Clearaudio MM -- AT-95E and beyond

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neobop

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Re: Clearaudio MM -- AT-95E and beyond
« Reply #1040 on: 17 Apr 2015, 10:27 pm »
Thanks Griff, the PM was sent.

On Agon you mentioned something about the Garrott (A&R) P77/SAS1.  I take it this is your latest darling, better than the X1/Z1 ?  Maybe just different.

Way to keep the MM thing alive. 
Kudos,
neo

griffithds

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Re: Clearaudio MM -- AT-95E and beyond
« Reply #1041 on: 18 Apr 2015, 12:17 am »
Hi Neo,

  No, the Garrott Bros. P77 is a cartridge that I have had for a long time.  Found it on the Australian E/bay several years ago.  I bought the SAS for it a few years ago.  It was my 1st introduction to the SAS stylus.  I later found a A&R P-77 on the British E/bay site.  I wanted to discover the differences that were made to the A&R after the Bros. worked their magic on them.  A lot of the A&R's around for sale but good luck finding a Garrott Bros. version.  They are very similar to the Grace F-9e in their performance.  The SAS turns it into a completely different cartridge.  The Garrrott P-77 with the SAS reminds me of the AT-155 LC.  Yes, from a Grace F-9e to a AT 155LC is quite a difference.  The SAS is one hell of a stylus!
Regards,
Don

neobop

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Re: Clearaudio MM -- AT-95E and beyond
« Reply #1042 on: 18 Apr 2015, 12:57 am »
Griff,
Wild stuff - small world.  The 155LC is a 440/120 body with beryllium/LC.  That's the same as a Signet MR 5.0LC.  It's usually hard to tell the difference on those between an LC and ML.  The boron/ML seems slightly more exact, maybe less organic.  Lots of AT's used that body though.  I used to have an ATN152ML - also beryllium/ML.  The 152 body was the same.  I also have an ATN140LC - sounds similar to the ATN440ML. 

You've added the ART9 to your list of favorites? 
Regards,
neo


griffithds

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Re: Clearaudio MM -- AT-95E and beyond
« Reply #1043 on: 18 Apr 2015, 02:02 am »
Neo,

  It's a little early to say for sure, but I'm leaning towards removing the ART 9 from 'that' list an placing it on a list all by its self!  (grin) I need to allow that 'newness factor' to pass and judge solely on what I hear'!  I even smile just thinking about it!
  I'm not quite sure what you mean by the use of the words 'less organic'?  I have a couple of those 152 ML's.  If I was to substitute your words 'less organic' and insert my words 'more romantic' then I would have to nod in agreement!
  I bought one of those 140LC's with the idea to use its cantilever for a transplant but like it so well that I just kept it as it was.  Somewhat of a bargain for their asking price.
Regards,

neobop

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Re: Clearaudio MM -- AT-95E and beyond
« Reply #1044 on: 18 Apr 2015, 10:46 am »
Seems that everyone who tries the new ARTs thinks highly of them.  Interesting thread on Agon comparing the ART7 and ART9.  User said the 9 has a little more warmth and midbass - better for popular music.   Of course with .5mV it's a lot easier to amplify.  The 50ANV is still available and now it's less than $1500. 

I was describing boron vs beryllium and I think boron sounds a little less musical, romantic.  Boron is more rigid but beryllium is lighter.  Not complaining about either.  Seems that all the beryllium cantilevered styli have disappeared and NOS is now unobtainium. 

I wonder how the ART9 compares to the Cadenza Black. 
neo

griffithds

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Re: Clearaudio MM -- AT-95E and beyond
« Reply #1045 on: 18 Apr 2015, 03:17 pm »
Hi Neo,

   I am only familiar with the Cadenza Black through its reputation.   From my experience with the ART, I would think that you would be asking an awful lot of that Black in a comparison.  Keep in mind that the ART 9 is Audio Technica's statement product.  Not just another cartridge in their vast line up.
   It was a very hard decision that I had to make to decide between the ART 9 or the 50 ANV.   I own the 150 ANV. and wanted to own the pair, but considering AT has deem the ART 9 as there top cartridge in its design parameters, I decided to go with it.  I also considered the ART 7.  I like what those coreless designs provide but considering the amount of years that it has been available, and the 9 being what should be 'the latest and greatest' (grin) I went with it.  I would assume that considering how impressed I am with this 9, that either of the other two, the 7 or the 50 ANV would be some mighty fine cartridges to send many hours with. Their all up at that rarefied air level in performance.
BTW:   For reference Neo, I still prefer the AT 160 ML over the 150 ANV.  But just how thin must we split these hairs during these comparisons! 
Regards,

neobop

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Re: Clearaudio MM -- AT-95E and beyond
« Reply #1046 on: 23 Apr 2015, 01:56 pm »
Had another PC virus, kept me busy for a few days.  System restore to the rescue! 

