Speakers for NuPrime IDA-16?

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maty

Re: Speakers for NuPrime IDA-16?
« Reply #20 on: 9 Feb 2016, 10:08 am »

JLM

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Re: Speakers for NuPrime IDA-16?
« Reply #21 on: 9 Feb 2016, 01:43 pm »
007,

Yes, the Def Tech house sound is more oriented towards home theater use.  The Mythos 4 are really a very complicated based on their performance (3-way, 5 drivers, plus 2 passive radiators).  I prefer simpler designs that use better and far fewer components.

It seems like you're after a more mature sound now.  Low/mid volume and smoothness align nicely with capturing the tonal qualities of voice and instruments does.  Dynamics can be microphonic (small) or microphonic (large) instantaneous volume swings, so on a smaller scale dynamics can be worked into the mix. 

I enjoy a rich sound too.  Unfortunately the general trend in audio has been towards a more spritely, tight sound (like the IDA-16).  Going with a larger bass/midrange driver (15 - 20 cm diameter) helps produce a full mid-bass presentation to achieve a full bodied sound.  I hesitate to use the word "warm" because many associate it with colored, slow, thick, and dull sound.  Many of today's tweeters (ribbons, metal domes) seem to be oriented towards satisfying older ears (that struggle to hear higher frequencies) and make for a less rich sound.

If you are satisfied with how loud your old system was (with the KEF subwoofer), I'd recommend investing your budget into a quality pair of stand-mounted 2-way monitors (versus fancy cabinetry).  Speakers like the Philharmonitors that Michael listed, Ascend Acoustics Serra, Fritz monitors, and LSA-1 (look up Underwoodhifi.com) should be on your short list (if you don't have children/pets that can knock them over).

Many companies, like Salk (their sound is largely after the Def Tech genre) or Sonus Faber (they have a richer more musical sound), emphasize the expensive cabinetry.  Is that what you want to pay for? 

But as always audition at home.  You are the only expert who matters when it comes to your system in your room.

The IDA-16 is a very fine piece, I recommend you match it to a very good speaker.

007

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Re: Speakers for NuPrime IDA-16?
« Reply #22 on: 10 Feb 2016, 12:27 pm »
I am checking out this speakers (used) About $1500. Must also check With my wife if she approves the look

http://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php/component/content/article?id=208:amphion

I also checking this one (used) About $800

http://www.cnet.com/news/kudos-audios-apartment-friendly-tiny-towers/
« Last Edit: 10 Feb 2016, 01:54 pm by 007 »

maty

Argon 3L may be too small in the big living rooms of over 25-30 m2
« Reply #23 on: 10 Feb 2016, 05:10 pm »
Amphion Argon3L

Measures

-> http://www.i-fidelity.net/testberichte/high-end/amphion-argon3-l/laborbericht-seite-5-amphion-argon3-l.html?type=97

->  http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/amphion_argon3/

Danish review -> http://www.hifi4all.dk/content/templates/anmeldelser.asp?articleid=2174&zoneid=3

To English -> https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&depth=1&hl=es&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=da&tl=en&u=http://www.hifi4all.dk/content/templates/anmeldelser.asp%3Farticleid%3D2174%26zoneid%3D3&usg=ALkJrhgbmTiXEeK6fXf3E_ZZd8MK1QXYcQ

Quote
But ... Argon 3L is an amazing experience, but it may not be for everyone. Firstly there is the size where Argon 3L may be too small in the big living rooms of over 25-30 m2. There is, after all, a limit to how many physical laws to exceed at once. Second, Argon 3L a very direct "in your face" shape, which some might not care about. I must stress that they are not bright, sharp or angular, but the lower midrange is slightly highlighted. This means that they serve things raw and unsweetened, and you will also closer to the performers than you might like. In return they offer an extremely dynamic, realistic holographic experience that many other more expensive alternatives will look enviously for a long time...

JLM

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Re: Speakers for NuPrime IDA-16?
« Reply #24 on: 11 Feb 2016, 01:28 pm »
Why are you picking floor-standing speakers when you already have a subwoofer?  Do you have pets/children to worry about?

Amphion are good speakers, but very modern (dry, tight) which would almost perfected compound the sound of the IDA-16 which as I understand is exactly what you didn't want.  Search for "BBC clones".  (Classic BBC monitors had a mellow/musical sound that many enjoyed.)

The 31 inch height of the Kudos Audio X2 would give me pause.  Really short floor-standing speakers like these can easily "get lost" behind the arms of chairs/couches, meaning that the direct sound can get easily blocked.  These (or stand-mounted speakers) would allow for greater view if the speakers need to go in front of a large window.   

How is this room furnished (lots of hard surfaces, ceiling height, overstuffed furniture, heavy curtains, etc.)?  Is it open to other spaces?

007

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Re: Speakers for NuPrime IDA-16?
« Reply #25 on: 11 Feb 2016, 03:55 pm »
Thank you for your comments.

