Pickering XLZ-7500-S mk. II cartridge

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Re: Pickering XLZ-7500-S mk. II cartridge
« Reply #40 on: 23 Jul 2007, 02:09 am »
TheChairGuy,

Running the Pickering XLZ/7500 MkII based on your recomendation and the little I've hear so far impresses me.

Just completed a Hagerman Piccolo, and run this with a Cornet2 at +20db 1000 ohm.

Rest is a KAB technics, with Power Supply, Dampning and MG5 arm into a DODD Battery Pre with Gen III DOOD mono blocks.

Will update with further impressions as time goes on, but it sounds like a keeper!

TheChairGuy

Re: Pickering XLZ-7500-S mk. II cartridge
« Reply #41 on: 23 Jul 2007, 02:44 am »
Great - I am always so tentative (even tho I do) to put something out there in print for fear that someone doesn't hear it like me.  I think you really have it dialed it right at 1000 ohms...you are milking it for whatever it can give that way  :thumb:

It's definitely a keeper for me, too...I just need to dial in that loading to something higher to flesh out a bit more of the treble, that's all.

John

tonyg

Re: Pickering XLZ-7500-S mk. II cartridge
« Reply #42 on: 2 Nov 2007, 03:36 pm »
hi chairguy on you thread i went for one of these , i broke my Audio Technica aT33 ptg :(. ive owned numerous bits of hifi since i was 17 and im 44 now like you. and like you i went through the new fads CD-DVD audio and SACD; and even those last two supposedly superior formats nothing match the involvement and life like reporduction a decent LP and Turntale could produce. im now the proud owner of the best system ive ever owned.
Michell Gyro Dek and Michell Tecno arm A, Denon pra1000 Pre amp its all i could find to cope with my Denon dl304 (60db gain stage) it also has one great feature variable capaticance, but only a fixed 100ohm input resistance
a velleman KT4040 valve power amp rebuilt by a GEC valve engineer 40 WPC of class a power, but oh so much grunt.
and to cap it all a pair of rescued from a dump rogers studio 1's which were revamped in haywards heath by harbeth's
well i thought i had the best cart i could find in the AT the denon went with its systemdek II. it was musical highly detailed but mistracked sometimes especially on demanding tracks, and had that tiring quality and unrealistic ambiance.  my test track is Christine Aguileras Dirty Boy on back to basics and pink floyds dark side of the moon. both have really nasty sibilant S's. the only cart i had that tracked it and then only ok was a shure V15 mk4, well they were supposed to were'nt they.
the pickering xlz 7500 came yesterday, a bit finicky to fit but i placed a bit of cork and sliver of blutack between cart and arm mount, which acts as a nice damper. because of the brush found it hard to weigh so just used the michell dial in weight should be ok!
wow is all i can say. everything you qoute is true for 124 quid this has to be bargain of the century.
it sound much more life like than the denon or the AT plus there is no surface noise that both the coils exhibited (i presumed due to the line contact stylus) and definately more engaging than the shure v15 mr i tried out. there is more depth to everything, and i disagree with your mention of not as good as moving coils at the high end i think its better more refined, as you say not tiring to listen to even at ground shaking volume, but its all still there cymbals guitars s's traingles all perfectly at the right place in the sound stage. Bear in mind the gyro is legendary at sound staging
the test tracks were sailed through at 1.2 gms so shure goodbye your claim to be the best trackers does not match this baby.
ive just listened to katie melua piece by piece it was like she was there in the room her voice was so life like.
chair guy thanks only two sides in i cant wait till its done about 20 and nicley run in.
anyone with a decent moving coil pre stage and looking for cart that will cane those costing much more think about this one.

TheChairGuy

Re: Pickering XLZ-7500-S mk. II cartridge
« Reply #43 on: 2 Nov 2007, 05:20 pm »
Hey Tony - welcome to where music really lives, The Vinyl Circle  :thumb:

Too bad about your AT, but I'm pleased the Pickering XLZ-7500S was to your liking.  For the money, precious few low output cartridges of any type can be found...let alone one that tracks as well as it does. With the among-the-lowest 3 ohms resistance of any cartridge on the planet, more signal passes thru the Pickering than any other design...MM, MI or MC.  That and it's excellent Stereohedron tip are keys to it's excellent I think.

I am loading mine at 10 ohm (that's the fixed setting in my MC/phono stage) so this could be the reason for my generally reluctant treble production.  A move to 100, or even 1000 ohms would be more in line with correct for this cartridge.

I had it in for 2 days this week and still came away impressed with it.  There is a directness and naturalness to it that outshines all my other cartridges except for the vamped-up Grado Green.  It better the top-of-the-line Stanton CS-100 (H.O.) model, too, in that regard.  Lots of nice perky bass (as opposed to the generally heavier, but plumper, Grado bass lines), smooth midrange and is just easy to listen to for long periods.

