Something new that sounds incredible

Danny Richie · « **Reply #80 on:** 22 May 2014, 05:10 pm »

Here is what I am thinking guys...

1) How about I release a MMTMM kit with a CNC cut flat pack (baffle, sides, etc) and put a base underneath to allow it to be set on anything. Then just run a brace across the top from the short wing to the long wing to brace it and make the whole structure solid.

Then you guys can paint it, veneer it, or do anything you want with it to make it look however you want.

You will have to set it on some type of a woofer tower that will get the tweeter to ear level and that will play up to 200Hz. That can be just about anything and you can power the lower woofers with a cheap amp from PE. Or it can be either of our 8" or 12" servo subs. So you can go all out with it or build it on the cheap. Just remember than a 200Hz wavelength is about 5.5 feet long. So whatever you cross the MMTMM to needs to be within two to three feet of it.

My guess is that all drivers, crossover parts, CNC flat packs, etc could come in around $800, and for sure no more than $900 for everything. That is quite the bargain.

2) Secondly, I'd like to try a version with nine of the LGK drivers below the MMTMM. With the short wing getting deeper below the MMTMM section I think I can get the low end response down to between 100Hz and 150Hz crossover point. You can again cross the lower end to any sub you want and each sub (left and right) will need to be within four to five feet away max.

This would be a nice looking thin tower. The price would be in then $1,600 to $1,700 range. This will include a flat pack so keep that in mind.

In case you're wondering the nine LGK's will have about the same surface area as two 6.5" woofers. Considering that they would only play down into the 100Hz to 150Hz range then that is a lot of surface area to handle down to that range.

3) The full array as mentioned before with eight LGK's above and eight below the MMTMM. Response should get down to 100Hz or so and again you can cross them over in the lower ranges to anything.

ebag4 · « **Reply #81 on:** 22 May 2014, 05:34 pm »

Quote from: nickd on 22 May 2014, 02:53 pm

Ebag, is that drawing based on 8's or 12's in the angle top sub section? If the scale is close, it looks very nice. I don't know how much the wing angle has to do with driver reinforcement in the lower octaves? It would be nice if it that angle could be tweaked a bit for aesthetics.

Hi Nick! That is based on the 12" servos, everything is to scale with the exception of the NEO3 and the LGKs, I guessed at their size as 2"x3" and 4" respectively. The upper baffle is to scale at 4.5"x22".

Best,
Ed

Danny Richie · « **Reply #82 on:** 22 May 2014, 05:36 pm »

Oooops, I missed this one.

Quote from: Jonathon Janusz on 22 May 2014, 12:31 am

Danny, of the "huge pile of LGKs" designs, maybe the one that just runs the line of drivers to the floor might be best? If the LGKs were put together in a line all the way up and down, would the output radiation pattern (line source from the woofers vs. point source on the single tweeter) muck with things at all? I'm just thinking about some of the past discussions regarding Fred's budget line array projects built with similar driver layouts.

It's still a point source from top to bottom. Acoustic centers are all the same. Radiation patterns would start to change in the lower section (16 LGK's) if they played up higher. The 200Hz and down range gets pretty omni so the length is not an issue. It would be more of an issue if the rest of the speaker were a line source and the lower woofer just a point source.

Quote

How would the 8" servos sound with a similarly angled U-frame baffle to the LGK array? Keeping the same baffle angles, even if there has to be a step in there to step down to the upper baffle width, might make it more aesthetically pleasing than a transition from a square frame to the upper baffle?

That would be awesome.

Quote

Using the LSX as example, in person and finished nicely, the big outer wing really makes the speaker look similar to a traditional box speaker until you are almost looking directly at the short side, and the short wing should neatly hide the "uglies" of the back of the drivers until you're at a crazy viewing angle from the inside of the speaker. If you need any help in the convincing, check out some of the pics from RMAF last year; they might help.

