BRM's amp, or if you are patient and can stretch the budget a bit... be on the lookout for a used Butler tube hybrid amp.  Very nice, very musical.

[sfox7076]

DIY Tortuga is the best preamp value. $500 or so and you have a crystal clear, un-colored pre.

[joegator81]

DIY Tortuga is the best preamp value. $500 or so and you have a crystal clear, un-colored pre.

can this preamp be configured w/ a HT Bypass and a Sub output?

[hogzilla]

AVA and Salk are a perfect pairing. If I didn't have a Mc 275 I'd be looking at the AVA Ultravalve Tube Amp. http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2013/10/16/rmaf-2013-salk-sound-and-audio-by-van-alstine/

[avahifi]

We do have a demo Ultravalve amplifier used only for a product review and returned in new condition.  This one is available for 15% off ($1699) and includes a new three year parts and labor warranty (except tubes) and a 30 day satisfaction guarantee.

Call me at 651-330-9871 if you want it.  Otherwise Pete's Synergy 300 would be ideal too.

Frank Van Alstine

[jaw5279]

AVA and Salk are a perfect pairing. If I didn't have a Mc 275 I'd be looking at the AVA Ultravalve Tube Amp. http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2013/10/16/rmaf-2013-salk-sound-and-audio-by-van-alstine/

I second the Ultravalve suggestion.  Over time I have matched my SongTowers with equipment from NAD, Musical Fidelity, and the AVA Ultravalve.  By far, the Ultravalve was the best match. 

[hogzilla]

Indeed. I had Frank build a Fet Valve CF preamp for me a couple months ago and it was a pleasure to work with him. Excellent customer service and incredible build quality. His gear is made to be held onto for a very long time. AVA and Salk are two of the best "bang for the buck" companies in high end audio. Can't go wrong.