I've owned the last Shure V15...didn't find it appealing, at all. The Pickering walks all over it for similar money (higher gain stage needed, of course).

I think #1 in my book is still the Grado Green for me (with the Plast-i-Lator, damped coils, in a vertical and horizontal damped tonearm and with an added Shibata stylus).  It is just the most natural sounding overall...tho not without it's minus', too.  But, the Pickering is second best in my stable...and may well be better if I had it loaded more correctly  :evil:

Thanks for the feedback and welcome, again  :)  John
« Last Edit: 2 Nov 2007, 06:31 pm by TheChairGuy »

k9vap

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Re: Pickering XLZ-7500-S mk. II cartridge
« Reply #44 on: 29 Nov 2007, 01:55 pm »
Hi Chairguy

Thanks for the review on this. I had been toying with the idea of getting one, but could find no reviews online, & was afraid to end up with a lemon! I ordered one today & am looking forward to how it stacks up against my DL-304!

Cheers

Vic

TheChairGuy

Re: Pickering XLZ-7500-S mk. II cartridge
« Reply #45 on: 29 Nov 2007, 02:35 pm »
Hey Vic,

Definitely let me know how it stacks up against the DL-304, please....I have a DL-304 that I bought with a whacked cantilver ready for re-tipping here....I just never got it done.  I have a DL-160, vith boron vdH from AJ himself here, and I don't find it terribly relaxing to listen to at 47K MM inputs. 

I've been hesitant to do up the DL-304 if it's a 'family sound' of Denons I might not like.

I was assured by one DL-160 afficianado that the difference in the DL-160 between 47K and 1K is amazing....much easier to listen to without the peaky treble.

btw, my Pickering (MC) input runs into a too-low setting of 10 ohms.....it robs the cartridge of what is probably a nice treble range. I have the Stanton CS-100 hi-output, top-of-the-line, too and that is nicer in the treble because it's a much better match for the 47K inputs of my MM section.

The Pickering XLZ-7500s should run into a termination something more akin to 1K to be effectively, electrically damped  :thumb:...which is often higher than most MC inputs. Too low and the highs will be muted......too high and it may sound peaky.  1K should keep the frequency response as relatively stable as the original design will allow for.

Hey - even better for me - do a DL-304 review here for us....there is precious few of those on the net...yet another reason why I've held back from having Sound-Smith or Mr. van den Hul fix it for me.  And so, it sits in my closet right now  :(

John

 

k9vap

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Re: Pickering XLZ-7500-S mk. II cartridge
« Reply #46 on: 29 Nov 2007, 04:04 pm »
Hi John

Thanks for the reply. I must confess alot of what you say in this thread goes way above my head. I really dont understand & remain confused regarding cartridge loading/impedance etc!

I have the whole family of Denons, from the 160 to the 304. The 304 is a gem, & its all I listen to nowadays. I think it could be bright in alot of systems, but there are no transistors in my chain of amplification, plus I am running Bastani Atlas speakers with a super sweet Gemini tweeter! It sounds glorious, open & fatigue free. The 103 & 301's are dull & compressed in comparison.

The only problem is its low output. I have tried loads of phono amps, including Whest & Dynavector. Nothing matches my EAR834 for output & ambience. Mind you, I have heavily modded it by rehousing the transformer in a remote box (too much hum) & replacing the caps with Hovelands. Still, at high listening levels, it is prone to cable hum & hiss with the low output from the 304. I'm hoping the Pickering will be a welcome compromise!

Will keep you posted!

Cheers

Vic

k9vap

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Re: Pickering XLZ-7500-S mk. II cartridge
« Reply #47 on: 6 Dec 2007, 04:06 pm »
Well, cartridge came. No embellishments or manual, just stuffed in a plastic film tin with some bubble wrap!

Anyway, I fitted it to my arm & started spinning some vinyl. First thing that struck me was the low output. I was hoping it would be louder than Denon 304, but its about the same.

My first LP was Diana Krall 'Girl in the Other Room'.....this is a great recording, but the voice with my 304 was always slightly sibilant. Ditto on my friends Ortofon Kontrapunkt...so you figure its the recording. Well, playing with the Pickering made my Denon sound flawed. Not only had the sibilance dissappeared, but the voice stood proud of the rest of the instruments, being recessed among them before.

I started to play other LP's....the Sade stuff is bordering on sibilance. Again, no problem with the Pickering.

I have not had the time for an extended listening session, but so far, I am impressed. There seems to be more space around all the intruments now. Alot of detail....more timbre to Stings bass. Nothing I can hold against the Pickering at the moment.....apart from the brush which caused a peculiar chatter noticeable between tracks....oh, & the other thing, less surface noise!

A great find, John....& thanks again for posting!

