NAT symmetrical preamp

nickd · « **on:** 24 Dec 2016, 05:12 pm »

Checking A-Gon this morning and saw a NAT Symmetrical preamp listed for $3999.

Owned one of these a few years back and thought it was the best preamp I ever heard period. Runs hot (12 tubes I think) and it has a noisy relay ladder.

If you like tubes. This one should be heard. I have NO affiliation with seller.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #1 on:** 24 Dec 2016, 05:26 pm »

If you sold this preamp I also would sell it.
There is various power amps w/volume control as the Ming-Da's on the market of assembled tube amps.

nickd · « **Reply #2 on:** 24 Dec 2016, 05:54 pm »

Full range ,
I didn't sell mine years ago because I wanted to, or found something better. Just tough times and I had to liquidate.
Big preamps are not for everyone I understand. I currently use an integrated. But, there are a few people here chasing state of the art, and this piece is definitely that. At a time when ultra high end preamps cost $20-50k, four grand is a bargain hunters delight.

Tube power supply regulation and a tube output stage that will drive 600 ohms balanced. Rare beast indeed.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #3 on:** 25 Dec 2016, 12:36 pm »

Well this preamp reminders me the Bat also lots of tubes.

gareneau · « **Reply #4 on:** 2 Apr 2017, 02:13 pm »

Quote from: FullRangeMan on 25 Dec 2016, 12:36 pm

Well this preamp reminders me the Bat also lots of tubes.

Nickd,

Can you give me a sense of the sound from this preamp? Any criticisms you might make? Would it match well with SS amps such as Krell?

Thanks -

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #5 on:** 2 Apr 2017, 03:11 pm »

Quote from: gareneau on 2 Apr 2017, 02:13 pm

Nickd,

Can you give me a sense of the sound from this preamp? Any criticisms you might make? Would it match well with SS amps such as Krell?

Thanks -

Iam not a tech, but this preamp looks a BAT copy, no hard wiring/all PCB, lots of parts, I dont know the Krell input impedance though.
I sure there is anything more simpler and minimalist that will offer better sound at lower price.

nickd · « **Reply #6 on:** 2 Apr 2017, 04:12 pm »

The NAT does share some things with the BAT designs. They are both two channel and use one power transformer per Chanel. They also use resistor ladders for volume control. Other than that it's an apples to oranges compareson.

The NAT sounds extremely transparent and "open". I don't know if it's the tube complement or tube voltage regulation. It sounds a bit like an extremely hot rodded AR SP3A I had a few years ago. There is just a natural presentation and tone you don't get with a lot of modern gear. It sounds more "analog" than most. But there is no noise. The NAT also offers quiet backgrounds and really lifelike dynamics.

I have not heard a cheap preamp that could get close to this level of refinement.

Down sides: heat, noisy relays in the volume control and of course the price if you buy new.

For disclosure. I currently use a Lyngdorf TDAI 170 integrated amp and restored Altec model 14 loudspeakers and a powered custom built 18" transmission line sub woofer. Sources: PBN groove tracer table and liberty phono preamp. Digital feed is from a Sonos connect.

I spent years chasing the ultimate sound, but have grand kids now and needed more room for playing on the floor in my theater. My "downsize" allowed both to take place. The sound is really amazing and the front of my room is open for play with the kids. I have lots of really nice gear I don't use anymore.

I still wish I never sold the NAT. It is special.

gareneau · « **Reply #7 on:** 2 Apr 2017, 08:00 pm »

Thanks, nickd. I got interested in this preamp from a thread on the WBF. Per below, does this poster's description of the sound resonate with you? (The poster is referring to his amps but it applies to NAT's preamp sound as well.)

Back to the Nats. Despite the steep learning curve I'm having, they do something that I only hear in pricier gear like the $25k Koda K10 preamp, $15k Connoisseur line stage and $100k+ Ypsilon SET100 monos. And that is total tonal saturation thru the mids into the bass which doesn't cross into euphonic cloying warmth, so bridges the gap to how instruments and voices sound live, making the listening experience more like the real thing, more immersive, and I believe has a positive effect on subconscious awareness of timing cues.

Much as I loved my Hovlands and Audions, I got nowhere near this expression of colour and density w/them. A total triumph, and at price levels 3-5x cheaper than SOTA offerings which I find hard to believe are vastly superior (I had a long stint w/the $25k Koda and wouldn't swap the Nats for it), it's a brand that a lot more discerning listeners here should seriously consider.

The Audion Black Shadows, seductive as they are, just can't compete with the Nats' tonal richness that just makes the mids so alive and colourful. And critically, unlike a lot of tonally warm tube amps like BAT that are full in the mids but wooly and smeared in the bass, there is no compromise in the lower frequencies. No gauziness at all. Like the best of a glass of full bodied red wine, and the crispness of a glass of white. Audion is pretty good w/tonal color, but the density/speed balance of the Nats just races away.

What is interesting is that the Nats dark balance that I was unsure about two years ago I have interpreted as a real culture shock change from sparse, skeletal Hovland house sound to a dense technicolor presentation that I was just not ready for, and rejected as too alien. But the stepping stone of Audions to the Nats is a better transition, and now this tone dense sound I can't get enough of.