[Tyson]

I've had my MiniDSP 2x10 as the core of my system, as almost every other component has come and gone.  But the 2x10 remains.  Part of the reason is that it sounds great.  The other part is that they people running it do a good job actually supporting their products.  For example, check the tech note below on developing digital crossovers:

http://www.minidsp.com/applications/digital-crossovers/stereo-2-way-xover

[hdspeakerman]

Hi,
I just ordered a 2x4 and I am anxious to get started.  Can you tell me a little about your system?  How long have you been using the Mini Dsp?  Any advice? 
Howard

[Tyson]

Yes, get a USB measuring mic so you don't have to mess with a mic preamp.  USB just plugs into your laptop or computer directly.  Also, if you can measure your speakers outdoors, you'll get better measurements, which makes it easier to do all the EQ and crossover work. 

My system - 3 way speakers using the drivers and "boxes" of the GR Research V2's, but modified to have the V1 open back tweeters so they are fully Open Baffle from 30hz up to 20khz.  I use a PC server with a USB-SPDIF converter in front of my miniDSP 4x10 HD.  But trust me, you are smart to go for 2 ways - they are MUCH easier to pull off than 3 ways are. 

Also, make sure to power off your amps BEFORE you turn off the miniDSP, and conversely, always turn on the miniDSP before you power on your amps.  If your amps are on when you power on/off the miniDSP, you might get a very loud transient pop. 

Last - if you are looking for a good measurement program that's free, HOLMImpulse has a very good program on their website.

[hdspeakerman]

Thank you for the advice.  I have been trying to learn how to do passive crossovers for about 10 years and I am making some progress but I want to up my odds a bit.  I am getting old enough now that I can't wait forever.  I already have a very nice set of all Usher speakers that I built with a 10" woofer, dome mid, and beryllium tweeter.  I have heard it using a Rane 3 way and I like it very much.  If I get the 2x4 figured out I will go to one that can do 3 ways.  Starting small.  I have an OmniMic system that I am learning to use.  I have a lot of drivers that I still want to try so I hope the learning curve will be faster than the passive. 

Howard

[Tyson]

Much, much, much faster.  The cool thing about miniDSP is that it has 4 separate saved settings that you can set and then flip through them in real time.  Also, being able to do EQ "live" in real time while music is playing gives you an excellent idea of how different frequency response slopes affect the sound. 

I found in my setup that removing the passive components resulted in massively better sound, all by itself.  Allowing the amps to directly couple to the drivers gave much better clarity and dynamics. 

[Nick77]

Much, much, much faster.  The cool thing about miniDSP is that it has 4 separate saved settings that you can set and then flip through them in real time.  Also, being able to do EQ "live" in real time while music is playing gives you an excellent idea of how different frequency response slopes affect the sound. 

I found in my setup that removing the passive components resulted in massively better sound, all by itself.  Allowing the amps to directly couple to the drivers gave much better clarity and dynamics.

What were the passive components? Sonicaps and Mills?

[sts9fan]

I think the MiniDSP software is awesome. Using REW measurements to apply room correction is fun. That said I can't live with the "extra" A>D>A

[mboxler]

That said I can't live with the "extra" A>D>A

With the 4 X 10 HD's digital input, the chain would be D>A>D>A, I think. Is the DAC section of the miniDSP any good?

I've always wanted to go from my Bifrost>NAD Pre>Marchand to one of these.

Mike

[Davey]

With the 4 X 10 HD's digital input, the chain would be D>A>D>A, I think. Is the DAC section of the miniDSP any good?

I've always wanted to go from my Bifrost>NAD Pre>Marchand to one of these.

Mike

If you use the digital input the chain would be D>A.  I'm not sure where you're seeing the extra D>A conversion.

Different miniDSP units have different DAC's.  Whether they're any "good" or not is probably a subjective evaluation that only you could make. 

Dave.

