[AJinFLA]

Some folks just love these speakers and I don't wish to offend anyone.  Could be the "overdriven at shows" phenomenon.  I am open to hearing them in a different context.

Understood. Yes, was expecting some blowback from the ATC fanclub on that one .
However, I made no comment on their sound whatsoever. That is a purely subjective realm.
I was dealing strictly with measured response first, so that we could then try to correlate to either good/bad sound experiences. I found measurements for both LS50 and similar driver compliment ATC, so the comparisons again, would have been in that realm only.
No intent to step on "subjective" toes.

cheers,

AJ

[sunnydaze]

I will take this offline with you.  Some folks just love these speakers and I don't wish to offend anyone.  Could be the "overdriven at shows" phenomenon.  I am open to hearing them in a different context.

-dB

I don't think there's anything wrong with giving your honest opinion.  That's what these boards are for.

If some insecure being gets offended by that,  I say "grow up, get a life"!     

[artur9]

Another for the list:  Vandersteen VLR.  Reviewed and compared with the LS50 at Tone Audio.

[tvyankee]

Hey.

If you think about going active you owe to yourself to hear the Neauman line. Lot of history there.  I work in the live world and a lot of trucks and studios  use these. On the passive front you really should hear the Evolution Acoustics micro ones.

Both of these speakers are in your price range and by my standards sound better then most.

[srb]

Neumann

[tvyankee]

Yes.  Sorry I spelled it wrong.  But yes they are great monitors. I have never been a huge jbl fan. I think they are good engineers but in my opinion only their high dollar stuff sounds good. I work in the industry and have to say I don't really see there stuff anywhere. Their new high dollar pa gear sounds very good and I think that's where the real money is for them.

[dburna]

Hey.

If you think about going active you owe to yourself to hear the Neauman line. Lot of history there.  I work in the live world and a lot of trucks and studios  use these.

Neumann

Yup and yup.  In fact, I own a pair of Neumann KH120A's in our basement A/V room.  Never tried them in the big rig.....probably because I am scared I would never take them out again.   

-dB

[sunnydaze]

Yup and yup.  In fact, I own a pair of Neumann KH120A's in our basement A/V room.  Never tried them in the big rig.....probably because I am scared I would never take them out again.   

-dB

Wouldn't that be a good thing?   

Seems to meet your goals:  downsize, simplify, reduce clutter.  Added bonus -- sell the Hornings, put a ton of green in the bank and still have great sound!       

[dburna]

Wouldn't that be a good thing?   

Seems to meet your goals:  downsize, simplify, reduce clutter.  Added bonus -- sell the Hornings, put a ton of green in the bank and still have great sound!       

Yes, it would be an ideal way to take money out of my system and put it into savings......except, as much as I like the KH120's, they are emphatically NOT as good as the Hornings.  The Hornings are sublime -- best audio investment I ever made, hands down.  I listen to the newer versions at audio shows (and when I go to NY), and they are definitely better, but not enough that I think of changing out mine.  Even if I did sub in the KH120's, I'd still need a replacement for the downstairs A/V system.  In short, I am considering options to replace the Hornings some day.....but I'm not happy about it.   

-dB

[sunnydaze]

Given your size requirements and budget, I very strongly suspect you will be unable to match SQ of your Hornings.  So if that is your goal, I believe you will fail.  Sorry.

You'll probably need to adjust your expectations, but I do believe you can come close....or at least get something that is musically satisfying.  If it were me:

(1)  I'd get a super musical and attractive standmount or small floorstander  (to meet budget and aesthetic requirements)

(2)  high pass them to remove the LF and make them even better, top to bottom.  The improvement is significant such that it sounds like you significantly upgraded your mains.

(3)  add a sub (or two) and blend it in at roughly your high pass point.

