Are we on the verge of a SS revolution???

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bavmike

Re: Are we on the verge of a SS revolution???
« Reply #60 on: 12 Mar 2018, 05:21 pm »
I agree, I've grown to dislike every D amp I've tried.

And I prefer "value oriented" over "cheapskate"!  :lol:

You need to get out more Dave :)

OzarkTom

Re: Are we on the verge of a SS revolution???
« Reply #61 on: 12 Mar 2018, 05:21 pm »
If I knew DIY, I would get this Icepower amp module to get my feet wet. 100wpc is all I need to drive my system. I am a cheapskate also.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bang-Olufsen-ICEpower-100AS2-NEW-HIGH-PERFORMANCE-ICEpower-module-2-x-100w/222847440722?hash=item33e2be1752:g:6oAAAOSwyfRai3Hy

bavmike

Re: Are we on the verge of a SS revolution???
« Reply #62 on: 12 Mar 2018, 05:27 pm »
If I knew DIY, I would get this Icepower amp module to get my feet wet. 100wpc is all I need to drive my system. I am a cheapskate also.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bang-Olufsen-ICEpower-100AS2-NEW-HIGH-PERFORMANCE-ICEpower-module-2-x-100w/222847440722?hash=item33e2be1752:g:6oAAAOSwyfRai3Hy

Wow great price!

wushuliu

Re: Are we on the verge of a SS revolution???
« Reply #63 on: 12 Mar 2018, 07:01 pm »
I thought Ncore was the revolution. Or was it Hypex UcD. No, wait, definitely the T-amp was the revolution...

Are we there yet?



OzarkTom

Re: Are we on the verge of a SS revolution???
« Reply #64 on: 12 Mar 2018, 07:04 pm »
I thought Ncore was the revolution. Or was it Hypex UcD. No, wait, definitely the T-amp was the revolution...

Are we there yet?

Just 5 more minutes.

DaveC113

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Re: Are we on the verge of a SS revolution???
« Reply #65 on: 12 Mar 2018, 07:38 pm »
You need to get out more Dave :)

Yup, yup... I'm lagging!  :lol:

I don't doubt I'll end up agreeing w/you and Wind Chaser... 

mcgsxr

Re: Are we on the verge of a SS revolution???
« Reply #66 on: 12 Mar 2018, 07:51 pm »
I have used amps with differing topology over the years.  In many cases I was able to find excellent sound.

I don't personally believe that 1 topology is the best, but I do enjoy most of them.

I am currently using old school Class A/B SS, but have used nearly every other topology at some point over the years.

Tyson

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Re: Are we on the verge of a SS revolution???
« Reply #67 on: 12 Mar 2018, 07:57 pm »
The truth is that recording still lag quite a bit in being able to capture an acoustic event accurately/correctly.  Even the very best recordings are pretty far away from sitting in front of live musicians with acoustic instruments in a good space.  The better our playback systems get, the more these inherent flaws in the original recordings are revealed.  It was this realization that got me off the "accuracy/transparency at all costs!" and more toward the "Hey, am I actually able to enjoy the majority of my recordings, despite their flaws".

One day I hope that this doesn't have to be a choice, that you can have both at the same time.  I do think the gap is narrowing but we're not quite there yet.  Hopefully this latest round of Class D amps gets us closer. 

bavmike

Re: Are we on the verge of a SS revolution???
« Reply #68 on: 12 Mar 2018, 08:01 pm »
The truth is that recording still lag quite a bit in being able to capture an acoustic event accurately/correctly.  Even the very best recordings are pretty far away from sitting in front of live musicians with acoustic instruments in a good space.  The better our playback systems get, the more these inherent flaws in the original recordings are revealed.  It was this realization that got me off the "accuracy/transparency at all costs!" and more toward the "Hey, am I actually able to enjoy the majority of my recordings, despite their flaws".

