[jk@home]

I would like to try that too so what would be a good pro audio preamp/mixer with balanced outputs that matches the price-performance ratio of the crown? In fact, a few extra channels for an occasional addition of an instrument (in a different system) would actually be a plus for me as long as the form factor is small. Tried an older Presonus Audiobox USB but since that is more designed to be an economical and portable recording to computer solution with mic preamp, I found it to be clipping a bit when used with the crown.

Thanks for the info on the XTI fan. On the XLS, I have only noticed the fan to turn on once and that was when I played with the high pass settings and had it at close to 3000hz

Well the pre I am using is not a Pro mixer, it's the discontinued multichannel analog unit from Nuforce. On sale or used, it is a pretty good deal, if you can still find one. I have a MiniDSP NanoDIGI, plus extra FiiO DACs, that I plan on using to blend and EQ all my subs into the system better, so the reason way I went with a multichannel analog unit.

Parasound makes a nice multichannel pre for much more $$$.

Noway is using a BenchMark DAC with his Crown, so that's a pro DAC plus preamp combo, with balanced outputs.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I found a used pair of MMG's for $400 in Alabama.

http://gadsden.craigslist.org/sys/4827572317.html

If you are looking at used Maggies, be aware that older Maggies have a tendency for the glue that is holding the wires on the mylar to dry out and come loose.  This causes a rattle on bass heavy music.  It can be fixed by sending it into the factory or you can order the glue from Magnepan and DIY as long it is not during the winter because Magnepan will not ship the glue during the cold months as it ruins the glue.

I have a slight rattle on one of my 12 year old MMG's that I am going to drop off at Magnepan factory 20 minutes from my house.

[Tomy2Tone]

I have had the cryoamp playing now for 24 hours. Here is my results on my Zellaton speakers.

Cryo amp with stock binding posts-More detail which means bigger soundstage and more depth. Hight of soundstage is much higher. It does sound slightly clinical. It was very clinical sounding last night, maybe it will be better after another 24 hours. Time also to change those binding posts, that will help.

Salis Audio 1500 with Pomona binding posts-very natural sounding and has all the magic and emotion that I prefer.  Soundstage is good, but not quite as good as the cryo amp. This round goes to the Salis Audio amp because of the magic.

Now if we can get both strengths in one amp, that will be perfect.

Interesting on the soundstage detail with cryo amp Tom. I was trying to remember how many hours the cryo man said it would take for the cryo amp to settle after the treatment, was it something like 200 hours?

As soon as I get my Perseus back from Rogue I'll look to get the 1500's cryoed.

[OzarkTom]

Interesting on the soundstage detail with cryo amp Tom. I was trying to remember how many hours the cryo man said it would take for the cryo amp to settle after the treatment, was it something like 200 hours?

As soon as I get my Perseus back from Rogue I'll look to get the 1500's cryoed.

Remember,  this is the one that Roscoe was using, so it is probably is close to being burned in. But  150-200 hours is probably the best for it the cryo'd. I will try and get the Pomona binding posts put in tonight.

[Tomy2Tone]

Remember,  this is the one that Roscoe was using, so it is probably is close to being burned in. But  150-200 hours is probably the best for it the cryo'd. I will try and get the Pomona binding posts put in tonight.

I agree the Salis mod does make it sound nice and smooth but if the cryo can increase the soundstage scale and detail then that would just be the cherry on top.

[zapper7]

Hey Guys,

Not to go backwards, but which binding posts fit right in the amp, I can't remember and would like to see if anyone found others not in this thread that worked well.

thanks

[roscoeiii]

Remember,  this is the one that Roscoe was using, so it is probably is close to being burned in. But  150-200 hours is probably the best for it the cryo'd. I will try and get the Pomona binding posts put in tonight.

I'd say ~150 hours sounds about right for the time it spent playing in my system.

[roscoeiii]

And just put the iTube into the chain. Using it as a buffer with +6dB gain. Leaving the gain controls where they were (5 o'clock), this did raise the noise floor but turning the XLS gain down to around 2 o'clock really did the trick in my system. Got the XLS a hotter signal (which it seems to like), and let me have a bit less XLS gain. This is with the 3D circuitry on at the highest level.

Will report back on more details once I have gotten more time with the iTube.

[OzarkTom]

Hey Guys,

Not to go backwards, but which binding posts fit right in the amp, I can't remember and would like to see if anyone found others not in this thread that worked well.

thanks

I used the Pomonas, fits perfectly. On the inside of the amp, I left out those plastic washers that comes with these posts, my buddy Rex told me to do. These are about $10 each at Mouser.

[Tomy2Tone]

And just put the iTube into the chain. Using it as a buffer with +6dB gain. Leaving the gain controls where they were (5 o'clock), this did raise the noise floor but turning the XLS gain down to around 2 o'clock really did the trick in my system. Got the XLS a hotter signal (which it seems to like), and let me have a bit less XLS gain. This is with the 3D circuitry on at the highest level.

Will report back on more details once I have gotten more time with the iTube.

Did you get any type of upgraded power supply?

Since my Perseus pre has been out to Rogue I've put the itube in but just as a buffer. Sounds good but will experiment with it as a preamp. The astron ps I ordered probably won't get here till Monday which will give me plenty time to notice the difference it makes.

[roscoeiii]

No upgrades or tweaks yet. Will tweak down the road.

[OzarkTom]

Just what I figured. It was the stock binding posts that was causing the clinical sound on the cryo amp. Make sure you get rid of those if you are using spades or bananas.

Tonights nod goes very slightly  to the cryo amp  with Pomonas over the Salis Audio with Pomonas.  The cryo amp now even sounds slightly more magical and emotional with the bigger soundstage. Now to send the Salis Audio amp off and get it cryo'd.

