[pgastone]

Hello,

Recently, I have been going through a new upgrade phase and since digital has now become my primary source- Tidal through Roon for the most part- I am considering a dac/streamer upgrade.  Right now I have a mac mini usb connected to an ifi micro idsd.  This was my first foray into digital (excluding cd of course) and since then I have steadily upgraded other components-  right now I have a McIntosh 7000 integrated and Magico S1 (mk1, not 2).  Cabling is Nordost.

So I think that stepping up from the ifi/mac mini might be worth while.

I have been wondering about upgrading to an all in one "transport" with dac but i have found little comparing the auralic and lumen, which would seem to be obvious candidates for a head to head comparison- and yet I found surprisingly few comparative reviews and comments.  What little i did find I didn't think was really useful as most of the discussions are more generally about whether it makes more sense to have an external dac vs streamer and whether the streamer does or does not affect sound quality.
Don't get me wrong, I think that is a very interesting point and I would be interested in your views on that as well particularly whether integrated approach makes sense  and what are the your impressions of the Altair vs D1 (apart from features I would like to hear your thoughts on the respective sq), and/or if it makes more sense to keep the mac mini in the loop and just go for an external dac solution....and if so what would u recommend in the $1000-2000 budget range.

As an aside, if you are interested this has been the evolution of my system. My change in electronics was driven by speaker choices:
I was originally running a pair of Focal Utopia Be's with a Unison Research Unico Se. A magnificent combination (for what it's worth, Sam Tellig suggested that the latter was the best Integrated he had heard which I think was a bit of an exaggeration ). The problem was that at the time I was living in Italy in a room with absolutely terrible acoustics (basically a square box)- and in that room the often heard complaint about the be tweeter of the Focals was prominent.  The sound was really astounding up to a certain volume level but a notch above that and the speakers became strident.  I actually think the the criticism leveled at Focal Be's is generally not right- in that room anything would have had issues- but I will say that in the wrong environment the Be tweeter can suffer more than others, which does not mean they are in fact.  The treble problem all but disappeared in any room I had them in since- in fact notwithstanding their size they sounded glorious particularly in a spacious setting.  Anyway, at the time I decided that once and for all I would get a preamp or integrated with tone controls to deal with this issue if I were to play music in a "bad environment" again and also something powerful enough to deal with pretty much any load should I decide to change to more power hungry speakers.  And thus I got the 7000.
I was using the Micro's with a sub (fl 110) and after some years i decided I wanted to try a speaker that went deeper- I always thought that getting the the sub to integrate properly was a lot of work and sometimes very frustrating.
From these I moved to Thiel 3.7's which I had always wanted to try (I have had 3 pairs of Thiels in the past)- and they are truly special.  But alas the size was not just manageable after I had to move the system to smaller quarters.
And that brought me to Magico's (I still have Micro's and while I do like the S1's I am not entirely convinced by this "upgrade"- yes, more bass  and v welll balanced but maybe less involving....but that is a story for another post).

[Anonamemouse]

In my opinion the sound is made in the dac. It really doesn't matter much what streamer you use, as all it does is render the digital signal to something a dac can handle.
From end to start: I have a Bryston poweramp, a sovereign pre amp (totalling about $20,000 in amplification), a Schitt Gungnir multibit (super detail yet incredibly smooth, do replace the fuse!) and a $550 Bluesound Node2 streamer to render the stuff coming in from my NAS.
Feel free to spend a fortune on a renderer, it will have a nicer controller app than the Bluesound one, but the sound will be the same...

[geowak]

I have to agree with Anonamemouse in part, the Bluesound Node 2 is tremendous for $500, then start looking at a great DAC to pair with it. I like the Mytek Brooklyn or the DirectStream DAC from PS Audio if you want to explore MQA. I like Schiit Yggdrasil or Lumin D1 if you don't want MQA.
BTW My opinion of MQA? Best sound ever from my simple audio rig and that was just with the Node 2.

[RandyH]

+1 Bluesound Node 2

I've had this streamer in my system for a couple of months now.  It is great.  So far I have been using it with it's internal DAC.  It already sounds as good as my Bryston BCD-3 player.  I am curious how much further it would be improved with an upgraded external DAC.  I am also very curious how the Bluesound would stack up against more expensive "one box" solutions like the Lumin D1 or even the Aurender A10 (at a significantly higher cost).  I am smitten with streaming in general and TIDAL in particular.  If the Bluesound Node 2 is "entry level" into the world of streaming I am very curious to hear how much better it can get.  My guess is that the law of diminishing returns kicks in pretty quickly after the basic Node 2 level and I would find myself having to spend a lot more money for much smaller incremental improvements in sound quality....but what else is new? 

