LDRx Passive Preamp Tour

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WireNut

Re: LDRx Passive Preamp Tour
« Reply #40 on: 31 Oct 2013, 12:16 am »

Spoke to another customer today who just broke his femur while riding his bike - got sideswiped by a car.


Holy shit, I've heard of this happening before and that driver's sometimes keep on going. That's why I don't ride on the street......








tortugaranger

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Re: LDRx Passive Preamp Tour
« Reply #41 on: 31 Oct 2013, 12:23 am »
Sorry to hear of your accident Greg. I promise not to handle my 14" Wusthof chef knife while the LDR1 is here.
        The chip comparison should be very interesting. Would there be any danger of long term damage if the rest of the tour were to include both chips for evaluation? Is there any worry that multiple changes would harm the socket in any way?  I could totally understand if Morten wanted me to send the old chip back to him immediately as, going forward, this is how the LDR1 will be delivered in the future.

Konut et. al.

Since it's 99+% certain that all LDR products will soon be shipping with the upgraded high Z software, I suggest you swap out the chip and go forward with your review and the tour using the new software only. There's no harm in doing a before & after when you do the swap. Would be interesting to get your before and after impressions.  I use high quality gold plated sockets in the boards to mitigate any problems with repeated removal and insertion...or long term corrosion.

Konut, I hope to get the updated chip sent out to you next week. The LDR3x and LDR1/6 use slightly different software and since I did the LDR3x first I still have to revise the LDR1/6.

Also, it's debatable whether it's worth your time & postage to mail the old chip back separately. Suggest it go along for the ride with the LDR1 and it will get back here eventually. It's nominally a $5 processor so no rush and also no worries if it never makes it back at all.

Cheers,
Morten

konut

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Re: LDRx Passive Preamp Tour
« Reply #42 on: 31 Oct 2013, 01:01 am »
I thought it might be interesting to some of the future participants in the tour, as I feel privileged to be the one to be able to compare initially. I'll let future tourees decide whether to compare chips if they so desire. Thanks for the opportunity. Hope my system and ears are up to the task as to if there is a difference.

Syrah

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Re: LDRx Passive Preamp Tour
« Reply #43 on: 31 Oct 2013, 05:35 pm »
Hi Morten - does your new chip effect the DYI module, or just the full pre?

tortugaranger

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Re: LDRx Passive Preamp Tour
« Reply #44 on: 31 Oct 2013, 05:40 pm »
Hi Morten - does your new chip effect the DYI module, or just the full pre?

The new hi-z software update is applicable to all of our LDR based preamp products. Of course it will be a lot easier to replace the chip on the DIY board. How, when and for how much we roll this out is still being worked out in terms of possible retrofit to existing units.

Best,
Morten

gregfisk

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Re: LDRx Passive Preamp Tour
« Reply #45 on: 4 Nov 2013, 07:08 am »
Well,

After a foot surgery, a week in a big ass boot and not able to take it off, stand on it or sleep without it I'm about to go crazy. Might as well write a review of the LDR1........ Hopefully the pain medication doesn't get in the way.

My system consists of a 2011 stock mac mini with 8Gb of ram and (2) Oyen Digital 1TB hard drives as back up. I’m running this into an M2Tech Evo Stack and then into my Metrum Octave Dac. My pre amp is a Joule Electra LA150MK11 SE and amps are (2) TBI Millennia MG3 Mk II and a Butler 2250 which is a high powered hybrid amp.

To start out I replaced the Joule pre amp with the LDR1, I would not call this a fair fight as the Joule is currently $7200.00 new. I really like tubes somewhere in my system and the Joule is currently the only thing I’m using in the chain. First of all I have to say I really like the remote on the LDR1, it does everything you need it to and more, the balance relock and the fade on the mute button is a nice touch. Having a system without a remote is a non starter for me so that's a good enough reason to buy a LDR1 on its own in my mind. As soon as I started listening using the LDR1 and TBI amps I noticed an immediate loss of depth and width of sound stage, I also noticed less decay around the notes and less fullness to the sound and sound stage. Now, I have heard this before and it didn't come as a surprise. The TBI amps are not a good match with my speakers which are about 86db efficient and need a lot of power to get them going. I purchased these amps to go with my Super V speakers which I haven't built yet, but that is a different story. Without the gain of the Joule the amps have an even harder time so this is what I expected with a passive pre. The question then was, does the LDR1 take anything away or add anything to the sound? Well, the great thing about the TBI amps is they have a volume control and I could test that, so I did.

