[matevana]

Rudolf,

That's very creative and not a bad idea at all. For now I'm married to the uniqueness of the circular side panels, but the side panels and main baffle can be removed in minutes so future upgrades can be easy!  I'll have to give it some thought. Thanks!

[pandpliers]

  Hi Just wondering what your thoughts were of replacing the usher 8955a with the dayton audio RS225-8.
Is it close enough to use?  It is certainly much more available and affordable.  I can't myself accurately decifer from the spec sheets if they are close to each other or not.  I just was looking up the ushers and found the daytons being spoken about for the same speaker design they were contemplating. Albeit they were not using either in ob.  They seemed to give it favorable reviews.  Let me know if it would work as a low cost alternative. 

[matevana]

  Hi Just wondering what your thoughts were of replacing the usher 8955a with the dayton audio RS225-8.
Is it close enough to use?  It is certainly much more available and affordable.  I can't myself accurately decifer from the spec sheets if they are close to each other or not.  I just was looking up the ushers and found the daytons being spoken about for the same speaker design they were contemplating. Albeit they were not using either in ob.  They seemed to give it favorable reviews.  Let me know if it would work as a low cost alternative.

Neither the Ushers nor the RS225's have T-S parameters that are particularly well suited to OB. The Ushers just happen to work well in this design, mostly due to their low moving mass coupled with minimal motor noise. This translates into less baffle vibration and the potential for additional noise. Aside from this,  it would be nice if their Qts was a little higher, and their excursion (xmax) a little longer. Both are reasonably efficient.

I haven't heard the Dayton RS225's but their parameters are fairly close to that of the 8955. You may also want to take a look at the Usher 8137a sold at PE. They are more money than the Daytons, but periodically go on sale. If you catch them on the DOTD (Deal of the day) you should grab two of them up. I got mine for $60 ea and they put out a surprising amount of quality bass for their size.

 

[matevana]

Completed a 2nd SL with the revised baffle shape.  Things are settling in so crossover changes are now few and far between. I can say the design images well. The sound stage is taller than the original Hestia and it's easier to pin point an instruments width and depth on stage. Unlike the original Hestia which are a bit laid back, the SL's are very revealing which can be both good and bad. Good CD's sound great as do HD music files. That being said, lesser quality recordings are not "masked" as they are with the original design. In short, they are a highly resolving version of the originals.





The circular side panels work very well within the context of the design. I knew I wanted an H-Frame but didn't want speakers that looked too heavy in the Living Room. They definitely appear less assuming than a cube of similar dimensions. I also feel like they don't photograph well.  Those who have seen them in person comment that they are much more attractive then they are in pictures.  I suppose this is true for some people as well. 

[JohnR]

Looking great 

Just curious about distance to the wall. Have you tried them further away?

[matevana]

Looking great 

Just curious about distance to the wall. Have you tried them further away?

At this point, all of my listening has been done with the back of the drivers 36" from the rear wall.  The left speaker is also 50" from the side wall. Surprisingly there are few adverse reflections as most of the surfaces are hard. The room would be categorized as lively. The SL's each sit on a 12" x 10" carpet tile with jute backing. There is a 4' x 6' wool area rug about 6 feet in front of the SL's, centered between the two.

Bass response is plentiful, tight and articulate. Lower mids are exceptionally good. The Ushers sit 1" above floor level. All drivers are time aligned based on the location of their acoustic centers.  Listening to fast acoustic bass runs, every inflection seems to be audible and does not lag. So far, so good.

 

[zmyrna]

an aesthetic suggestion:
you may cover the bass section with speaker cloth to make it look like a cylinder (leaving the circular wood panels exposed).
speakers on wheels... kind of look.

[matevana]

an aesthetic suggestion:
you may cover the bass section with speaker cloth to make it look like a cylinder (leaving the circular wood panels exposed).
speakers on wheels... kind of look.

LOL... at one point I toyed with the idea of allowing the side panels to turn freely, so they could be rolled away from the wall while listening and then rolled back against the wall when idle. Too much of a logistical issue with vibration, etc.

I really don't mind the exposed look of OB... kind of industrial.  I even like the look of exposed wiring and the crossover components on the rear panel. I think it adds to the aesthetics. There's some pretty cool muscle car accessories that are designed to neatly route spark plug wires that can also be used to channel speaker wire down the back of an OB  design.  So many possibilities.