[mboxler]

If you use the digital input the chain would be D>A.  I'm not sure where you're seeing the extra D>A conversion.

Different miniDSP units have different DAC's.  Whether they're any "good" or not is probably a subjective evaluation that only you could make. 

Dave.

Coffee not kicking in.  You're correct...it would be D>A.    Might be worth a try.  I could time align by Khorn bass with the top end.

[playntheblues]

Let me know how that Khorn works, I had a 4X10 but gave up on it as I felt the DACs were not quite up to par.  I would be willing to try it again, they certainly are cheap enough.  I have the Pro Khorns which is the TSCM bass bins,  Eliptrac Horn with the B&C 750 in a two way set up.  Just wondering if the Mini DSP would be quite enough??????

If you used let's say an Oppo 105D and used it with the Digital out, do you think that would help the MiniDSP DAC chips or make no difference?

[playntheblues]

Part two of the question

If you were to use the MiniDSP for either a two or three way system and used the Digital out into a DAC oh let's say the Chord.  Would that work?  Do you think it would help improve the sound etc.?  Never mind the DAC be it Chord or what ever would only have a stereo out +_)(*&^%$#@!~
Thanks Guys,

[Davey]

Some of the miniDSP units don't have a digital output (easily) available, and only one has native S/PDIF output.

I think you might be losing focus on the miniDSP objective.  Sure, if used the unit as a simple digital-in/digital-out device you could improve your sound....IF you utilized the EQ functions successfully to address speaker and/or room issues.  But any number of other digital units could provide you with that capability.

The miniDSP can apply itself to much more than simple digital EQ'ing. 

Best to poke around on the miniDSP website and familiarize yourself with the various configurations and capabilities their units have.

Dave.

[dwk]

Davey starts touching on my big problem with MiniDSP - their offerings seem to be a bit scattershot.  Each product is basically an isolated stand-alone offering, and there isn't really any migration or upgrade path.  Even worse, there are feature differences/omissions between units that look like they should be similar, so you really have to know exactly what you want.

E.g Start with the 2x4 to do some simple eq or a 2-way.  Want to move to a 3-way? Nope. Want to move from analog out to digital out? Nope. In both cases you have to buy new units.

If you have the 4x10 but want to experiment with FIR filters - too bad, you have to move to the SHARC platform. 

Did you dip your toes into the SHARC world with the OpenDRC unit, and now want to add channels? Nope, can't.

So, if there is a particular unit that fits your application, then it should be fine. But it really makes it a challenge to ease in to things, or to be confident that what you get will still be useful as your needs change/grow.

The MiniSHARC looks like a great unit that could address much of the above and the base cost is quite reasonable. However, it's a full-on DIY unit with no Boxed version available - you'll have to rig up power supplies and 2-4 I2S dacs to even begin to experiment with. It's quite an investment in time to make before you're confident in the results.

[Tyson]

I find that the ability to do source switching (both digital and analog), volume control, speaker EQ, Room EQ, active crossovers, and 24-96 D/A hirez playback all in one unit very useful indeed.  For sources, just plug in a PC (via SPDIF converter), and my Bluray player via the optical input and it's all good to go.

The room eq is particularly useful for me, since I have a room that loads bass unevenly - so I can EQ the bass on the (problem) left speaker, and use a different EQ for the speaker on the right side of the room.

The DAC's are actually pretty good.  But in order to have the unit sound optimal, you have to do what you can to level match your drivers in the analog domain.  If you are using more than 10db of EQ in the digital domain of the miniDSP, I find that does indeed lower the sound quality of the entire unit. 

IMO, the 2x4 is useless, it was a good first product, but has been entirely superseded by the 4x10.  But I know that they have a bunch of customers in the pro and car audio markets that still love the 2x4 so I can see why they keep it around.

dwk, you are spot on - if the miniSHARC were available in a format like the 4x10, that would be a KILLER app, which would directly compete with the best active unit on the market (the DEQX).  Crossing my fingers that it happens soon, cause I would be all over that!