My plan is to get a speaker so i don't have too use the sub. It is a small sub from an old KEF 1005 surround set and i want to sell it. Is it so you recommend small speakers with a sub. Is that better then floor standing speaker?

If I understand you correct you don't think my IDA-16 and Amphion Aragon 3L speakers is a good match. What is your opinion about KEF Q500/700 or KEF R500? (I am checking for used speakers or a good deal from a store)

My living room is a normal livingroom with furniture, curtins, chairs, pictures on the wall and couch

I have pets, two guineapigs they are no problems  :)

JackD

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Re: Speakers for NuPrime IDA-16?
« Reply #26 on: 11 Feb 2016, 04:07 pm »
I think his point, verified by two owner friends, is that the amp in the 16 is on the "cool" side of neutral, unless you like that sort of sound you should look for speakers of European origin that are on the warmer side.  There are an abundance of Euro speaker makers which would be much cheaper for you.  You should concentrate on the review sites that specialize in reviewing gear from your side of the pond.  Among those What HiFi, HiFi+, 6 Moons, etc.  See if you can contact some of the reviewers like Srajen and see if you can get their opinions.  Other than the "BBC" voiced brands the first one you would think of would be SF.

007

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Re: Speakers for NuPrime IDA-16?
« Reply #27 on: 11 Feb 2016, 04:24 pm »
I think his point, verified by two owner friends, is that the amp in the 16 is on the "cool" side of neutral, unless you like that sort of sound you should look for speakers of European origin that are on the warmer side.  There are an abundance of Euro speaker makers which would be much cheaper for you.  You should concentrate on the review sites that specialize in reviewing gear from your side of the pond.  Among those What HiFi, HiFi+, 6 Moons, etc.  See if you can contact some of the reviewers like Srajen and see if you can get their opinions.  Other than the "BBC" voiced brands the first one you would think of would be SF.

Ok, I will go back to my side of the pond for futher advise. Thank you for your help.

JackD

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Re: Speakers for NuPrime IDA-16?
« Reply #28 on: 11 Feb 2016, 04:48 pm »
Didn't say "go back to your side of the pond", I said concentrate on brands and reviews from there which will be more prevalent due to transportation costs and advertising revenue.  Many smaller yet excellent European brands never get reviewed or heard hear due to the shipping and currency exchange. Even the "bigger" brands like Proac, PMC and others suffer here because of it.  Hard for some of us to have an opinion on brands we will never get to hear unless we live in select cities like NY and LA.

007

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Re: Speakers for NuPrime IDA-16?
« Reply #29 on: 11 Feb 2016, 05:28 pm »
Didn't say "go back to your side of the pond", I said concentrate on brands and reviews from there which will be more prevalent due to transportation costs and advertising revenue.  Many smaller yet excellent European brands never get reviewed or heard hear due to the shipping and currency exchange. Even the "bigger" brands like Proac, PMC and others suffer here because of it.  Hard for some of us to have an opinion on brands we will never get to hear unless we live in select cities like NY and LA.

 :thumb: (my mistake). I'm allready checking and googling but i found very little about which speakers owners of IDA-16 use. When I travel to Oslo I can listen to a lot of speakers but not in combination with a IDA-16. That's way I check in different forum to see what other use. Little luck so far  :scratch:

John Casler

Re: Speakers for NuPrime IDA-16?
« Reply #30 on: 11 Feb 2016, 05:37 pm »
As a NuPRIME Dealer, I have seen a lot of Speaker pairings with the IDA-16.

I don't recall anyone saying they didn't like their choices.

Some I recall are:

Sonus Faber
Nola
Revel
Golden Ear
Magnepan
PSB
B&W
Def Tech
KEF
JBL
Legacy
Pioneer
Swan
BG


And being a dealer for VMPS and now ELAC I can say these also are excellent.

JLM

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Re: Speakers for NuPrime IDA-16?
« Reply #31 on: 11 Feb 2016, 05:41 pm »
Correct, the IDA-16 and Aphion have similar sounds and would compound their dry/tight sound.

I prefer stand-mounts (mains) with subwoofer versus floor-standers, because:

1.) The way bass propagates in a room is different than higher frequencies, so ideal placement of bass sources and mid/high frequency sources are different;
2.) Volume and phase of bass can be easily adjusted with a subwoofer;
3.) The subwoofer capacity can be sized for the room;
4.) With separate mains you can replace them or the sub as desired.

A good option with the IDA-16 would be the Gini LS-3/5A ($630 BBC LS-3/5A clone) with it's matching B+ ($690 bass stands).  I heard them years ago at a small audio show and were one of only 3 speakers I liked there.  The sound is inviting, not harsh and the value is outstanding.  The bass (transmission line) integrated very well with the mains and into the room.  Overall a rather small speaker.  Go to underwoodhifi.com for more information.

Have you considered Sjofn HiFi Clue speakers ($1000, stand-mount but no subwoofer needed)?  Personally I haven't been impressed with KEF (although I wanted to be). 