[matevana]

Here's a better perspective of the SL's in their listening room showing approximate distance to room boundaries.




Wider view showing digital sever in adjoining room. I plan to get rid of my CD player entirely once all libraries have been converted to lossless files. In addition to my laptop setup which supports hi res music files, I also use an iPod classic with a pure digital tap that plays 16/44.1 files through a Schiit Bifrost DAC. Weighs a few ounces and holds 160GB of actual CD quality sound (About 4000 songs). The key to getting great sound from an iPod is tapping it's digital signal and bypassing the internal DAC with a good quality outboard DAC. In blind tests, I can not tell the difference between that and my CD player. The convenience and playlist capabilities far outweigh any CD player.

The chain looks something like this: (Toslink cable between Digital Dock and DAC)

iPod Classic -> Pure i-20 Digital Dock -> Schiit Bifrost DAC -> Crown D-75a Power Amp  -> Hestia SL's



 

[matevana]

I'm really impressed with the ability to extract bit perfect digital audio files from an iPod. My audio rig has been condensed to all of three components. The iPod sits on a Pure i-20 digital dock. The dock extracts pit perfect information from lossless files (ALAC) from the iPod in either 16 or 24 bit depths. The sample rate can be 44.1kHz (Redbook CD) or 48kHz (higher). The iPod will not support anything beyond that at this time, but the sound is equal to or better than "CD Quality".

The dock then passes the information to an external DAC (Schiit Bifrost) via optical cable, where its converted into an analog signal and fed to a Crown broadcast quality power amp. The iPod dock acts as a master volume control with full remote functionality... and not just cue and review, but playlists, genres, artists, multiple shuffle/repeat, etc... way more than typical CD functionality. And unlike Windows based media servers, the iPod does one thing so all of its processing power is focused on music, which helps to reduce jitter.

The crown power amp feeds the top three drivers on the Hestia SL's. The headphone out serves as a variable line out and drives a pair of Yung plate amps for the lower drivers. Everything stays nice and balanced when the volume is increased or decreased. As an added bonus, the iPod can provide digital equalization, though none is employed in my situation.

Here's a closer look at the set-up:

[richardcooper2k]

Hope the amp driving the headphone socket is good at low frequencies then ! 

[matevana]

Hope the amp driving the headphone socket is good at low frequencies then ! 

Surprisingly it's quite good. And I'm not just talking about adequate levels to drive the Yung plate amps properly, but sound quality as well. It compares favorably to a variable line out in this set-up. I had reservations as well, but I can assure you it works in this case. The Crown D series amps are considered broadcast quality and have a great rep in the industry. They are also a bit unusual in that the speaker level outputs are not automatically muted when the TRS plug is inserted, and the gain controls from channels 1 and 2 simultaneously drive the gain on headphone L & R respectively. While the impedance may be a bit funky, the Yungs seem to have no problem coping and producing high quality bass.

[sjhomey]

Ed

Found all the drivers and now I'm starting to think about construction details. I am wondering why I couldn't extend the bottom baffle up past the side panels and bolt the top baffle to the front or even back of that, with appropriate anti vibration. That would eliminate the third middle panel. What am I missing? Messing with the time alignment?

Peter

[matevana]

Ed

Found all the drivers and now I'm starting to think about construction details. I am wondering why I couldn't extend the bottom baffle up past the side panels and bolt the top baffle to the front or even back of that, with appropriate anti vibration. That would eliminate the third middle panel. What am I missing? Messing with the time alignment?

Peter

Hey Peter,

The lower baffle is offset so the circular side panels have two attachment points, about two inches apart. If the baffle was one piece, all the mechanical points would be inline and the side panels would flex. Splitting the baffle that way makes the entire subwoofer carriage rigid and adds integrity to the upper baffle when they are joined. 

[sjhomey]

Hey Ed

Have you kept your sketchup file of the upper baffle? If so would you consider posting it?

I downloaded the basic sketchup. Cool program. Takes some time to figure out, but I found I needed a few more measurements to lay out the baffle. What is the distance from the bottom of the baffle to the bottom of the lower midrange, the ten incher? I think with that measurement I can work my way up. Also, what width is the lower baffle? From the photos I guess you are leaving about a half inch on either side of the Usher to the edges of the baffle. Close?

