What to do with a room like this.... ????

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jriggy

What to do with a room like this.... ????
« on: 19 Mar 2017, 03:52 pm »
Here are some pics of a house we are considering... All rooms have their own issues that need addressed...What problems would a room such as this have? how would you treat it AND can it be 'tamed' enough to have an intimate sound. Also can it have a talking/conversation feel of a more intimate space?







(strange how the upload took all the warm tones out of the pics. interesting)

So I was wondering if two 2'x4' panels per section on the slopped ceiling, a few 2'x2' panels across the upper wall section above the three lit wall cubby-holes, then one big custom panel above fireplace where the painting is, and maybe, if I had too, something on the wood wall... Would this make for an intimate sound or does a space like this always sound big and cavernous no matter what you do to it???

I would be most interested to put system and speakers set-up on the wood wall, where you see the current owners audio --but of course with proper speaker placement...

Thanks

bacobits1

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Re: What to do with a room like this.... ????
« Reply #1 on: 19 Mar 2017, 04:03 pm »
Use Cans?
Nice but not so much for audio.
Pad it down and you will not pass the WAF for sure.

jriggy

Re: What to do with a room like this.... ????
« Reply #2 on: 19 Mar 2017, 04:15 pm »
Are you saying I would need more than mentioned? WAF is pretty good. She likes Audio too and knows of my 'sensitivities.'

Detailed thoughts and suggestion for what would make this room 'fine' or 'good' are appreciated.

jriggy

Re: What to do with a room like this.... ????
« Reply #3 on: 19 Mar 2017, 04:17 pm »
BTW, it's about 20' wide and maybe 21 or 22 to the fireplace, then open around and behind fireplace for another 12' or so...

bacobits1

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Re: What to do with a room like this.... ????
« Reply #4 on: 19 Mar 2017, 04:22 pm »
You would probably have to do something as you described.
Nice place.
Good luck, let us know how you make out.

Mag

Re: What to do with a room like this.... ????
« Reply #5 on: 19 Mar 2017, 04:41 pm »
I have an unproven unconventional experimental idea that I believe would work in a room like that. But it would require you have Bryston Model T speakers as I don't know if the idea would work with another speaker.

Let me know if interested and I will try to explain without a using a diagram though a diagram would make it easier.

jriggy

Re: What to do with a room like this.... ????
« Reply #6 on: 19 Mar 2017, 05:42 pm »
I don't know much about those speakers, so cant answer offhand if I would use them or not. But I am definately curious now! And I do like graphs...

TomS

Re: What to do with a room like this.... ????
« Reply #7 on: 19 Mar 2017, 06:08 pm »
Very nice room, but very do-able for audio with the right treatments. It doesn't have to be too intrusive. First thing I would do is call up GIK for a chat. It's a great opportunity to mix your audio with some art ;-)

Mag

Re: What to do with a room like this.... ????
« Reply #8 on: 19 Mar 2017, 06:34 pm »
I don't know much about those speakers, so cant answer offhand if I would use them or not. But I am definately curious now! And I do like graphs...

Okay, I use the idea in my room. You would just be expanding it to your large room.

You would place the speakers at the current wall where you have the speakers located already 12' feet apart but you could also try 15' feet. Now here's the catch, you need to place two unsightly reflective panels,( I suggest 4' x 8' vertical, concrete or solid MDF board, different surfaces reflect differently, my walls are concrete) horizontal approximately 10' in front of the speakers for the sound to reflect off. Aim the speaker towards the center of these panels. Just by changing the tow in of the speakers an inch or so, you can move the stereo image left or right to center it. The image should then project off the wall into the room. The sound should seem like it's coming off the wall and not the speakers.

You wouldn't have to change anything else in the room, just these unsightly reflective panels.

Carl V

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Re: What to do with a room like this.... ????
« Reply #9 on: 19 Mar 2017, 06:54 pm »
Consider hiring a professional wall treatment person, have WAF fabric chosen,
then sewn for minimal seems, apply the numerous 1" - 2" Absorption products with
strategically placed 'scatter plates' furring strips, then stretch that Lovely fabric
over the acoustic treatments. Apply cording at all junctions to hide any seam.
This is done all the time in custom HT installs, etc.,


I did this on a Cavernous 'A' frame house interior many moons ago. Best darned
room for audio I ever have had.