I removed the LDR1 from my system hooking the amps direct to my source and speakers and played the same 4 songs I had just listened to. I could not hear any difference at all, the detail was the same, the sound stage was the same and I just couldn't tell that I had removed the LDR1. What this made me realize is that the TBI amps, at least with my current speakers don't do much for my sound stage and also just how good my Joule is at producing one. It also made me realize just how transparent the LDR1 is.

I then put the LDR1 back into my system and replaced my TBI amps with my Butler 2250. This is a much better match with my speakers and I wanted to see if that did anything to the sound stage. Well, the sound was much larger and fuller and I immediately recognized the sound of my Butler amp. Once again I could hear absolutely nothing added or taken away by the LDR1 and this really got me thinking. This is the perfect product to build a system around. You can get the sound you’re looking for from your other components and simply use the LDR1 as a controller of source and volume. This probably seems obvious to someone who has thought about this but I’ve been going about it the exact opposite and hadn’t thought about the possibilities.  I’ve been using very revealing components and getting my tube goodness from the preamp.

 I guess the point is the LDR1 isn't going to make your system sound the way you want it to, unless the way you want it to sound is like it already did before you added the LDR1. The take away for me is the LDR1 just doesn't have a signature, or its signature is invisible, so it just lets everything else do what everything else is supposed to do.

Thank You Morten for making this possible, it was fun for me and informative.

Greg

 


Randy

Re: LDRx Passive Preamp Tour
« Reply #46 on: 4 Nov 2013, 04:56 pm »
Well,
 I guess the point is the LDR1 isn't going to make your system sound the way you want it to, unless the way you want it to sound is like it already did before you added the LDR1. The take away for me is the LDR1 just doesn't have a signature, or its signature is invisible, so it just lets everything else do what everything else is supposed to do.



Isn't that SUPPOSED to be the point of a passive pre?  Total transparency?  It's what many of us are and have been looking for.

gregfisk

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Re: LDRx Passive Preamp Tour
« Reply #47 on: 4 Nov 2013, 06:10 pm »
Isn't that SUPPOSED to be the point of a passive pre?  Total transparency?  It's what many of us are and have been looking for.

Randy,

I hope your response being the first isn't an indication how this review comes across, I meant my conclusion to be extremely positive. I have never heard an audio product of any kind that doesn't add something sound wise to the mix. This should make it easier, one less piece to the puzzle.

tortugaranger

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Re: LDRx Passive Preamp Tour
« Reply #48 on: 4 Nov 2013, 06:22 pm »
Isn't that SUPPOSED to be the point of a passive pre?  Total transparency?  It's what many of us are and have been looking for.

Yes indeed and  that was my takeaway from Greg's report as well. A bit tongue-in-cheek but the following cartoon tries to make the same point.  :lol:




tortugaranger

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Re: LDRx Passive Preamp Tour
« Reply #49 on: 4 Nov 2013, 06:27 pm »
Thank You Morten for making this possible, it was fun for me and informative.
Greg

Thanks for your report Greg and best wishes for a speedy recovery.

One thing you did reminded me of the first time I started working with an LDR volume control. Using a relatively low wattage amp I ran the LDR up to max volume and then flipped a bypass switch I'd rigged up. I couldn't tell the difference if the LDR was in the circuit or not. That's what I call uncolored transparency.

Cheers,
Morten

glynnw

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Re: LDRx Passive Preamp Tour
« Reply #50 on: 4 Nov 2013, 06:36 pm »
One of my first thoughts after getting the Tortuga LDR was that every preamp should use this kind of volume control.  As far as I know, currently only Dar T Zeel does.  I kept thinking that every stereo I had ever heard could have been better.

poseidonsvoice

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Re: LDRx Passive Preamp Tour
« Reply #51 on: 4 Nov 2013, 06:37 pm »
Greg,

Nice review. I may have missed it but did you replace your Joule with the LDR, while having the Butler amp powering your speakers, and do an audition with your 4 tracks of your choice? I am wondering what differences you may have heard between the Joule versus the LDR. 

