Amplifiers with IcePower 1200AS2, class D module

maty · « **on:** 10 Mar 2018, 09:25 am »

Yesterday and today, in others forums, I have write about this new class D module.

Here, we have the bavmike audiophile implementation of IcePower 1200AS2.

Mivera circle: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=204.0

* https://www.miveraaudio.com/product-page/purepower-standard-icepower-1200as2-2-channel-amp $1,499

* https://www.miveraaudio.com/product-page/icepower-1200as2-amp-kit-lot-1 $1,799

* Purepower Icepower 1200AS2 amp listening impressions

https://www.miveraaudio.com/forum/purepower-amplifier/purepower-icepower-1200as2-amp-listening-impressions

In Europe we have, for now, three alternatives:

NORD TWO ICE POWER 1200AS2 £819-£949 -> €921-€1,067 (include UK VAT)

https://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/nord-two-ice-power-1200as2-power-am

Apollon AS1200 ICEPOWER €1,188 (include Austrian VAT), Update: 18.04.2018

https://www.apollonaudio.com/apollon-audio-as1200-class-d-ice-power-based-amplifier/

STUDIO N-10 €830, without taxes (*) -> €1012,60 with Italian VAT

https://www.rougeaudiodesign.com/studio-n-10

Alauda without price for now

https://www.rougeaudiodesign.com/alauda

mocenigo:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=156237.msg1673068#msg1673068

Quote

(*) Rouge price is without italian VAT, which is included at checkout for EU customers (Apollon and NORD instead subtract it at checkout for non-EU customers) adding 22% and price of the Rouge Studio-10 reaches 1012,60€.

Also, missing is a comparison of the connectors and internal cabling (Rouge has good quality baseline option, that keep price low, similarly for NORD, whereas Apollon starts with ETI binding posts that would alone cost 100€) - and many other differences.

********

~~Apollon and~~ Rouge Studio N-10 uses a cheap chinese RF/EMI filter 10A. In Europe, with 230V, better idea 6A (less amperes -> more RF attenuation f < 1 MHz aka audio band). And Schaffner, off course.

https://www.google.com/search?q=IcePower+1200AS2+class+D

maty · « **Reply #1 on:** 10 Mar 2018, 09:26 am »

https://www.rougeaudiodesign.com/product-page/studio-n-10

Quote

CUSTOM UPGRADES

For any further customization of the amplifier, not included in the automatic options shown on this page, please contact us by email for a quote.

Maybe Apollon too. And Nord.

You can change the RF/EMI filter, generic wires…

maty · « **Reply #2 on:** 10 Mar 2018, 09:28 am »

* Nord

~~Takeshi~~ Takachi cases. Only 2 mm aluminium

http://www.takachi-enclosure.com/data/p_02aluminum.html

[PDF] http://www.takachi-enclosure.com/data/c16/HYR_02.pdf

* Apollon. I like more thick walls.

Quote

Black 10mm aluminium faceplate
Silver 10mm aluminium faceplate
4mm silver aluminium 2HE rackmount faceplate
4mm black aluminium 2HE rackmount faceplate

* Studio N-10

Quote

metallo nero con frontale alluminio ossidato silver 10mm (manifattura italiana)

The Studio N-10 with Schaffner FN 9244B 6A inlet and better? wires is a great option to me.

I think if you notice sound changes with the wiring is that there are interference problems.

Neutrik connectors, good wires (not very expensive like Furutech -Mivera), Schaffner RF/EMI filter and/or Würth 150 kHz ferrite would be my choice. Apollon or Rogueaudio.