Very true. Everyone should read that if they haven't.

ebag4 · « **Reply #83 on:** 22 May 2014, 05:46 pm »

Danny,
You mentioned that the LGKs and NEO3 are time aligned. Would we be better off aligning the LGK baffle with the baffle board for the subs? This would put the LGK baffle in the middle of an H frame, but then we have a reflective surface directly under the bottom LGK. What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks,
Ed

Danny Richie · « **Reply #84 on:** 22 May 2014, 06:21 pm »

Quote from: ebag4 on 22 May 2014, 05:46 pm

Danny,
You mentioned that the LGKs and NEO3 are time aligned. Would we be better off aligning the LGK baffle with the baffle board for the subs? This would put the LGK baffle in the middle of an H frame, then we have a reflective surface directly under the bottom LGK. What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks,
Ed

The wavelengths at 200Hz is pretty long. A few inches of movement is hardly even a few degrees of phase rotation. And you do have a phase control on the servo amps. So that makes dialing it in real easy.

NeilT · « **Reply #85 on:** 22 May 2014, 09:53 pm »

How about a kit without the flat pack / price?

Thanks
Neil

mlundy57 · « **Reply #86 on:** 22 May 2014, 10:00 pm »

Quote from: Danny Richie on 22 May 2014, 05:10 pm

Here is what I am thinking guys...

1) How about I release a MMTMM kit with a CNC cut flat pack (baffle, sides, etc) and put a base underneath to allow it to be set on anything. Then just run a brace across the top from the short wing to the long wing to brace it and make the whole structure solid.

Then you guys can paint it, veneer it, or do anything you want with it to make it look however you want.

You will have to set it on some type of a woofer tower that will get the tweeter to ear level and that will play up to 200Hz. That can be just about anything and you can power the lower woofers with a cheap amp from PE. Or it can be either of our 8" or 12" servo subs. So you can go all out with it or build it on the cheap. Just remember than a 200Hz wavelength is about 5.5 feet long. So whatever you cross the MMTMM to needs to be within two to three feet of it.

My guess is that all drivers, crossover parts, CNC flat packs, etc could come in around $800, and for sure no more than $900 for everything. That is quite the bargain.

2) Secondly, I'd like to try a version with nine of the LGK drivers below the MMTMM. With the short wing getting deeper below the MMTMM section I think I can get the low end response down to between 100Hz and 150Hz crossover point. You can again cross the lower end to any sub you want and each sub (left and right) will need to be within four to five feet away max.

This would be a nice looking thin tower. The price would be in then $1,600 to $1,700 range. This will include a flat pack so keep that in mind.

In case you're wondering the nine LGK's will have about the same surface area as two 6.5" woofers. Considering that they would only play down into the 100Hz to 150Hz range then that is a lot of surface area to handle down to that range.

3) The full array as mentioned before with eight LGK's above and eight below the MMTMM. Response should get down to 100Hz or so and again you can cross them over in the lower ranges to anything.

I'll have a number 1 combo with an 8" servo sub (or two)

Any cabinet plans available for both two and three driver versions for the 8" OB servo subs?

Danny Richie · « **Reply #87 on:** 22 May 2014, 10:53 pm »

Quote from: NeilT on 22 May 2014, 09:53 pm

How about a kit without the flat pack / price?

Thanks
Neil

Neil, the flat pack won't be that much money and it is very important that it is made just as tested. I really needs to be included.

SetterP · « **Reply #88 on:** 23 May 2014, 12:35 am »

Danny-

I'd be in for a MMTMM kit.

That's right in my wheelhouse, and coupled with a pair of 8" woofers I think you would hard to beat. I'm a fan of the LGK driver!

mlundy57 · « **Reply #89 on:** 23 May 2014, 01:31 am »

Danny,

In your option 1) MMTMM, any idea what the tweeter height will be so we could figure out how tall a sub tower or stand would need to be?

Mike

MarvinTheMartian · « **Reply #90 on:** 23 May 2014, 01:33 am »

From post#1 of this thread....
"So the short wing is split to not enclose the tweeter. The split short wing worked great."
How about a comparable opening in the big wing?
A 3" radius half moon cut out might open the neo OB effect even more. Just think'n.....

For once, on the similar note ....
Would tapering the wings narrower toward the tweeter "help" transitioning around the crossover frequency?