If you can't home audition, why not bring the IDA-16 with you to Oslo?

JackD

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Re: Speakers for NuPrime IDA-16?
« Reply #32 on: 11 Feb 2016, 06:36 pm »
Agree, it's certainly small and light enough for easy transport.  Of John's list the Nola would be a good match for the 16 if you can find a used pair of Contenders. PSB might work to if you can find them, but to my ear's all of the others would be to forward in this situation.  The Golden Ears are a great match with the 8, don't know about the 16.  Other brands more available in Europe that would match would be Reynaud, Dynaudio and Apertura.
« Last Edit: 11 Feb 2016, 10:32 pm by JackD »

007

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Re: Speakers for NuPrime IDA-16?
« Reply #33 on: 15 Feb 2016, 08:12 am »
I have been getting an offer for this speakers - Monitor Audio PL100 - asking price about $1350.

http://www.whathifi.com/monitor-audio/pl100/review

I have also got an offer for Tannoy Revolution DC6T - asking price about $700

Maybe I will decide what to do soon. One option is to still use my Def Tech and buy a new sub.

Thank you for Your help.

maty

Re: Speakers for NuPrime IDA-16?
« Reply #34 on: 15 Feb 2016, 08:50 am »
-> http://www.soundandvision.com/content/monitor-audio-platinum-pl300-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures


Quote
This graph shows the quasi-anechoic (employing close-miking of all woofers) frequency response of the PL300 L/R (purple trace), PLW-15 subwoofer (blue trace), PLC350 center channel (green trace), and PL100 surround (red trace). All passive loudspeakers were measured with grilles at a distance of 1 meter with a 2.83-volt input and scaled for display purposes...

I do not like the graph (to listen music) but I am not you.


JLM

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Re: Speakers for NuPrime IDA-16?
« Reply #35 on: 15 Feb 2016, 01:06 pm »
Not all models from European manufacturer's make it across the pond (to the U.S.), for instance we don't know what Mercedes A or B series car are.  Same with Tannoy.  We know them (barely) for their classic high-end speakers (which I like) and their cheap active studio monitors (which are better than average), but not so much for their middle of the road speakers like the Revolution DC-6T.  Until you've read enough reviews to "know the reviewer" (by comparing what he thinks of several speakers you know), it's nearly impossible to know what you'd think of the speakers.

Monitor Audio recently has gotten professional reviewers to praise them bit more, but my impression has never been more than ordinary stuff.  I could be wrong, yet the review you linked only offers faint praise.  I'd be leery of ribbon tweeters with the IDA-16, as they tend to dominate the sound of (show off in) whatever speaker they're in and could again compound the spritely sound of the IDA-16.  (And frankly I don't understand how a particular set of stands can have a "massive impact" on the sound, so I'm ready to throw that review out the window.) 

Before going any farther in speaker research you need to: 1.) Set you budget much higher - closer to $4000 - the IDA-16 deserves it; 2.) Listen for yourself (and take the IDA-16 with you).

007

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Re: Speakers for NuPrime IDA-16?
« Reply #36 on: 15 Feb 2016, 02:31 pm »
Thank you again  :thumb: maybe I have to raise my Budget. Two of the speakers i have mations have a cost i Norway Amphion ($3400) and Monitor Audio (New modell $5000, the old PL100 was listed to $3400).

I hope I can get a used speaker. So I'm still looking.

JLM

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Re: Speakers for NuPrime IDA-16?
« Reply #37 on: 15 Feb 2016, 02:58 pm »
Oops, I see the cost of the Monitor Audio PL100 now. 

Again listen before you buy, and don't get hung up in tons of reviews or jumping at "deals".  Better to make the right choice than making a great deal.  Like the Amphion that may not mate well with the IDA-16.  Older speakers can have problems (like rotting surrounds and aging capacitors) but they do tend to have the more full bodied sound that I think might suit you well.

rustydoglim

Re: Speakers for NuPrime IDA-16?
« Reply #38 on: 15 Feb 2016, 07:20 pm »
Thanks! This is a good discussion.

srb

Re: Speakers for NuPrime IDA-16?
« Reply #39 on: 15 Feb 2016, 07:39 pm »
I'd be leery of ribbon tweeters with the IDA-16, as they tend to dominate the sound of (show off in) whatever speaker they're in and could again compound the spritely sound of the IDA-16.

That's certainly possible, but as a generalization I'd have to disagree.  Two speakers I've owned with the Aurum Cantus G2 tweeter were much gentler and less strident in the highs as compared to some more aggressive dome tweetered speakers.

And if you have heard speakers with the RAAL ribbons, the initial impression is that they might possibly be a bit soft in the highs until you realize that the sound is near perfect and accurate compared to some speakers you might have heard with sizzling hot dome tweeters.

If it's a quality ribbon tweeter (RAAL and Aurum Cantus come first to mind) and the crossover is properly designed and there is correct attenuation of the tweeter to match the output level of the other driver(s), the sound can be quite refined and delicate without any bright edges.

Steve