ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !

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wilsynet

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Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #80 on: 28 Dec 2009, 01:37 am »
I certainly expect that the designer of the equipment to know if the electrical characteristics change over time. If the electrical characteristics don't change, any perceived "break-in" is in your perception. No Kool-aid required, simple engineering principles.

Which engineering principle is being used?  The last time I took an EE course, I didn't see "Principal of Designer Knowing Change of Electrical Characteristics Over Time" as one of the guiding principles of the field.

You can certainly design and build good equipment and not know everything about it.  Some very important discoveries and inventions have been made largely by accident, and sometimes quite in advance of the science necessary to provide full understanding and comprehension.

If you really believe that the designer should know, then I'll kindly point you to the following article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

which is a well known logical fallacy.  I would suggest that Frank's opinion carries considerable weight, but it wouldn't constitute proof, and I wouldn't substitute it in the place of engineering principles, whatever it is that they happen to be.

I have no opinion of break-in phenomenon with respect to electronics.  I just didn't care for the argument being made here.

« Last Edit: 28 Dec 2009, 05:55 am by wilsynet »

roscoeiii

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #81 on: 28 Dec 2009, 03:38 am »
Why don't we get back to the discussion of the DAC? Other threads are better places for another discussion of burn-in. I look forward to hearing accounts of the new DAC, whenever the owners feel like giving them. And I look forward to any updates if/when the owners' impressions change.

trebejo

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #82 on: 28 Dec 2009, 04:14 am »
I certainly look forward to a good little review of this new dac. An SS circuit that flat out beats a tube transimpedance circuit? Damn.

It's funny how an announcement for a new DAC can lead to so many sundry side conversations. That tells me that the people interested in this item are also in general interested on getting "best sound"... and either have some expectation that this piece might get them there, or have already had such an experience from an AVA link in their audio chain.

I guess the combination of "don't screw it up" and "no B.S. marketing" put this brand a couple of standard deviations away from the norm, in a way that makes the end result more musical.

pardales

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #83 on: 28 Dec 2009, 07:25 am »
I certainly look forward to a good little review of this new dac. An SS circuit that flat out beats a tube transimpedance circuit? Damn.

It's funny how an announcement for a new DAC can lead to so many sundry side conversations. That tells me that the people interested in this item are also in general interested on getting "best sound"... and either have some expectation that this piece might get them there, or have already had such an experience from an AVA link in their audio chain.

I guess the combination of "don't screw it up" and "no B.S. marketing" put this brand a couple of standard deviations away from the norm, in a way that makes the end result more musical.

Exactly. That is why I ordered without hesitation.
 

pardales

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #84 on: 28 Dec 2009, 07:26 am »
Why don't we get back to the discussion of the DAC? Other threads are better places for another discussion of burn-in. I look forward to hearing accounts of the new DAC, whenever the owners feel like giving them. And I look forward to any updates if/when the owners' impressions change.

Amen.   :bowdown:

avahifi

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #85 on: 28 Dec 2009, 07:36 pm »
I certainly hope so.  Sorry for helping start the growling.   :cry:

Frank

smargo

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Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #86 on: 28 Dec 2009, 08:58 pm »
I certainly hope so.  Sorry for helping start the growling.   :cry:

Frank

Frank

So far the dac sounds delicious - i hate to say this but since thursday it has improved from being really good to being really really good - just wanted to say that so far

 ill report more on wed or thurs - when i have more hours on it - much to the chagrin of the anti hours people. (am i allowed to say that here)

thanks for your promptness (in getting me the unit before christmas)
stu




oneinthepipe

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Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #87 on: 28 Dec 2009, 11:07 pm »
Stu:

Happy to hear that you like the DAC.   Frank will be converting my Insight SL into a Vision DAC/Pre combo..

srb

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #88 on: 29 Dec 2009, 12:34 am »
So far the dac sounds delicious - i hate to say this but since thursday it has improved from being really good to being really really good - just wanted to say that so far

I love delicious.  I'm glad Frank didn't get the grief that dB Labs did on their new DAC introduction (which I contributed to), but then he did disclose DAC chip and sampling rate information right off the bat, and had a proven track record as well.
 
ill report more on wed or thurs - when i have more hours on it - much to the chagrin of the anti hours people. (am i allowed to say that here)

Whatever the reason for more hours, we can all only benefit from longer listening and thoughtful reporting.  We'll all be patient.
 
Steve

plaf26

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #89 on: 29 Dec 2009, 03:53 pm »
Basic Vision DAC and Insight 240 Double Die (in my often recycled ST-150) are on the way! :dance:

jcoat007

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #90 on: 31 Dec 2009, 08:13 pm »
Happy New Year everyone!!!!

I haven't read through all 5 pages of this thread, so I apologize if this has been covered. 

What are you guys using for a transport? 

Is anyone using this with a Wadia 170i? 