"For reference Neo, I still prefer the AT 160 ML over the 150 ANV.  But just how thin must we split these hairs during these comparisons!"
You like that 490mH motor (160ML), although the 160 might have internal refinements the others lack, it's a 440/120 generator.  If you swap styli and use a boron/ML does it sound different? 

The Z1/SAS arrived.  I've only played a couple of records and so far so good.  I heard a big improvement right away.  I have a feeling this will live up to its billing.  Started at 47K/100pF (preamp capacitance) and have no desire to go to 60K, but too early to tell. 
neo

neobop

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Re: Clearaudio MM -- AT-95E and beyond
« Reply #1047 on: 29 Apr 2015, 01:03 pm »
This might be of interest to some people with mid-fi decks filled with clay.  After I sent the X1 back to Griff, I noticed the top of the PS-X50 arm bearing housing wasn't level with the platter.  I stopped using it for awhile until I could figure out what the problem was, and that was it.

The deck of the X50 is made of some kind of anti-vibration resin.  Apparently, the weight of the clay (I had it packed) made it sag in the middle. 
I removed a few pounds of clay, but left it in the corners and on either side.  It seems just as affective, but the plinth is still sagged in the middle.  The situation was remedied with a thin metal washer under one side of the arm base. 

I have a feeling the plinth won't go back to being flat.  It might be like an old dust cover that had heavy books piled on it for twenty years - permanent sag.  I happen to have an X50 parts deck with the plinth and electronics in tact and functional, but switching a semi is a big job. 

One of the reasons for talking about this, Griff sent the Z1 mounted in a standard headshell.  [Interesting mount BTW.  Screw heads on top with nylon washers.  Just under the shell is a spacer about 2mm high.  Then hex nuts on the bottom.]  Since it was already mounted I threw it on the now functional Sony.  That was before my last post.  Results were immediately obvious and since then I've played some of the same records with a Virtuoso/Jico SE and a 20SS.  I now have the Z1 ready to mount on the 100-S.  Sorry to take so long, but I've had a lot of extraneous problems, most of them with my PC.  I'm now awaiting delivery of a new one. 

Not quite ready to go into all the gory details.  Suffice it to say, the Z1/SAS seems top drawer.
neo


Halcro

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Re: Clearaudio MM -- AT-95E and beyond
« Reply #1048 on: 30 Apr 2015, 06:31 am »
Hi Neo,
It would be nice to say that experiences like the one you describe with the sagging plinth are sent to test us....and that we learn and become stronger from them..  :duh:
But sometimes it's just a pain... :oops:

Last week whilst I was removing the headshell containing my beloved Garrott P77/SAS from my new Dynavector DV507 MkII tonearm it slipped from my grasp and as I watched in seemingly slow-motion....the headshell/cartridge hit the shelf, bounced up and completed multiple turns as it tumbled to the polished granite floor below... :slap:
I stood in disbelief at first...my mind summarising the steps that would be required to procure a new SAS from Jico...and then I bent to retrieve the innocent victim of my clumsiness. In the less than bright light around my turntable....it appeared that I had indeed 'lost' the complete cantilever? :cry:
When I inspected with my loupe under bright light....I was astonished to see not only the cantilever in place and unbent, but also the stylus in apparently pristine condition. I couldn't believe it.. :o
With the two initial impacts (plus the several bounces) replaying in my mind, I thought here was proof of the existence of the great audio god we all know exists.. :P
Remounting the headshell into the Dyna arm I sat back to listen....and whilst I couldn't put my finger on anything in particular.....the sound was not quite what it had been.. :nono:
Perhaps the impact on the stone floor had jolted the coils or damaged something internally...?
I doubt that the Garrott can be replaced... :scratch:

neobop

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Re: Clearaudio MM -- AT-95E and beyond
« Reply #1049 on: 30 Apr 2015, 03:54 pm »
Oh Vnl, greatest of audio gods, you tease us so. 
A miracle for brother Halcro, only
to end in doubt and frustration. 

Woe to thee of ultimate aspirations.  In Olympus
only the gods reside.  Approach if you
must, but the journey is perilous.  I will
place boulders in your path and hurl carts from
the mountaintop, saith Vnl.

neo 

griffithds

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Re: Clearaudio MM -- AT-95E and beyond
« Reply #1050 on: 30 Apr 2015, 07:50 pm »
Halcro,

That is heart breaking news!    :cry 
At least you live where, if there is one to be found, you can find it.  I don't know if you have ever heard the A&R Crambridge version.  There is a similarity but you would never mistake it to be the Garrott.  I wonder if the current Garrott suppliers would attempt a repair?  Sure wouldn't hurt to ask. 
Regards,
Don

neobop

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Re: Clearaudio MM -- AT-95E and beyond
« Reply #1051 on: 30 Apr 2015, 09:09 pm »
Wondering if you guys have experience with these tables.
The TT-71 is identical to the 81 except no bidirectional speed correction or pitch control.  Ever hear it?