Are you using the basic sketchup or the pro? Did you design in 3D or use Camera>Standard Views>Top to draw in 2D?

Peter

[matevana]

Hey Peter,

I'm excited that you got the SL bug. So far a bunch of people have built the original, but to my knowledge you're the first to try the SL. Please consider starting a page (or use mine) to document your build. I think a lot of people would like that!

I'm using the non-pro Sketchup, latest version. Top view is correct in 2D. If you send me your email, I can send you the .SKP files that you can use. One of the neat things about SketchUp is that you can print a 1:1 ratio template. You do this over several pieces of paper and then cut and tape the template together. This is very helpful in the SL's case since the baffle stock is round. You can overlay the template and trace cut lines on the wood stock, etc.

We're you able to find all of the drivers OK?

[sjhomey]

Ed

Thank you for your help. I very much like the Hestias and find them to be very articulate. I had a great time building them and want to try something more. My curiosity got the better of me and I want to see if the SLs are really better than the originals. And it doesn't cost a fortune to find out.

I was able to find all the drivers, although if took some time. The Celestions from PE have been up and down in price. As low as $5. or $6., I bought them for $12., and they are now at $19. I was lucky enough to find the Vifas and the Usher 8955a pair on the DIYAudio Swap forum. A guy was selling both from an abandoned project. Paid $210. for all four. I don't know what the Ushers retailed for originally, but I was satisfied with the price. I also have seen the Ushers listed on Ebay a couple of times. The last time, a few weeks ago, a new pair was listed for $160. They still seem to be around and available with patience.

As far as posting my build on your page you might have second thoughts when you hear what I am contemplating. I went to Lowe's to buy the round 5/4 tabletops to use for the side panels and top baffle and I was not happy with the pieces available. They were pine with lots of knots and even some split boards and marked stain grade. I don't think so. I wanted to give myself the option of staining the pieces as I did on the Hestias, so I bought the 1" edge glued panels I used before. I don't know the wood, but they are clear and are some type of softwood.

I'd very much appreciate your feedback, but my plan has evolved into cutting a dado in the 1"(finished thickness 3/4") side panels and let the lower baffle into them and two more dados in the feet and let the side panels into them and glue the whole thing together. For the lower baffle I'm thinking stair tread which is 5/4 so I would get a full 1" there. The whole thing would in effect be an I beam with a couple of flanges at one end. I think it would be very stiff, even though I would eliminate the mid baffle, with its offset advantage. I would fasten the top baffle to the bottom with sorbathane spacers and perhaps a stiffener of some sort and use a single sheet of the 1" for the top baffle. Since that baffle is so relatively small and the drivers would act as stiffeners I think the slightly thinner panel would work.

Any thoughts? If it all doesn't work, I could rebuild without a whole lot of additional cost.

Peter

[matevana]

Hey Peter,

I sent you the SketchUp file for the top baffle. You can use the measurement tool to get the drivers center point relative to the bottom of the baffle. Note that the drawing shows drivers actual diameter and  not the cut-outs, but obviously the center point is the same. You can also use the same tool to show baffle width at the top, bottom and widest point.

You did very well picking up the drivers. I bought several of the Celestion Neos at six bucks a piece. A very articulate and flat mid, provided you use them in their comfort zone, and an absolute steal at that price. The Neo magnet alone would cost more than what I paid for the entire driver.

Your baffle idea should be fine. Try to keep the tweeter around 37.5" from the floor and the others drivers relative to that, or you may have to tweak the crossover values a bit.

Oddly enough my Lowes carries two versions of the same circular stock with the same SKU numbers. One is made by Allwood and the other by a company called Elliotis. I forget which is which, but one is pine and the other is not. Both are relatively soft but the later has fewer or no knots and the board joining is much cleaner.  The good news is the last time I was there, they had a new shipment of the superior type, so I'm hoping they were in the process of switching suppliers.

Ed   

[6thplanet]

I really dig your final design, thats frickin cool looking. I bet it sounds great! 

[matevana]

I really dig your final design, thats frickin cool looking. I bet it sounds great! 

Thanks for the comment 6thplanet! There is very little I might do differently, after living with them for about 4 months now.