Send more Brains : ) ... Shawn

ebag4 · « **Reply #91 on:** 23 May 2014, 01:43 am »

Quote from: mlundy57 on 23 May 2014, 01:31 am

Danny,

In your option 1) MMTMM, any idea what the tweeter height will be so we could figure out how tall a sub tower or stand would need to be?

Mike

Danny said the middle of the tweeter would be about 11" when a base is used.

ebag4 · « **Reply #92 on:** 23 May 2014, 01:49 am »

Now all I have to do is figure out how to build it!

mlundy57 · « **Reply #93 on:** 23 May 2014, 01:56 am »

Quote from: ebag4 on 23 May 2014, 01:43 am

Danny said the middle of the tweeter would be about 11" when a base is used.

Thanks

mlundy57 · « **Reply #94 on:** 23 May 2014, 02:02 am »

If using three of the 8" servo subs, would it be better to have all three drivers facing forward or to have the middle one facing to the rear like the three driver tower with the LSX?

Mike

Jonathon Janusz · « **Reply #95 on:** 23 May 2014, 02:06 am »

Ed, that drawing looks nice! When you see the baffle setup in person, I really think you'll be surprised in that the "vanity panel" on the inside isn't really needed to have the whole look good.

My only other point to mention is your design on the woofer section and the cylindrical frames. I can't remember right now exactly what it was, but there is something about using a cylindrical h-frame for OB that I am vaguely remembering was a not so good idea. For what it is worth, I did cylinders once with a setup of the servo subs in sealed boxes. If I'm remembering right (been a long while ago now), the result was a very narrow peak (or null; can't remember which) but that spike in the response was REALLY bad. I think it had something to do with the math relating the diameter vs. the length to determine the resonant frequency.

If I can remember where I read up on the math of this, I'll post it up later.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #96 on:** 23 May 2014, 02:07 am »

Quote from: MarvinTheMartian on 23 May 2014, 01:33 am

From post#1 of this thread....
"So the short wing is split to not enclose the tweeter. The split short wing worked great."
How about a comparable opening in the big wing?
A 3" radius half moon cut out might open the neo OB effect even more. Just think'n.....

For once, on the similar note ....
Would tapering the wings narrower toward the tweeter "help" transitioning around the crossover frequency?

Send more Brains : ) ... Shawn

The reason for the opening in the short wing is to keep from boxing the tweeter in. If not then it creates a cavity resonance. Having a wing on just one side has no effect.

And a hole in the long wing would have an effect on the LGK's.

The short wings above and below can have a taper to and from. It will have little effect though.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #97 on:** 23 May 2014, 02:08 am »

Quote from: mlundy57 on 23 May 2014, 02:02 am

If using three of the 8" servo subs, would it be better to have all three drivers facing forward or to have the middle one facing to the rear like the three driver tower with the LSX?

Mike

Ideally an H frame will be best and flipping the center one around helps in several ways. It's a tougher sale though as people expect to see the drivers and think that it has to sound better because it looks better.

mlundy57 · « **Reply #98 on:** 23 May 2014, 02:15 am »

What would the dimensions be for a three driver H frame with the center drive reversed using the servo 8's?

ebag4 · « **Reply #99 on:** 23 May 2014, 02:20 am »

Quote from: Jonathon Janusz on 23 May 2014, 02:06 am

Ed, that drawing looks nice! When you see the baffle setup in person, I really think you'll be surprised in that the "vanity panel" on the inside isn't really needed to have the whole look good.

My only other point to mention is your design on the woofer section and the cylindrical frames. I can't remember right now exactly what it was, but there is something about using a cylindrical h-frame for OB that I am vaguely remembering was a not so good idea. For what it is worth, I did cylinders once with a setup of the servo subs in sealed boxes. If I'm remembering right (been a long while ago now), the result was a very narrow peak (or null; can't remember which) but that spike in the response was REALLY bad. I think it had something to do with the math relating the diameter vs. the length to determine the resonant frequency.

If I can remember where I read up on the math of this, I'll post it up later.

Thanks Jonathon, now that you mention it I believe I may have read something about that as well, I suppose if the cylinder we large enough it may not be an issue. I would likely have to laminate a lot of circles to make it work anyway, lots of waste.

I initially added the "vanity panel" to give the other side something to brace to although I doubt the narrow frame would offer much support.