Thanks

Steve

plaf26

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #91 on: 31 Dec 2009, 09:23 pm »
I'm just using and old Sony DVD player (see below), although my old Philips CD recorder (also see below) works fine, too.  Happy New Year! :jester:

plaf26

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #92 on: 31 Dec 2009, 09:32 pm »
Oh, THAT kind of transport (I just looked up the Wadia 170i).  I misunderstood, sorry.  I would think the AVA DAC would tend to magnify all the flaws of the MP3 (and similar) lossy formats.  I don't see how the Wadia (or anything else) can put back in what the recording codec took out.  I haven't fooled around with Apple lossless, so I can't comment on that.

jcoat007

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #93 on: 31 Dec 2009, 10:24 pm »
I was asking about traditional transports like CD/DVD players as well as the Wadia.  The Wadia bypasses the i-pod DAC and gives you the original digital information.  I have only used the Apple Lossless in i-tunes and on my i-pod so I am curious about this. 

In my experience the quality of the transport plays a huge part in the quality of the the sound that ultimately comes out of the DAC.  From my meager understanding most of the enhancements from the transport have to do with the reduction of jitter.  The intriguing part of the Wadia is that the jitter issue is reduced substantially because you have romved the main cause of jitter which is the CD itself.

Anyway, just curious what everyone is using. 

Thanks

Steve

charmerci

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #94 on: 1 Jan 2010, 10:20 am »

In my experience the quality of the transport plays a huge part in the quality of the the sound that ultimately comes out of the DAC.  From my meager understanding most of the enhancements from the transport have to do with the reduction of jitter.
Thanks

Steve

Sorry but you have come to wrong forum.  :nono:  In the Van Alstine World, these are non-issues.

Why? Unfortunately, I don't know. I'll have to leave that to those in the technical know-how department.

My guess would be that with jitter, you're dealing with timing differences on the micro-second level which you never be able to hear.
« Last Edit: 1 Jan 2010, 01:39 pm by charmerci »

pardales

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #95 on: 1 Jan 2010, 01:36 pm »

In my experience the quality of the transport plays a huge part in the quality of the the sound that ultimately comes out of the DAC.  From my meager understanding most of the enhancements from the transport have to do with the reduction of jitter.
Thanks

Steve

Sorry but you have come to wrong forum.  :nono:  In the Van Alstine World, these are non-issues.

Why? Unfortunately, I don't know. I'll have to leave that to those in the technical know-how department.

My guess would be that with jitter, you're dealing with timing differences on the micro-second which you never be able to hear.

There are extensive discussions of jitter/transports/computer audio at various places on this site. The Empirical Audio Forum/Discless Circle are two such places. Whether the folks in this forum are interested in discussing it is another matter.

Wayner

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #96 on: 1 Jan 2010, 01:50 pm »
I believe that a quality transport is just good sense, but it doesn't have to be expensive. Most transports these days are built either by Sony, Philips or a small handful of other folks. Since the internal DAC is bypassed, the only thing used is the transport mechanism and function controls of the CD player.

Wayner  :D

smargo

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Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #97 on: 1 Jan 2010, 05:31 pm »
Happy New Year everyone!!!!

I haven't read through all 5 pages of this thread, so I apologize if this has been covered. 

What are you guys using for a transport? 

Is anyone using this with a Wadia 170i? 

Thanks

Steve

i am using the wadia - alternatively with a bryston bcd-1 - the wadia with an ipod classic - sounds very good - if the recording is good to begin with - same can be said with the bryston

the bryston so far - when it is playing - seperates instrumental lines - incredibly -(to die from) - the ipod-wadia combo doesn't do that as well - but also sounds generally fantastic

ill report more later today or tomorrow - when i have more time - so far the dac (with approx 168 hours) - is really starting to become very musical - not that it has ever sounded less than great since i have had it - But Im an hours and breakin guy - and the musicality (which is the most important thing to me) - is starting to rear its beautiful head!

happy new year - talk to you later today or tom

smargo


jcoat007

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #98 on: 1 Jan 2010, 05:33 pm »
Didn't mean to hit a nerve.  Just thought I would ask what transports people are using.  If you are using a stock CD/DVD player from Sony/Phillips or whatever, then my guess is that the new Vision DAC would be a huge improvement.  That is because the internal DAC that you currently have is of lower quality and a higher quality DAC will give you an improvement.  Pretty basic. 

A good transport can and ususally does improve the ability of the DAC to do its job.  If the Van Alstine products work outside of the norm than I apologize.

smargo - thank you for the info on the Wadia.  I look forward to hearing how the DAC continues to improve.  I am an hours and break-in guy as well. 

Cheers and Happy New Year to All!!!!

DSK

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #99 on: 2 Jan 2010, 03:57 am »
If it is anything like the AVA Ultra DAC then it certainly needs some hours on it. The Ultra was somewhat flat and unexciting out of the box, vocals were buried back in the mix. I was very disappointed and thought I'd made a big mistake. I pulled it from my rig and let it play in my headphone setup for approx 160 hours. When I put it back in the main rig it was a different DAC and sounds fantastic, very open, dimensional, natural, organic ....

I look forward to the impressions of the early adopters, especially those with the Ultra, as I would fear replacing the tube DAC with a SS one without thorough comparison. However, the Vision does sound promising and I'm watching with interest ...