One day I hope that this doesn't have to be a choice, that you can have both at the same time.  I do think the gap is narrowing but we're not quite there yet.  Hopefully this latest round of Class D amps gets us closer.

This is where quality DAC's and digital filters come into play. I guess this needs to be the next revolution. Affordable quality DAC's.

Folsom

Re: Are we on the verge of a SS revolution???
« Reply #69 on: 12 Mar 2018, 08:25 pm »
If by "implementation" you mean a fancy case...  :lol:

Bel Canto is likely to change some thing, and build their own inputs. Their flagship stuff certainly went overboard on that. (each amp has a DAC in it too)

Freo-1

Re: Are we on the verge of a SS revolution???
« Reply #70 on: 12 Mar 2018, 09:41 pm »
This is where quality DAC's and digital filters come into play. I guess this needs to be the next revolution. Affordable quality DAC's.


This is where Devialet is ahead of the curve.  It takes inputs from both analog and digital sources, performs DSP with Speaker Active Matching (SAM), and provides periodic software updates to stay up to date. 

bavmike

Re: Are we on the verge of a SS revolution???
« Reply #71 on: 12 Mar 2018, 09:57 pm »

This is where Devialet is ahead of the curve.  It takes inputs from both analog and digital sources, performs DSP with Speaker Active Matching (SAM), and provides periodic software updates to stay up to date.

Yes but needs to also sound good. I know guy who replaced a Devialet 220 with a $2000 DAC and $1500 Class D amp. Saved $10000 and has a way better sounding setup now.

maty

Re: Are we on the verge of a SS revolution???
« Reply #72 on: 12 Mar 2018, 10:00 pm »
This is where Devialet is ahead of the curve.  It takes inputs from both analog and digital sources, performs DSP with Speaker Active Matching (SAM), and provides periodic software updates to stay up to date.

[Polish Review] DEVIALET 400

https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/devialet-400-integrated-amplifier/

https://audio.com.pl/testy/stereo/wzmacniacze-stereo/2416-devialet-400

to English with Google

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pl&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Faudio.com.pl%2Ftesty%2Fstereo%2Fwzmacniacze-stereo%2F2416-devialet-400


Quote
The amplifier is also a master of low distortion, figure 2 only points to the third harmonic, also below -90 dB. The distance from the noise is 82 dB and it is probably the only parameter that does not impress so much, but you have to remember that it is about high frequency noise, which we will not hear directly from the speakers.

H3 dominance but at -90 dB and SNR 82 dB


https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/devialet-400-integrated-amplifier/

2015 -> $17,495
« Last Edit: 13 Mar 2018, 08:33 am by maty »

Freo-1

Re: Are we on the verge of a SS revolution???
« Reply #73 on: 13 Mar 2018, 12:28 am »
Yes but needs to also sound good. I know guy who replaced a Devialet 220 with a $2000 DAC and $1500 Class D amp. Saved $10000 and has a way better sounding setup now.


The vast majority of reviewers would disagree with this assessment.  Devialet makes very revealing systems, so good recordings sound even better, while poor recordings are revealed for what they are.  Personal preferences, speakers, room placement, etc all play into what folks think sound "better".    For example, my musician friends prefer the higher powered tube amps to ANY SS amps.  The term "better" is a matter of personal taste for the majority of higher end equipment.


The fact that it is an integrated solution that accepts analog and digital inputs, along with DSP, all in a lightweight package, is a welcome step in the evolution of audio reproduction.  Used prices for Devialet are much more in line with other high end gear. 








bavmike

Re: Are we on the verge of a SS revolution???
« Reply #74 on: 13 Mar 2018, 12:37 am »

The vast majority of reviewers would disagree with this assessment.  Devialet makes very revealing systems, so good recordings sound even better, while poor recordings are revealed for what they are.  Personal preferences, speakers, room placement, etc all play into what folks think sound "better".    For example, my musician friends prefer the higher powered tube amps to ANY SS amps.  The term "better" is a matter of personal taste for the majority of higher end equipment.