Updated: ~~Takeshi~~ -> Takachi enclosures

maty · « **Reply #3 on:** 10 Mar 2018, 10:00 am »

Schaffner FN 9244B:

https://www.schaffner.com/product-storage/datasheets/fn-9244/

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/IEC-inlet-filter-Schaffner-FN_9244-specs.png

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/IEC-inlet-filter-Schaffner-FN_9244-typical-filter-attenuation.png

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/IEC-inlet-filter-Schaffner-FN_9244-cicuit.png

* B = medical

Würth 150 kHz ferrite

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/Wurth-150-khz-ferrite-impedance-curve.png

maty · « **Reply #4 on:** 10 Mar 2018, 10:05 am »

Other options like cheap chinese RF/EMI filters:

Single-stage filters

https://www.schaffner.com/products/emcemi/

I have not reviewed the attenuation graphs to know which of them is better for audio and this amperage. Maybe some of them is better than the FN 9244B inlet.

*** I do not know if Two or Three stage filters work well with class D amps or this module ***

With my class AB Yamaha I only have one FN 9244B in the chain. With two the sound was worse, less dynamics. And a Würth 150 kHz ferrite.

With my class AB Marantz I have two FN 9244B in the chain. And a Würth 150 kHz ferrite.

My estimate: Würth 150 kHz ferrite is like/almost 1/2 FN 9244B 3A in RF attenuation.

maty · « **Reply #5 on:** 10 Mar 2018, 10:24 am »

Yamaha system with DCB (BIG Mundorf) + DCBx2 (big EPCOS)

Marantz system with DCB (big EPCOS) + DCBx4 (big EPCOS).

By the way, Marantz system with DCBx2 + DCBx4 sounds worse: less dynamics.

Always is try and error. Step by step, no hurries.

* DCB = DC Blocker

* The DCB (BIG Mundorf caps) is still burning in my TV system. Next week it will go to with my PC + ODAC + AV Marantz SR4500 + KEF Q100 system (all cheap tweaked by me).

I have a thread here:

How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=153802.0

bavmike · « **Reply #6 on:** 10 Mar 2018, 02:45 pm »

Quote from: maty on 10 Mar 2018, 10:05 am

Other options like cheap chinese RF/EMI filters:

Single-stage filters

https://www.schaffner.com/products/emcemi/

I have not reviewed the attenuation graphs to know which of them is better for audio and this amperage. Maybe some of them is better than the FN 9244B inlet.

*** I do not know if Two or Three stage filters work well with class D amps or this module ***

With my class AB Yamaha I only have one FN 9244B in the chain. With two the sound was worse, less dynamics. And a Würth 150 kHz ferrite.

With my class AB Marantz I have two FN 9244B in the chain. And a Würth 150 kHz ferrite.

My estimate: Würth 150 kHz ferrite is like/almost 1/2 FN 9244B 3A in RF attenuation.

Bruno warned against using these EMI filters with the Ncore amps. But these guys using them are also using with their Ncore based amps. If they aren't required, all you're doing is passing the power signal through a bunch of extra circuitry. There's already EMI filters in the 1200AS power supply. However they only cost $10-15 so if anyone wants to try, go ahead.

I would much rather suggest just using a choke filter for the chassis ground only. And keep a pure transmission from a Furutech NCF inlet direct to the amp module. And definitely not run the mains power through the front button switch. This is a high current amplifier, and running all the power through the tiny contacts of a Chinese push button switch is a big no-no.

PeteG · « **Reply #7 on:** 10 Mar 2018, 02:53 pm »

From DiyAudio (Bellissimo Audio Design): http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendor-s-bazaar/319120-icepower-1200as2.html.
I have a pair coming.

maty · « **Reply #8 on:** 10 Mar 2018, 02:55 pm »

Yamaha, Marantz and others already have RF/EMI filters but they can not attenuate enough in my house. You know I have "tons" of RF/EMI at mains and in the air

A common choke filter is a good idea. SBooster PSU uses too.

Re: < or = $700 Linear Power Supply Comparisons

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=155847.msg1670164#msg1670164

[IMG] https://markgrant.co.uk/489-thickbox_default/sbooster-15-16-volt-linear-power-supply.jpg

xrk971 thinks the same with the PSU to the new DIY class A amplifier Aksa Lender P-mos Hybrid Aleph (ALPHA) (I LOVE the harmonic profile, it is so beautifuuuuul).