Cheers

Vic

TheChairGuy

Re: Pickering XLZ-7500-S mk. II cartridge
« Reply #48 on: 6 Dec 2007, 05:10 pm »
Hey Vic - yeah, plain jane wrapper, for sure (they warn in advance of this, tho).

I think your EAR834 is probably a much better compromise for loading the Pickering than my preamp.  Mine is 10 ohm at the MC input....which damps out a lot of the treble response of the Pickering.  I need to change that out one day.  Still, I find it engaging.

Member 'woodsyi' quite kindly allowed me to audition his for an extended period and it was a good match with both the Pickering and older Benz (MC) he sent, too  :)

I read somewhere the EAR is loaded at 200 ohm+...much more in line with Pickering's recommendations (range is printed on that sliver of an owners manual you got).  So, you're probably miking it for all it's worth  :thumb:

I really think Denon's output levels are much higher....it would surprise me if your Denon DL-304 is closer to 0.25 or 0.3 mv in actuality...which is why it's about as loud as the 0.34 mv Pickering XLZ-7500s.

When you do get a low output MM or MI cartridge....that has low levels of inductance and DC resistance/impedance....you get a cartridge that has most of what moving coils offer, with less sibilance (seems to be inherent in that design.  All of them are flawed in some way, btw)  Moving Coil makers try to remove this sibilance by ever-improved ways of 'damping'...but the fact is that MM and MI's can run relatively underdamped to MC's...and sound more lifelike in comparison oftentimes.

Pickering ups the ante and gives the purchaser a high-quality line stylus....so it gives up nothing in 'detail retrieval' to the good MC's out there.  It's lower internal inductance (less coil noise = additional detail retrieval, too) apes moving coils in this regard and the ultra-low DC resistance, combined with less need for damping inherent in an MM design, allows for more signal to pass. 

Hey, the surface noise issue may be no more than the greater 'damping' employed in a moving coil design - combined with lower levels of internal coil noise due to the lower levels of inductance. Despite the Pickering's excellent (for a moving magnet) 3milli-henry inductance figure...it still next to the 0.1-and-less milli-henry figures of a low output moving coil.  This is one absolutely definable area that a MM and MI cannot match...at any voltage level.

So, moving coils will almost always have lower noise as a result at any given voltage level.

There's just too much smoke and mirrors in cartridge design.  Fact is, a cartridge is a mostly electric device - when you get all those specs broadly similar, they perform similarly.  What's left is the mechanical differences built into them by it's manufacturers that make one more or less appealling than another.

It's a helluva' value at 125 quid / USD$260.00, for sure  :thumb:

Clive

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Re: Pickering XLZ-7500-S mk. II cartridge
« Reply #49 on: 22 Dec 2007, 08:45 pm »
I'm going to have get a 7500 to satisfy my curiousity.  Out of interest is there any conscenus about whether to use the brush or not?  One tweak that some have done with similar cartridges is to use a really tiny sliver of bluetack to secure the plastic stylus mount to the cartridge.  On some MM cartridges this impoves detail.  Anyone tried this?
« Last Edit: 22 Dec 2007, 10:17 pm by Clive »

dlaloum

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Re: Pickering XLZ-7500-S mk. II cartridge
« Reply #50 on: 5 Jun 2011, 01:15 am »
I apologise for waking this thread after so long...

I am interested in the Pickering XSV/XSP and XLZ cartridges....

I have an XSP3003 on the way to me, and have been thinking of picking up an XLZ.

There have been very variable reports on styli for all of these.

Some say that the XSV/XSP styli can be used in the XLZ, other say that only the XLZ styli (now unobtainium!) work properly.

I have also noted that Jico have XSV/XSP styli but not XLZ...
LPGear have a replacement Vivid Line stylus for XSV  and XLZ (are they the same?)

Has anyone tried the Jico and/or LPgear styli ? (are they one and the same?)

Thank you

David

neobop

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Re: Pickering XLZ-7500-S mk. II cartridge
« Reply #51 on: 6 Jun 2011, 07:53 pm »
Yes they're the same. LpGear is a US distributor for Jico. I use the Jico in a 980, which takes a D81 stylus. They are interchangeable with Pickering D3000 through the 5000 and I assume the 7500. The plastic holders are different style.
The bonded shibata is decent but not world class. These have short cantilevers which benefits the Jico fatboys. It seems roughly equal to to a Pickering D3001 (.2 x .7 nude), perhaps not quite as good as the Pickering. All the Jicos except the SAS seem to have fat cantilevers and bonded tips. Rags or riches with them.

dlaloum

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Re: Pickering XLZ-7500-S mk. II cartridge
« Reply #52 on: 6 Jun 2011, 11:33 pm »
Thanks Neo...

dlaloum

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Re: Pickering XLZ-7500-S mk. II cartridge
« Reply #53 on: 28 Jun 2011, 11:33 am »
Ok I bit the bullet and got a XLZ-7500-S...

