Spatial M3 Triode Master

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badaxe73

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #120 on: 4 Sep 2017, 02:14 pm »
I just boxed up my M3 Turbo S to send back to be upgraded to the Triode Master! The turbo's are so good i'm excited and nervous at the same time. I hope the upgrade only adds to what the Turbo S already is.
I'm running both SS classe cav150 and a Rogue Audio magnum II amplifiers.  :thumb:

Wind Chaser

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #121 on: 4 Sep 2017, 03:05 pm »
Bad axe, of those two distinctly different amps, which do you prefer and why?

badaxe73

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #122 on: 5 Sep 2017, 12:49 am »
I run the Classe for home theater use on the spatials, and the Rogue for 2 channel listening.
Both sound great excellent on the M3 Turbo S

who?me?

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #123 on: 9 Sep 2017, 07:46 pm »
I run the Classe for home theater use on the spatials, and the Rogue for 2 channel listening.
Both sound great excellent on the M3 Turbo S

Makes sense to me, I maxed out on my funds for a stellar 2 channel amp with sub out (PL HP Integrated) with a Mullard front end. But would like to use the HT bypass for surround sound later this year.

But I did add a 250 watt Martin Logan 10" sub to my Triodes, sounds much better with bottom end filled out.
FYI, Clayton runs dual subs with his Triodes at home.


badaxe73

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #124 on: 10 Sep 2017, 01:36 pm »
i'm running 2 svs 12" sealed subs
absolutely perfect match with with thw M3 turbo's
Hope to get some more feed back on the triode masters.

mine have been shipped back for the upgrade. :thumb:

glynnw

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #125 on: 10 Sep 2017, 02:52 pm »
Me three - running pair of Danny's dual 12" servo OB subs w/my TMs and they make a noticeable improvement. 

Wind Chaser

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #126 on: 10 Sep 2017, 04:51 pm »
Me three - running pair of Danny's dual 12" servo OB subs w/my TMs and they make a noticeable improvement.

That's exactly what I'd do if I required more bass and had the room to accommodate those subs. There's a world of difference between OB bass and box generated bass.

who?me?

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #127 on: 11 Sep 2017, 05:06 pm »
That's exactly what I'd do if I required more bass and had the room to accommodate those subs. There's a world of difference between OB bass and box generated bass.

Wind- these are pretty "big" speakers mainly due to the width, and the open baffle really open up in bigger rooms.
I just mentioned above that I run a sub with my Triodes now, and that was a major gain.
But what I should have mentioned is that my low end is restricted due to the 8 EL-34 tubes in the PL Integrated.

I'm looking at replacing the stock PL EL34s with Tung Sol KT120s,
which would also give a more filled out and extended sound from top to bottom.

I also just put in 4 NOS Mullard 12AU7s (to replace 4 of the 6 stock Prima Luna 12AU7s),
so I'm hoping the benefits of both the Mullards and Tung Sold will complement one another.

witchdoctor

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #128 on: 11 Sep 2017, 06:06 pm »
Wind- these are pretty "big" speakers mainly due to the width, and the open baffle really open up in bigger rooms.
I just mentioned above that I run a sub with my Triodes now, and that was a major gain.
But what I should have mentioned is that my low end is restricted due to the 8 EL-34 tubes in the PL Integrated.

I'm looking at replacing the stock PL EL34s with Tung Sol KT120s,
which would also give a more filled out and extended sound from top to bottom.

I also just put in 4 NOS Mullard 12AU7s (to replace 4 of the 6 stock Prima Luna 12AU7s),
so I'm hoping the benefits of both the Mullards and Tung Sold will complement one another.

Before you replace the tubes try a new wall socket like the Mapleshade Minimalist for less than $100, you will likely lift your whole systems performance.

rollo

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #129 on: 11 Sep 2017, 11:07 pm »
Wind- these are pretty "big" speakers mainly due to the width, and the open baffle really open up in bigger rooms.
I just mentioned above that I run a sub with my Triodes now, and that was a major gain.
But what I should have mentioned is that my low end is restricted due to the 8 EL-34 tubes in the PL Integrated.

I'm looking at replacing the stock PL EL34s with Tung Sol KT120s,
which would also give a more filled out and extended sound from top to bottom.

I also just put in 4 NOS Mullard 12AU7s (to replace 4 of the 6 stock Prima Luna 12AU7s),
so I'm hoping the benefits of both the Mullards and Tung Sold will complement one another.

  What is the frequency response of your amp ? Does your sub go to 20hz ? Your speaker goes to 32hz [ -3db] I believe. Where are you crossing over ?


charles



who?me?

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #130 on: 12 Sep 2017, 06:51 pm »
Before you replace the tubes try a new wall socket like the Mapleshade Minimalist for less than $100, you will likely lift your whole systems performance.

Dr Witch
I will look into the Maeshade. In fact, I think I was reading about it in the "Cheap Audio" or some such forum here.  The forum discussion shows that people had extreme opinions on both ends of the spectrum. So that is my hesitation.

 But maybe they have a return policy? And I could try it and send it back if it did not help 

who?me?

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #131 on: 19 Sep 2017, 07:43 pm »
  What is the frequency response of your amp ? Does your sub go to 20hz ? Your speaker goes to 32hz [ -3db] I believe. Where are you crossing over ?
charles

Charles,
1. my amp goes down to 20 hz or so. In any case, PrimaLuna prides itself on bandwith from its amps, propulsed from the large transformers they install.

2. yes, the M3 Triodes go down to 32 hz, but not with the EL34 tubes  I was running (restricted freq extensions), thats why the sub is a breath of fresh air.