[pgastone]

Many thx for the advice- sorry for the delay but i was away in the last couple of days. It does seem that that the Blue Sound Node 2 would make a lot sense rather than going with expensive solutions with ian ntegrated dac. So I will probably skip the lumen d1 or auralic altair in favor of of this solution with a better external dac.
But at this point should i not stick with mac mini running roon and juts add a dac?  Or you think that the Node 2 would still be a better solution?

At this point I would like to try my hand with MQA- so maybe a Brooklyn makes sense (I have to say I am surprised there aren't more products supporting MQA- at least in the $2000-2500 range).
That said, before MQA, I bought IFI Micro iDSD because I did want to try high rez PCM/DSD but I have since found that for what I listen to there isn't that much on offer I would like to buy- yes Muddy Waters Folk Singer is a great album but how many permutations can they make?  And this seems to apply to so many other albums and the product offering seems v repetitive.   
Ultimately, beyond redbook, I have gotten less out of the IFI than what I would have initially expected- which did get me thinking about Shiit Yggdrasil.  However, with MQA now on tidal this might be a little limiting.

[mav52]

 had a BlueSound Node 2, after I got my Lumin D1, the Bluesound went back.  The Lumin just sounded right, matches as close to my analog as I can get for under 2 bills. The app just works, supports Roon and its fully MQA.   

[DSkip]

Those I know with ears I trust have not been impressed with the BS N2 output but I have not heard it myself.  A streamer does have a big impact on the sound.  I am an AURALiC Dealer and can say without a doubt that the Altair is their best bang for buck product and by far my favorite product.  To top that off, it is currently 20% off regular price.  Basically, the Altair combines the Aries and Vega in one chassis with slight compromise.  The DAC is superb and the unit itself is a rock solid performer.

If you go with a streamer + DAC, expect to spend at least the same to match the performance of this combination - not including the additional cables.  I would recommend the Aries Mini over the BS N2, but the Mini is currently out of production so it might be hard to track one down.  There is little competition in the $500 range for streamers so if you do go streamer + DAC, the BS N2 may be your best bet at this time.


Note that AURALiC is not MQA certified, but they do unfold the files similarly to MQA to 96 and even 192.  I would suggest not buying a DAC simply because of MQA and instead look at the pure sound quality of the units.  MQA is a bonus, not a key feature.


I am also an iFi dealer and can tell you that the Altair will be leagues above the Mini + iFi. 

[witchdoctor]

I like the Bluesound Node as well, I use the analog outs most of the time but have used an external DAC as well to compare. I think "synergy" is the key and it is best to audition yourself. You can always connect a DAC to it if you get the itch later. If you must spend $$$ I would recommend it's big brothers from NAD:

https://nadelectronics.com/products/masters/masters-sources/

[pgastone]

Thanks for replies.....very useful indeed.

I am by no means married to an integrated solution but as DSkip mentioned it just seems to be a good convenient upgrade solution, which is why I originally brought up the Altair and the Lumin.
As for MQA I realize that it is just an additional feature but people I know who have tried it though Tidal have in many cases, though not always, found that it sounds somewhat more natural and organic vs some dsd/pcm recordings so I would like to include MQA capability as part of my upgrade.

From your replies it seems that most of you think that a dedicated streamer, with an integrated dac or not, is preferable to the mac mini.
My conundrum had been whether to keep the mac mini in the loop and spending more on standalone dac rather looking at dac/streamer- if I went with the former I suppose the Mytel Brooklyn would be the way to go for both my budget and desire to try Tidal/MQA.
However, I am starting to rethink this based on your feedback. 
Furthermore, what concerns me is that the Brooklyn is laden with great features but which I am very unlikely to use- so the dac implementation per se might not be much of an improvement over a standalone streamer+dac,
I don't know, what do you think?

Btw, I have an additional question, I see that many products are quoted as being Roon ready.  I use Roon with my Mini/IFI set-up with out anything being Roon ready- does the Roon ready apply to when a computer is not involved and therefore apply to the streaming? 
Or are there other aspects I am not considering.

Thx again for taking the time to help me work through this- it has been invaluable.

(DSkip, so Altair does unfold MQA as if say a Broonklyn or Lumen would? At the price you mentioned it would be very good value).