Doesn't have to be expensive.   For example,  I use Gallo CL-10 sub.  Underwood Wally was closing them out over the summer at $450, which means they will start appearing used at $300 or so, maybe less.  Nice thing about this sub is it has a High Pass filter built into it, no need to add another piece of gear.   IMO, it's a VG sub -- fast, articulate, musical.  I find it very easy to blend in all the situations I've tried it in.  The 12 incher should be even better.

Running my Omegas and Reynauds this way sounds VG indeed.  I know two other guys that do the same with their Gallo subs and Omega speakers (Super 3 XRS and Super Alnico Monitors), and love it.  Much better than running mains full range, and supplementing bottom with sub.

Just a thought.   I know the sub will add a little clutter, but it can usually be discretely placed.

[sunnydaze]

Hey dburna -- get these!

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/monitors-jm-reynaud-bliss-silver-speakers-magic-stands-2017-05-11-speakers-11727-coram-ny

Right in my backyard....If you don't I might!     

Musical speaker that hits all points on your checklist.  Add a nice sub, you are still way under budget.

[roscoe65]

Given your size requirements and budget, I very strongly suspect you will be unable to match SQ of your Hornings.  So if that is your goal, I believe you will fail.  Sorry.

You'll probably need to adjust your expectations, but I do believe you can come close....or at least get something that is musically satisfying.  If it were me:

(1)  I'd get a super musical and attractive standmount or small floorstander  (to meet budget and aesthetic requirements)

(2)  high pass them to remove the LF and make them even better, top to bottom.  The improvement is significant such that it sounds like you significantly upgraded your mains.

(3)  add a sub (or two) and blend it in at roughly your high pass point.

Doesn't have to be expensive.   For example,  I use Gallo CL-10 sub.  Underwood Wally was closing them out over the summer at $450, which means they will start appearing used at $300 or so, maybe less.  Nice thing about this sub is it has a High Pass filter built into it, no need to add another piece of gear.   IMO, it's a VG sub -- fast, articulate, musical.  I find it very easy to blend in all the situations I've tried it in.  The 12 incher should be even better.

Running my Omegas and Reynauds this way sounds VG indeed.  I know two other guys that do the same with their Gallo subs and Omega speakers (Super 3 XRS and Super Alnico Monitors), and love it.  Much better than running mains full range, and supplementing bottom with sub.

Just a thought.   I know the sub will add a little clutter, but it can usually be discretely placed.

I agree with this approach.  I employ a similar (maybe superior?) approach in one of my systems:  I have a pair of Omega Super Alnico Monitors (11" x 14" x 20") sitting on top of a pair of Rhythmik F8 Low Inertia subwoofers (2 x 8" servo, 11" x 15.5" x 20").  The Rhythmik subs can cross over as high as 200hz, which mates perfectly with the Omega's.  Each "speaker" is 11" x 15" x 40" and can be moved more easily than a floorstander.  I bought everything secondhand so my price was $2,500 total.

[sunnydaze]

Sold already.  Knew it was a great deal.   Second time I've missed the Bliss at a great price.   

[dburna]

Sold already.  Knew it was a great deal.   Second time I've missed the Bliss at a great price.   

I was going to suggest that you buy these ASAP.....so that when GAS hit in a couple years you could sell them to me for even less.     Honestly, I would be severely tempted by these, but I think it's a little too early for my long-term search.

Sunnydaze, I am giving serious consideration to hiring you as my audio consigiliere.     It sounds like you have very similar tastes and preferences, a good ear, and a keen eye on the used marketplace (never a bad thing, IMO).  Your earlier message about getting standmounts and a sub (or a similar FR active monitor) is exactly where I will go if I can't make it work with the Hornings.  Given I like them so much, I am going to do everything I can to keep them.  Am looking at some changes to reduce the box headcount so I only need perhaps a low two-level stand.  Once I get rid of the big honkin' audio rack, I can move the Hornings closer to the wall to lessen the space they take up (the US distributor tells me that I can do this with only slight sonic compromise).  If this doesn't increase WAF-friendliness enough, then it's on to the monitor sub solution. 