3. My low pass filter on the sub is set to the lowest possible, 30 hz in order to make up for the LFEs that are restricted by the EL34 tubes. its a Martin Logan Grotto sub, 250w, 10"woofer I believe, about 10 years old, good shape.

bbybaudio

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #132 on: 20 Sep 2017, 03:39 pm »
Hi all,
I have still not taken the plunge on the TMs. However, like "whome" (sp) I run the same PL Integrated with 4 Brimar 12AU7s. I have almost too much low end. Even though it is well delineated (can hear all the notes).

I improved bass response significantly when I added Oyaide R1 receptacles throughout and Anti-cable Reference 3 and 2 power cables.

This improvement was seen with my prior system as well (Cary SLP 98 F1 Direct Coupled going into Manley Snappers). Low end with the PL is better, more defined, etc, than with the Cary/Snapper combo.

The receptacles and the cables, each independently added a wealth of low end impact and definition.

Right now I could not imagine adding subs to my system.

who?me?

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #133 on: 20 Sep 2017, 05:05 pm »
Hi all,
I have still not taken the plunge on the TMs. However, like "whome" (sp) I run the same PL Integrated with 4 Brimar 12AU7s. I have almost too much low end. Even though it is well delineated (can hear all the notes).

I improved bass response significantly when I added Oyaide R1 receptacles throughout and Anti-cable Reference 3 and 2 power cables.

This improvement was seen with my prior system as well (Cary SLP 98 F1 Direct Coupled going into Manley Snappers). Low end with the PL is better, more defined, etc, than with the Cary/Snapper combo.

The receptacles and the cables, each independently added a wealth of low end impact and definition.

Right now I could not imagine adding subs to my system.



The Brimars are your preamp tubes, but  what tubes are you using for your Power tubes? That can make all the difference in your bottom and top end extension. El34? KT88? What kind?
E.g., I'm running EL34s, so less extension and taughtness on the bottom end
« Last Edit: 25 Sep 2017, 11:33 pm by who?me? »

rollo

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #134 on: 20 Sep 2017, 05:14 pm »
  Try playing with the crossover points. Sometimes room interaction and other factors diminish bass. Just try raising the setting until you hear the subs. Then turn down a little at a time for a linear sound. Have fun trying.


charles

bbybaudio

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #135 on: 21 Sep 2017, 08:31 pm »
who?me?  I am running the stock EL34s. Dealer that sold unit mentioned I should go to KT120s, but then again he is also an Audio Research dealer.

Stereophile review states that they prefer the EL34 tube over the others.

Thought about upgrading the EL34s, but Upscale Audio does not push this like they do using the Brimars or Mullards in the Front.

who?me?

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #136 on: 26 Sep 2017, 05:19 pm »
who?me?  I am running the stock EL34s. Dealer that sold unit mentioned I should go to KT120s, but then again he is also an Audio Research dealer.

Stereophile review states that they prefer the EL34 tube over the others.

Thought about upgrading the EL34s, but Upscale Audio does not push this like they do using the Brimars or Mullards in the Front.

Yes, but remember, the signal passes thru the the preamp tubes to the power tubes,
so the power tubes have the last (tube) sonic signature before going to the speakers to your ears.
IOWs, the preamp tube have influence as you know, but are not the final say in the matter.

Eg. In the last week, I switched out the stock PL EL34s for 4 PS VANE KT88s and 4 RAM KT88s.
The difference was significant, and predictable, just as Kevin says himself in his video tirades.
And this is still after putting in NOS MULLARDS 12AU7s in the Preamp section.

As expected, the hi low frequencies were extended, the top and bottom were less "soft" and round sounding.
The bass was more taught, octaves were better delineated. I was getting some listeners fatigue with the EL34s
in the lower high frequencies. The KT88s spread out the energy to higher frequencies,
reducing the bunched up energy at the lower highs, and balancing out the sound from upper mids to high highs. Now we are cooking with Crisco.

I am considering the KT120s as well for more extension, immediacy, and bass delineation/taughtness.
I am just hoping it does not negate the 4NOS MULLARDS that I put on the front end to the ridiculous tune of ($450).

Will call Upscale and see what they suggest, given my current set up.

snovosel

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #137 on: 16 Oct 2017, 03:01 pm »
Hi all, thought I would offer some thoughts on this discussion as I have had the M3 Turbo S for the past year and have today ordered the Triode Master upgrade.  I just sent Clayton an email inquiring how the exchange/upgrade works.  Do I box up the Turbos (in the original shipping containers) or does Spatial send out a new box and then I return them? 

Re tube amps, I am running separate PrimaLuna DiaLogue power and preamps.  I tried both the stock EL34s and KT120s and ended up selling the 120s because they were too harsh for my liking.  Yes there was an increase in overall dynamics with the 120s but there was also waaay too much, too early, ear fatigue.

I am dabbling with a variety of 12AU7s (in both the power and preamp) -- I've got the Brimars, Mullards, Cifte, and JAN-CBRZ.  I also swapped the stock rectifier to the Phillips 5AR4.

Looking forward to hear how the Triode compares to the Turbo.

As with many others here, I have the Turbos set out from the wall, im my case 47" to the front of the speaker.

Wind Chaser

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #138 on: 16 Oct 2017, 03:47 pm »
Looking forward to hear how the Triode compares to the Turbo.

I'm guessing the bigger idea behind the TMs is to help accommodate SET amps.

If you're not running a SET, Verastarr offers a variety of crossover upgrades for the Turbo series that don't cost nearly as much as the TM mod.

jseymour

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #139 on: 16 Oct 2017, 03:53 pm »
There also is a better high end driver that is a dipole.  It is an improvement over the Turbo S.

I have my M3 TMs toed in with the outer edge 58" and the inner edge 53" away from the back wall.  7' 6" apart.  Fantastic sound stage presentation.