That being said. An acquaintance has a killer MBL system set up in a very similar
interior. Mid-century Modern....WOW!


Good Luck

FullRangeMan

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Re: What to do with a room like this.... ????
« Reply #10 on: 19 Mar 2017, 07:01 pm »


Great room congratulations.
I would made a smaller room in this corner, if possible Golden Trapagon or similar:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=107352.msg1183456#msg1183456

mcgsxr

Re: What to do with a room like this.... ????
« Reply #11 on: 20 Mar 2017, 10:38 am »
Love the mid century modern vibe there.  That's awesome.

Some good suggestions so far. 

JLM

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Re: What to do with a room like this.... ????
« Reply #12 on: 20 Mar 2017, 12:10 pm »
Love the look, but seems squarish with lots of highly reflective surfaces. 

I loaned my six GIK 244 panels to a local BBQ place that has horrendous echo issues (larger, but similar shape/materials) and they did an amazing job.  Owner was impressed enough to order (23) burgundy 242 panels, most of which floated horizontally down from the ceiling (would not my aesthetic choice).  If you read through their site and circle on Audio Circle you'll find an amazing variety of tasteful options.

I'd also get some treatments (perhaps heavy curtains) on all those windows.  Assuming the view is wonderful, wonder why the current furniture layout has most of the seating facing away from it.

I'd take treatments one step at a time, until you achieve the balance you want between looks and sounds.

jriggy

Re: What to do with a room like this.... ????
« Reply #13 on: 20 Mar 2017, 03:39 pm »
Thanks for the replies!

So far only one "no" if this room can be made to sound pleasing...

The space is actually not that bad. it doesn't have to bad of a clap echo but thats all I know. Hopefully we will have a second look at the place this week but good to know how much 'covering' it would take in here before committing, as its really the only doable space for audio besides the walkout rec room for TV/HT duties...

TomS,
 Hi there Tom! I returned your email this weekend... And yes, I would love to call GIK o this one. Getting it treated properly and as unobtrusive as possible, would be very important.

Carl V,
 the only wall that would be able to do your idea is the front wall / wood wall. That would be a shame to convert that wall to fabric.

JLM,
 Yes the room is very close to square but due to the open and avoiding rooms and spaces I do not feel this space would be troubled by the affects of a square room. Thats just in the bass anyway. If anything it would be a lack of bass, as opposed to boomy peaks.
I do like the idea of heavy curtains for some listening.

Any other detailed thoughts or issues here??

As mentioned, an intimate sound and not to lively is my preference but  I can adjust that if it sounds good.  :scratch:

rodge827

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Re: What to do with a room like this.... ????
« Reply #14 on: 20 Mar 2017, 04:04 pm »
For the windows try and do some sort of cellular shade. I just did a job in a home that had Hunter Douglas remote retractable shades that were powered by a battery pack hidden on the top. Many of the sound acoustic companies offer custom art panels, or you can also make your own custom panels with favorite pictures printed on them. Large area rugs help as does cushy furniture. Look into tapestries for the walls which can also be custom made with favorite pics or art work. Hang custom rugs or quilts. Search Etsy for some ideas https://www.etsy.com/search?ref=auto2&as_prefix=custom+tap&q=custom+tapestry&order=most_relevant&view_type=gallery&ship_to=US

Depending on the speakers your bass issues shouldn't be too much of a problem but scattered high frequencies will need to be tamed.

FWIW I work in the interior design field as a pro paperhanger and see a lot of cool stuff people do. There are acoustic wall-coverings but lend themselves to commercial applications, ie office cubicles, conference room, etc...

Have fun with this project  :D  you have already cleared one hurdle with a cooperative spouse.  8)

Best,

Chris

youngho

Re: What to do with a room like this.... ????
« Reply #15 on: 20 Mar 2017, 04:49 pm »
Asymmetry of early reflections, in this case ceiling, is potentially detrimental, may be better off rotating speakers/listener setup by 90 degrees (speakers in front of window likely to be better because of the apparent angle of the ceiling, so that stronger off-axis vertical response is reflected behind the listening position, as long as the wall opposite the windows/door is well-damped). Could start with double- or triple-cellular shades on that window wall, then add heavy curtains later if needed. Controlled directivity speakers are another possibility. On the other hand, Floyd Toole was happy with an asymmetric setup in his own listening room (http://www.soundandvision.com/content/advice-audio-insider).