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/318102-aksa-lender-mos-hybrid-aleph-alpha-amplifier-post5360011.html

Quote

...My SMPS seems to not be able to keep up without being stressed at the currents we are talking about here. I was running the DC step up at 29v to make 24v after the cap Mx and so that was 29/24x1.3ampsx2/0.9=3.4amps. Seems within 5amp rating but the smps supply seems to have more noise when pushed this hard. I might try again later with a good common mode choke filter. For now, just use the trafo and linear supply.

bavmike · « **Reply #9 on:** 10 Mar 2018, 03:10 pm »

Quote from: PeteG on 10 Mar 2018, 02:53 pm

From DiyAudio (Bellissimo Audio Design): http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendor-s-bazaar/319120-icepower-1200as2.html.
I have a pair coming.

I heard from Icepower they actually only ordered 30 modules, not a pallet, as they claimed on another thread. And got their hand slapped for selling modules and kits. I stopped selling kits because I found out it's against the Icepower terms and conditions.

PeteG · « **Reply #10 on:** 10 Mar 2018, 03:21 pm »

Quote from: bavmike on 10 Mar 2018, 03:10 pm

I heard from Icepower they actually only ordered 30 modules, not a pallet, as they claimed on another thread. And got their hand slapped for selling modules and kits. I stopped selling kits because I found out it's against the Icepower terms and conditions.

30 is nothing to sneeze at, how many on a pallet.

bavmike · « **Reply #11 on:** 10 Mar 2018, 03:22 pm »

Quote from: PeteG on 10 Mar 2018, 03:21 pm

30 is nothing to sneeze at, how many on a pallet.

120 on a pallet. If they sold 120 and only have 30 coming, it's going to be an issue. Especially since Icepower know's what they're up to now.

bavmike · « **Reply #12 on:** 10 Mar 2018, 03:38 pm »

On the Icepower contract:

barrows · « **Reply #13 on:** 10 Mar 2018, 04:43 pm »

Yes, adding additional AC line filtering to products using SMPS can be hit and miss if you do not know what you are doing. The SMPS already has CLC filtering at the input, by adding extra capacitive filtering nearby, you can create a resonant circuit, which will do more harm than good. Unless you have the ability to test for these resonances, better to let it be rather than increase the noise on the incoming AC line.
A very small cap will usually be OK, like .1 µF or less, but no more than that.
This also means one needs to be careful about plugging these amps into power conditioners with parallel capacitive filtering, the power cable will provide some damping of potential resonances but it still could be a problem.

maty · « **Reply #14 on:** 10 Mar 2018, 05:03 pm »

That is one of the reasons why I like DIY cables with Schaffner RF/EMI filter inlet + Schurter IEC C13 -> It has very easy my favourite trial and error procedure with these noise & interference problems.

Better with a good unshielded power cable -> a Würth 150 kHz ferrite will be more effective.

PeteG · « **Reply #15 on:** 11 Mar 2018, 06:48 pm »

Does anyone know what the 2 ohm power rating is (1200AS2).

OzarkTom · « **Reply #16 on:** 11 Mar 2018, 07:29 pm »

A very good article on the new Icepower series.

http://www.audioxpress.com/files/attachment/2643

barrows · « **Reply #17 on:** 11 Mar 2018, 10:26 pm »

Quote from: PeteG on 11 Mar 2018, 06:48 pm

Does anyone know what the 2 ohm power rating is (1200AS2).

Download the data sheet here for 1200 AS1 and 1200 AS2:

https://icepower.dk/products/amplifier-power-modules/as-series/

OzarkTom · « **Reply #18 on:** 11 Mar 2018, 10:51 pm »

Bellissimo Audio Design says a pallet of 1200as modules is due in on the 27th.

bavmike · « **Reply #19 on:** 11 Mar 2018, 11:03 pm »

Quote from: OzarkTom on 11 Mar 2018, 10:51 pm

Bellissimo Audio Design says a pallet of 1200as modules is due in on the 27th.

I'd check with Paul at Icepower North America to confirm that first. He's the one who the orders all go through. Also the guy who told me that is BS.