And it has the original D7500 stylus, and the stylus appears to be in good nick.

Interestingly it appears to be a narrower stylus than the Shibatas / MicroRidge types.... seems more like an eliptical in width, but cut like a shibata (ish).
Very tricky under the microscope (oh for more depth of field... :roll:)

There were previous discussions about ideal loading for this beast... final concensus seems to center on 1000 ohm?

Strangely there was also discussion about ideal C loading being 1000pf - this seems very strange - but then this is quite a different cartridge

Can I get confirmation on this?

Thanks

David

p.s. the XSP3003 ended up having a conical stylus on it, and not a D3000/D4000 and I am still negotiating with the vendor - but it will probably go back...

neobop

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Re: Pickering XLZ-7500-S mk. II cartridge
« Reply #54 on: 28 Jun 2011, 12:35 pm »
Congratulations,
I think the consensus is around 100 ohms, depending on whether you're going straight in or using another gain stage or tranny. I'm going straight in to a couple of different preamps and wound up at around 270 ohms on each. While I was breaking it in I was up to 2.4K. At first all I got was midrange.

I don't think you'll need any extra capacitance whatever the load you select. It just doesn't exhibit those tendencies, so I never tried it.
neo

TheChairGuy

Re: Pickering XLZ-7500-S mk. II cartridge
« Reply #55 on: 28 Jun 2011, 04:00 pm »
David,

I never got a bead on the right loading for this as I didn't have flexibility for this in my system.

100 ohms was too low, for sure....I'd assume 1000 ohms may not be too high; but neo's results at 270 could well be the right place, too. 

I generally prefer judicious use of damping, either electrical or mechanical, so 270 ohms is what I'd try first.  100 is simply too low (for me)

Lucky me - I have both the D7500 stylus that came with the unit...and also a friend traded me for his Stanton CS-100...Stanton's top-of-the-line hi output cartridge.  Surprisingly, it's a rather awful sounding cartridge (surprising as the much less costly 881s is a fave of many to this day)...but it's saving grace is a golden hued D7500 stylus that can be used interchangeably on the XLZ-7500-s cartridge.

So I have two rare-as-hens-teeth original Pickering/Stanton styli for this great cartridge.

It's a very close race between the Grado Gold1 / Longhorn / G1+ stylus (hi output) and the Pickering XLZ-7500-s (lo output).  The Grado is more natural sounding, explosive and a rockin' good time.  The Pickering is incisive, quieter, has that air of refinement and makes my hairs stand up on end in certain passages.  If I had it loaded right, it might be that much better. 

I'd have to throw the Denon DL-S1 into the mix, too, as best I've heard.  Those are my top 3 - as 3 dramatically different cartridges as you can find, by no means similar in their operation or sound, yet each sounds fantastic.

John

dlaloum

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Re: Pickering XLZ-7500-S mk. II cartridge
« Reply #56 on: 28 Jun 2011, 04:20 pm »
Had an initial quick listen with it at 1k ohms.... sounded good but nothing to write home about...

On the other hand I was using open headphones in a noisy room... so hard to tell.

I will have a closer listen tomorrow

My phono stage is the SS JLTI - so based on both of your feedback I will listen to it at circa 300 (ish - I'll see what my closest currently made up loading plug is) and 1000

I am assuming that correct VTF is 2g (1g + 1g for the brush).
On the JVC QL-Y5F there is no anti-skating as it is calculated and set from the VTF (and/or from the damping combined with VTF? - not the foggiest idea!) - so I am not worrying about that.

(Actually to be more correct, I am keeping my eyes open for a local QL-Y66F on which I would then have adjustable anti-skating.... international shipping on turntables is a killer - I'm in no hurry)

bye for now

David

TheChairGuy

Re: Pickering XLZ-7500-S mk. II cartridge
« Reply #57 on: 28 Jun 2011, 10:44 pm »
David,

It's been awhile, but I think I settled in at 2.25 g for VTF, ultimately.

John

neobop

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Re: Pickering XLZ-7500-S mk. II cartridge
« Reply #58 on: 29 Jun 2011, 01:27 am »
Recommended VTF is .75 to 1.5g. Close to 1.5 is required for optimal tracking. That's w/o brush. I suspect you'll have to get a few hours on it to loosen it up, especially if it hasn't been played for awhile.
neo

dlaloum

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Re: Pickering XLZ-7500-S mk. II cartridge
« Reply #59 on: 29 Jun 2011, 01:36 am »
According to the original leaflet/manual that came with it,

Recommended VTF is 1g +/- 0.5g - so I guess 1.25 sounds like a reasonable starting point (+1g for brush)

And you guys are both suggesting tracking at the high end of the range (no surprise...)

Thanks

David