Besides fabric products, you could consider microperforated wood panels like from Soundply (www.soundply.com), which seem to perform comparably to conventional absorption but in less depth. I went to a bat mitzvah at Temple Beth Elohim, which used a similar product called Makustic from Akustic & Raum that seemed to perform very well and was extremely unobstrusive in a visual sense.  This would allow you to continue the wood panel aesthetic almost seamlessly on some of the other walls as desired. Besides microperforated panels, grooved products like Dado from RPG (http://www.rpginc.com/wood.cfm) or DHA/DHA from Real Acoustix (http://www.realacoustixllc.com/products/) could look very nice installed on the angled ceiling. These grooved products or else tuned absorption like RPG's BAD/Expo products, Real Acoustix's FAST panels, and the Alpha 2D diffusion products also have the advantage of avoiding too much high frequency absorption.

Bob2

Re: What to do with a room like this.... ????
« Reply #16 on: 20 Mar 2017, 05:47 pm »
Some acoustic panels like what was used on the "Tonight Show" could work.
Nice place by the way.

Don't forget a matching pair of Eames for you and your better half..

Rocket_Ronny

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Re: What to do with a room like this.... ????
« Reply #17 on: 20 Mar 2017, 05:51 pm »
Lucky you. Great room to work with. You need to seriously try something like this, or in your case I would also try the system along the other wall. Just tell your honey it's for the love of music.







Hey! Who's that character?




Get them away from the wall at least 6 feet, 12 feet is even way better to delay reflections from smearing the imaging. Make up bass loss with a sub and e.q.

Rocket Ronny

Hipper

Re: What to do with a room like this.... ????
« Reply #18 on: 20 Mar 2017, 07:48 pm »
That's a nice size room with good potential.

The issues are:

+the sloping ceiling
+the large windows
+perhaps the asymmetry on the wall opposite where the speakers currently are

The solution to the sloping ceiling is, as youngho suggests, to place the speakers along the window (higher)wall. You will need some sort of absorbers or diffusors behind the speakers and maybe behind you chair to prevent reflections. Gear could be on one of the side walls with either long speaker cables or long balanced cables to mono blocks or amp located by the speakers.

To realise the full potential of the room I would suggest (if you can) having the speakers and listening chair well into the room, perhaps following 'The Thirds' set up:

http://www.barrydiamentaudio.com/monitoring.htm

The only other factor, and really the most important one, is how the bass behaves. That is dependent on the room size and you can get some idea of the problems by using an online mode calculator:

http://amroc.andymel.eu/

Better still once your speakers are in position you can measure the problems with test tones and SPL meter, or for best accuracy, Room EQ Wizard (REW) and microphone.

Discuss the results with GIK or Realtraps to see what they suggest.



jriggy

Re: What to do with a room like this.... ????
« Reply #19 on: 20 Mar 2017, 11:31 pm »
Thanks some more peeps!

rodge827,
thanks for the window treatment recommendation AND the inventive design ideas of custom tapestries. I can see a custom tapestry over a large DIY panel over the fireplace, to save some funds for those nice motorized Hunter Douglas shades.

youngho,
Thanks for the product suggestions! the Soundply would be excellent in place of the wood veneer wall that's there now. But the stuff is 32 to 40$ a sq ft. It would be an 'invisible' treatment but I don't know if I could swing that much. its such a big wall and add in demo and install of the new project and thats a lot.

Rocket Ronny,
what speakers are those?

Hipper,
 You mention putting the speakers on the window wall/higher wall but the window wall is the shorter of those two adjacent walls. Which one are you proposing?


Ill measure the dimensions of the space when we see the property again and consider a possible shifting of the system. but I sure would rather do a system on the wood veneer wall. Better room flow that way but we'll see...

Its all theoretical right now anyway but glad to know most believe the space could be worked out to be good, if done right.