The fact that it is an integrated solution that accepts analog and digital inputs, along with DSP, all in a lightweight package, is a welcome step in the evolution of audio reproduction.  Used prices for Devialet are much more in line with other high end gear.

I agree the vast majority of reviewers would disagree. Devialet spends millions on advertising with them. This other company who this guy replaced the Devialet with components costing 1/4 the price spends no money on advertising :)

I also agree used prices are cheap. He lost $6000 in resale in only 6 months of ownership.

Tyson

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Re: Are we on the verge of a SS revolution???
« Reply #75 on: 13 Mar 2018, 12:44 am »

The vast majority of reviewers would disagree with this assessment.  Devialet makes very revealing systems, so good recordings sound even better, while poor recordings are revealed for what they are.  Personal preferences, speakers, room placement, etc all play into what folks think sound "better".    For example, my musician friends prefer the higher powered tube amps to ANY SS amps.  The term "better" is a matter of personal taste for the majority of higher end equipment.

The fact that it is an integrated solution that accepts analog and digital inputs, along with DSP, all in a lightweight package, is a welcome step in the evolution of audio reproduction.  Used prices for Devialet are much more in line with other high end gear. 

This is exactly what I was referring to in a previous post.  A revealing system that ends up with the majority of your recordings sounding worse (being revealed for what they are) is a very bad path to be on.  That alone explains a lot of why people churn gear so much in this hobby (the other being that many people don't treat their rooms or deal with acoustics at all, and trade out amps/dacs/preamps/speakers, trying to fix an acoustic problem with gear swaps).  Anyway, the whole idea that more revealing gear makes your recordings less satisfying (ie, "revealed for what they are") is a really bad paradigm to be on. 

What should happen is that as gear gets more revealing, you hear more, but it's still musically satisfying.  Like an old movie that's cleaned up and projected on a 4k projector - you see the flaws, but still are blown away by how awesome it looks.  That should be the same experience we have with audio.  The fact that it's not true for many in this hobby is a rather serious problem, IMO.

bavmike

Re: Are we on the verge of a SS revolution???
« Reply #76 on: 13 Mar 2018, 12:48 am »
In a revealing system that’s actually good it can be extremely revealing yet also have no listening fatigue. Even with mediocre recordings. Talk to folks who have MSB Select 2’s.

Tyson

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Re: Are we on the verge of a SS revolution???
« Reply #77 on: 13 Mar 2018, 02:13 am »
In a revealing system that’s actually good it can be extremely revealing yet also have no listening fatigue. Even with mediocre recordings. Talk to folks who have MSB Select 2’s.

That's how I feel about my Beyer T1 headphones - extremely revealing and zero listening fatigue.  Of course I drive it with a tube amp :D

bavmike

Re: Are we on the verge of a SS revolution???
« Reply #78 on: 13 Mar 2018, 02:17 am »
That's how I feel about my Beyer T1 headphones - extremely revealing and zero listening fatigue.  Of course I drive it with a tube amp :D

What’s your reference point for transparency? Without a well known reference point for transparency such as the MSB Select DAC 2 connected headphone direct, it’s hard to determine if what you’re used to is actually transparent. Hell the IPhone would sound unbelievable if all you ever heard was Sony Walkmans from the 80’s. .

Tyson

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Re: Are we on the verge of a SS revolution???
« Reply #79 on: 13 Mar 2018, 02:23 am »
What’s your reference point for transparency? Without a well known reference point for transparency such as the MSB Select DAC 2 connected headphone direct, it’s hard to determine if what you’re used to is actually transparent. Hell the IPhone would sound unbelievable if all you ever heard was Sony Walkmans from the 80’s. .

Reference point is going to the orchestra and other live chamber music and solo instrument recitals.  I listen to 90% classical, so I always judge any system vs how it sounds in a live performance from good seats.