I have a Martin Logan sealed/servo sub in the A/V system.  It's pretty fast, I think, because it was designed to keep up with the ML 'stats.  I just have to look to see if it has bypass capability so I can relieve any monitors of LF responsibilities.  If so, I am most of the way there.

-dB 

[sunnydaze]

.......I have a Martin Logan sealed/servo sub in the A/V system.  It's pretty fast, I think, because it was designed to keep up with the ML 'stats.  I just have to look to see if it has bypass capability so I can relieve any monitors of LF responsibilities.  If so, I am most of the way there.

-dB

If it doesn't you can use Harrison filters.  My buddy uses them to high-pass his Omega Super Alnico Monitors.

See this thread for a detailed discussion (start at Reply #18):

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=147003.0

[roscoe65]

That's good to hear Sunnydaze.  I should try that with my own SAM's.

[dburna]

Been doing mostly online research right now.  In my price range (or slightly above) for active monitors, the two that stand out to me are the JBL LSR708 and the Neumann KH310A.  I definitely want to explore these before committing to a more traditional (amp + passive speakers) route.  From a price standpoint, the active system will likely be a cheaper option for me, because if I went "traditional," I'd probably opt for a Pass integrated + monitors.  The Pass alone (even used) is about the same price as the active speakers.

But here's the thing that gives me pause w.r.t. active designs: volume control.  I have a single-ended Tortuga Audio LDR (which is great!), but if a network streamer->DAC is going to drive active speakers over a 10ft. cable, I have a concern about going with single-ended.  Honestly, I don't know the (practical) limits of running a single-ended cable, but I thought in general it is 1-2m or so.  Otherwise, I'm going to have to find a DAC/streamer with volume control, which limits options because I'd like to stay with a NOS/R2R DAC.  Not inclined to put big, big dollars into a DAC because of the relentless improvement in DAC technology.

And, of course, there's the amplification thing.  I don't imagine that either the built-in KH Class AB amps or the JBL Class D amps are going to sound as good as a Pass Class A amp.  As far as this goes, I imagine it's a trade-off between amp quality vs. the advantages that an active design brings to optimize the use of each amp.

Any thoughts on either a musical DAC with a (non-sucktacular) volume control or a great volume control that can drive long-ish distances?  It seems like a change to active monitors may entail changing my front end as well, so this is not a small step for me.  I want to make sure I have done the homework necessary to "get it right" (at least substantially) out-of-the-gate.

-dB

[Folsom]

There's nothing wrong with a 10ft single ended cable. Besides most audiophile gear that uses XLR connectors is single ended anyways, and/or not designed at all so the shield does anything.

My problem with active speakers is trying to find an amp good enough in them. I think it would be hard to beat a Pass amp.

[OzarkTom]

If I were to buy today, I would buy the Omega 3 HO Monitors with the DAC SMT integrated. This will beat any active under 6K today. Total retail is 2500. Add the 36v power supply to the SMT to get it up to 3K.

[JLM]

DAC with volume control = DAC/preamp

Check out audiostream.com for a good listing of DAC/preamps.  Mytek Brooklyn or Benchmark DAC3 HGC come to mind at around $2000 usd.  Both are compact, solid performers and have XLR outputs, headphone outputs, and remote.  If you want to save money you could pick up a DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core for $900 usd (street price) that adds DSP (XLR inputs/outputs but no headphone amp).  Or to really save look at the Emotiva DC-1 for $500 that also has XLR outputs, headphone outputs, and remote.  Note that I've owned the DC-1 and upgraded to the DSPeaker.

Of course this would be another consolidation of components and add to any concern over putting multiple eggs in one basket, but boy you'd be down to a very simple system. 

Keep in mind that XLR cables are self shielded by design, so long runs is not an issue and that they are all but immune to the crazy audiophile boutique cable claims/prices.  I just extravagently spent $138 usd for a pair of well regarded 10ft Best-Tronic XLR cables to connect to my active monitors to replace my $20/pair 15ft Monoprice XLR cables, just to sleep better at night I guess.