Thanks,
Anand.

tortugaranger

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Re: LDRx Passive Preamp Tour
« Reply #52 on: 4 Nov 2013, 06:41 pm »
One of my first thoughts after getting the Tortuga LDR was that every preamp should use this kind of volume control.  As far as I know, currently only Dar T Zeel does.  I kept thinking that every stereo I had ever heard could have been better.

We are in various discussions regarding an OEM version of this board as replacement for conventional pots etc. in active preamps. Could get very interesting.

poseidonsvoice

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Re: LDRx Passive Preamp Tour
« Reply #53 on: 4 Nov 2013, 07:33 pm »
We are in various discussions regarding an OEM version of this board as replacement for conventional pots etc. in active preamps. Could get very interesting.

That's a great idea!  :thumb:

Best,
Anand.

gregfisk

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Re: LDRx Passive Preamp Tour
« Reply #54 on: 4 Nov 2013, 07:40 pm »
Greg,

Nice review. I may have missed it but did you replace your Joule with the LDR, while having the Butler amp powering your speakers, and do an audition with your 4 tracks of your choice? I am wondering what differences you may have heard between the Joule versus the LDR. 

Thanks,
Anand.

Anand,

I did go one step further with my testing by using both my TBI and my Butler amps in a bi amp configuration. This was the best that my system sounded both with the LDR1 and with my Joule. I had the same conclusion as my first impressions putting the LDR1 in place of my Joule, much smaller sound stage in depth and width and not as much meat on the bones or not as thick of a presentation. Detail was very good but I would need a tube amp, tube dac or tube buffer? to get back what was lost not having the Joule in the system. I hadn't gotten around to bi amping my system since I purchased the TBI amps and the system is definitely staying that way for now.

Take Care,

Greg

tortugaranger

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Re: LDRx Passive Preamp Tour
« Reply #55 on: 4 Nov 2013, 07:51 pm »
I had the same conclusion as my first impressions putting the LDR1 in place of my Joule, much smaller sound stage in depth and width and not as much meat on the bones or not as thick of a presentation. Detail was very good but I would need a tube amp, tube dac or tube buffer? to get back what was lost not having the Joule in the system.

I believe the HiZ software upgrade will definitely put the meat back on the bones.  Whether it will rival a $7k tube preamp is TBD. What would be even more interesting would be substituting an LDR3x for the existing attenuator in a high end tube (or SS) preamp like the Joule.
« Last Edit: 5 Nov 2013, 01:04 pm by tortugaranger »

poseidonsvoice

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Re: LDRx Passive Preamp Tour
« Reply #56 on: 4 Nov 2013, 09:30 pm »
I believe the HiZ software upgrade will definitely but the meat back on the bones.  Whether it will rival a $7k tube preamp is TBD. What would be even more interesting would be substituting an LDR3x for the existing attenuator in a high end tube (or SS) preamp like the Joule.

Yes. Which is why this tour is a very good thing. Without auditioning it in our own system, it's difficult to be sure as we all have different systems and preferences.

Thank you!

Best,
Anand.

gregfisk

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Re: LDRx Passive Preamp Tour
« Reply #57 on: 4 Nov 2013, 09:46 pm »
I believe the HiZ software upgrade will definitely but the meat back on the bones.  Whether it will rival a $7k tube preamp is TBD. What would be even more interesting would be substituting an LDR3x for the existing attenuator in a high end tube (or SS) preamp like the Joule.

I'm really sorry I didn't get the LDR1 with the new software, I get the feeling from your previous description it could make a big difference in what I heard.

I also like the idea of getting rid of what many feel is the weak link in a preamp, the volume control.

Greg

tortugaranger

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Re: LDRx Passive Preamp Tour
« Reply #58 on: 8 Nov 2013, 04:57 pm »
Hi Konut et. al.

I'm going to ship the HiZ chip to you today or tomorrow so you'll have it early next week. It will either be a 20k or a 50k input impedance chip. Still tweaking that.

Cheers,
Morten

konut

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Re: LDRx Passive Preamp Tour
« Reply #59 on: 8 Nov 2013, 05:05 pm »
Thanks for the heads up. Will be on the lookout.