How about the Denon DP-80, thoughts and comparisons?

neo

Halcro

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Re: Clearaudio MM -- AT-95E and beyond
« Reply #1052 on: 1 May 2015, 04:18 am »
Hahaha Neo..... :lol:
Thanks for the sympathy Griff. You're right...I'm certainly in the best place to find another Garrott P77 but I haven't given up hope on the existing one. Seems that all my cartridges now sound 'odd' on the Dyna arm so it may be the arm that is at fault..?
There's a warranty on that... :thumb:

Neo, I believe that Griff has two TT-81 decks and I have both the TT-81 and TT-101. If I recall correctly, the Professor (Timeltel) has the TT-71 and Raul also bought one two years ago (despite already having a Denon DP-80), claiming it was better than both the TT-81 and TT-101...but just when and how he was able to audition all three decks together is a mystery.. :duel:
Nevertheless....my faith in Victor and their engineers convinces me that no excuses need to be made for the performance of the TT-71... :dance:
I hope you get one.... :bounce:

Regards

Halcro

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Re: Clearaudio MM -- AT-95E and beyond
« Reply #1053 on: 1 May 2015, 06:09 am »
Well there really is an audio god.... :lol:
I reset the Dyna tonearm geometry and ensured that both the armpod and turntable were dead level and whoa and behold....

The Garrott P77/SAS appears to back baby...


Fingers crossed for the future.... :beer:

neobop

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Re: Clearaudio MM -- AT-95E and beyond
« Reply #1054 on: 1 May 2015, 12:43 pm »
Good news!! 
These audio gods are quite vain.   Vnl must have realized we identified him by name and discussed his harsh and cruel treatment, which inspired him to relent.   You might think unfamiliarity with the new arm caused the confusion, but it might be just a convenient misdirection.   :wink:

Seriously, the 507 is an interesting arm.  Lewm and I were talking about his, on Agon. 



The tube connected to the back of the headshell must be level.  This seems inconvenient for SRA adjustment.  Please tell us your thoughts after you've had a chance to get familiar. 

Thanks for the info on the TT-71.  I saw a post by Mosin (of Saskia fame) where he said the old Denons were the only ones (DD) he could listen to.  I assumed it was the Denon AC motor and speed correction circuitry that made the difference.  The info about Raul and his opinion is most interesting.  I've been thinking of selling two or three tables and getting something more substantial.  Saw a DP80 motor unit for sale and it said it weighs 50 lbs.  Seems pretty substantial. 
neo


griffithds

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Re: Clearaudio MM -- AT-95E and beyond
« Reply #1055 on: 1 May 2015, 01:55 pm »
Halcro,

  Good to hear that the Garrott is back!!!   But perhaps this should be looked at as a 'heads up'!  It might be a good idea to start looking for a backup generator!  I've done that with my 'Grace' and I am now thinking about the Garrott.  Your possible loss 'got me a thinkin'!  :)
Regards

Halcro

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Re: Clearaudio MM -- AT-95E and beyond
« Reply #1056 on: 1 May 2015, 02:02 pm »
Griff,
I did have two bodies AND stylus assemblies but sent one to the Professor (together with a SAS) for him to experience.
I don't think he hears it quite the same as you and I do... :scratch:
Regards

neobop

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Re: Clearaudio MM -- AT-95E and beyond
« Reply #1057 on: 1 May 2015, 02:41 pm »
On another note, I was looking at replacement styli.  On another forum someone said the Jico HE stylus has a smaller profile (minor radius) than a Vivid line.  Not sure about this -
http://www.lpgear.com/product/ATN142LP.html

Says Vivid is 6/75 um = .2 x 3.0 mil. 

Here is a Shibata:
http://www.lpgear.com/product/ATN152MLPG.html

I think the hyperelliptical is also .2 mil with a small oval contact.  There is some rounding off when converting from um to mil.  .2 mil is also translated to 5um. 
When I was doing transplants for the Virtuoso, a nude ATN7V seemed a little better than the replacement styli.  That's a square shank on tapered aluminum.
neo


Halcro

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Re: Clearaudio MM -- AT-95E and beyond
« Reply #1058 on: 1 May 2015, 02:42 pm »
Griff,
What do you know about the Victor X-1/2E?
Regards

Halcro

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Re: Clearaudio MM -- AT-95E and beyond
« Reply #1059 on: 1 May 2015, 02:44 pm »
Neo,
How do you change the stylus on the Virtuoso....?