[LP1]

I've been following this thread with some interest as a custom horn system I commissioned is nearing completion. Bass will be handled by two large sealed cabinets each containing a TD15X.

I have been considering one of the crown amps for sub duty as I'd like to correct any issues using dsp. Am I correct that the dsp in the XTI is more sophisticated than the XLS? For sub only duty, does the difference really matter?

Finally, other than cost and more boxes, what are the differences between using one of the Crown amps vs. the DSPeaker and separate amp?

Thanks!

[dlaloum]

If what you want is a simple crossover - the XSP will do fine (as long as you are happy with the fixed slope...)

The Dspeaker does a lot more in terms of correction than simply cross over though!

The XLS series might be a good value series of amps to have after a DSpeaker or similar DSP corrective system.

DSpeaker and similar allow you to crossover but also adjust for room interaction, gains/losses within the cabinet, etc... in other words it does a whole heap more.

[rodge827]

I've been following this thread with some interest as a custom horn system I commissioned is nearing completion. Bass will be handled by two large sealed cabinets each containing a TD15X.

I have been considering one of the crown amps for sub duty as I'd like to correct any issues using dsp. Am I correct that the dsp in the XTI is more sophisticated than the XLS? For sub only duty, does the difference really matter?

Finally, other than cost and more boxes, what are the differences between using one of the Crown amps vs. the DSPeaker and separate amp?

Thanks!

If what you want is a simple crossover - the XSP will do fine (as long as you are happy with the fixed slope...)

The Dspeaker does a lot more in terms of correction than simply cross over though!

The XLS series might be a good value series of amps to have after a DSpeaker or similar DSP corrective system.

DSpeaker and similar allow you to crossover but also adjust for room interaction, gains/losses within the cabinet, etc... in other words it does a whole heap more.

Using a Dspeaker Dual Core is the way to go.
I have a XLS1500 in Stereo High Pass Mode (99hz) and my subs are dialed in at +/-100hz with the attached plate amps. The slope on the monitors and subs match the slope on the Crown at 24db. When the Dual Core does a calibration it automatically "blends" the two for a seamless integration. After the calibration you can measure frequencies from 20hz-20khz, 20hz-500hz, or 20hz-200hz using the measurement feature. This will help tremendously on deciding which frequencies to "cut" or "boost".

After the calibration in my room I was +/- .5db down at 20hz-30hz I felt it added far too much energy to those hardly used frequencies and did a -9db cut from 30hz-20hz. The bass has a much more natural sound now with the low end roll off. There is also a feature where the the level of compensation can be reduced in small measured steps. In some bass heavy music this is a very helpful feature so the room isn't overloaded with bass and is better balanced with the other frequencies. Of course this is a matter of taste which completely individual YMMV.

There is one on eBay now and the price looks good: http://www.ebay.com/itm/DSpeaker-Anti-Mode-2-0-Dual-Core-Audio-Processor-DAC-w-Auto-Room-Correction-Box-/231459848022?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35e414ff56

Hope this helps to make a choice and happy bidding.

Chris
 

[steve f]

The one thing that the XLS amps need is a good preamp with a bit of gain. Odal3 is right about that.

I've had no major sonic problems with mine, and I've switched them in and out with good A/AB amps. I don't have a large tube amp on hand. (No fair trying to match it up to a tiny class A  OTL rated at 1.5WPC.)  The Crowns are a great value.

In my case, I use efficient speakers that are about 95 DB efficiency. No clipping with the Crown. I wonder if some of the others comparing amps are bothering to level match.

Steve

[Tomy2Tone]

The one thing that the XLS amps need is a good preamp with a bit of gain. Odal3 is right about that.

I've had no major sonic problems with mine, and I've switched them in and out with good A/AB amps. I don't have a large tube amp on hand. (No fair trying to match it up to a tiny class A  OTL rated at 1.5WPC.)  The Crowns are a great value.

In my case, I use efficient speakers that are about 95 DB efficiency. No clipping with the Crown. I wonder if some of the others comparing amps are bothering to level match.

Steve

If you haven't already, would you mind sharing what other A/AB amps you've compared the Crowns to?

[steve f]

ATI, Bryston, B&K, and Rotel. The B&K and Rotel were multichannel amps using two channels, the ATI and Bryston were Stereo amps.

I did not have any monoblocks except for a pair of Antique Sound Labs Wave 8s. (A cheap loss leader amp) I only have two other tube amps, and they are flea power SET types.

I have a few other old amps around by Carver and McIntosh, but I feel they aren't in the same class as the ATI, Bryston, and Rotel. Some of the amps aren't mine. Just loaners, but they all have been here for a few months and I'm familiar with them.

Edit: I haven't tried using the xls 1500s as monoblocks and probably won't.

Steve

[Tomy2Tone]

Thanks for sharing what amps you've used steve f. Always helps to have a little perspective on what people are comparing the Crowns to.

I received the astron power supply today and have had it plugged into the itube for a couple of hours. Definitely a nice improvement over the stock. However, it sounded much better with a good power cable vs the one supplied or any other cheap power cables I had lying around.

Gives a nice, clean and defined soundstage to the itube which I thought was already pretty good.

Thumbs up! 

[rodge827]

I received the astron power supply today and have had it plugged into the itube for a couple of hours. Definitely a nice improvement over the stock. However, it sounded much better with a good power cable vs the one supplied or any other cheap power cables I had lying around.

Gives a nice, clean and defined soundstage to the itube which I thought was already pretty good.

Thumbs up! 

Yep +1