[dwk]

I find that the ability to do source switching (both digital and analog), volume control, speaker EQ, Room EQ, active crossovers, and 24-96 D/A hirez playback all in one unit very useful indeed.  For sources, just plug in a PC (via SPDIF converter), and my Bluray player via the optical input and it's all good to go.

The room eq is particularly useful for me, since I have a room that loads bass unevenly - so I can EQ the bass on the (problem) left speaker, and use a different EQ for the speaker on the right side of the room.

The DAC's are actually pretty good.  But in order to have the unit sound optimal, you have to do what you can to level match your drivers in the analog domain.  If you are using more than 10db of EQ in the digital domain of the miniDSP, I find that does indeed lower the sound quality of the entire unit. 

Yes, the 4x10 is probably the best unit available at the moment, and is 'probably' enough for most scenarios. Being able to run an external DAC for the midrange would mitigate most concerns about the quality of the DACs (assuming that the volume control applies to the digital out - it's still not clear to me whether it does), and the remote-control aspect does mean that it may even work in a living-room environment where spouses have to be able to operate things (this is actually my potential application, so it's pretty critical). 

IMO, the 2x4 is useless, it was a good first product, but has been entirely superseded by the 4x10.  But I know that they have a bunch of customers in the pro and car audio markets that still love the 2x4 so I can see why they keep it around.

dwk, you are spot on - if the miniSHARC were available in a format like the 4x10, that would be a KILLER app, which would directly compete with the best active unit on the market (the DEQX).  Crossing my fingers that it happens soon, cause I would be all over that!

Well, the 2x4 has one huge thing going for it - it's dirt cheap. There's a much bigger market for $100 DSP boxes than for $500 DSP boxes. And, realistically, it's a fantastic unit for things like multi-sub installations in a theater (aside from the level matching annoyances), and for building/prototyping speakers where you can do a 4-way mono setup. 

I'm still considering the miniSHARC, but since my potential application is my living room system it raises the bar on expected fit/finish and ergonomics greatly. If this were for my office system or a dedicated listening room system, then I could put up with a lot more in the way of compromises.  Having to have a decently finished case and full remote support is giving me pause.
 I'd probably already have purchased the nanoDIGI if it supported volume control.

BTW - completely OT, but I recently moved out just down the way from mgalusha. I've been largely out of audio for a while, but may be a bit more active/integrated going forward.

[Tyson]

Hey, that's cool, we should all get together!  If you want I could bring down my 4x10 and you could try it out for the day.  My wife won't be happy while it's gone, but she'll live

[mboxler]

Hey, that's cool, we should all get together!  If you want I could bring down my 4x10 and you could try it out for the day.  My wife won't be happy while it's gone, but she'll live

If this happens, I'd like to tag along.  I live just north of Golden.

Thanks, Mike

[Davey]

The nanoDIGI unit DOES have a volume control.  A rather good one too. 

Some of these products are quite utilitarian still.  I kind of like that, but I sense many are looking for a more turn-key polished unit.  The 4x10Hd unit is by far the most user-friendly gadget in their stable and quite capable performance wise.

I think it's just a matter of time until they offer a product with similar capabilities as the 4x10Hd unit but built around the miniSHARC core.

Dave.

[dwk]

The nanoDIGI unit DOES have a volume control.  A rather good one too. 

Oh, really? I originally thought it did, then re-investigated before ordering. I came away thinking it did not have one.

Well, that might push me over the edge - pairing it with 2 or 3 cheapie ESS9023 or similar units for prototyping should be fine.  I found a remote-controllable 4-input component video + spdif switcher on ebay that should be able to provide input switching. Assuming I can figure out how to get a Harmony to control these things, it may actually work.

I think it's just a matter of time until they offer a product with similar capabilities as the 4x10Hd unit but built around the miniSHARC core.

Dave.

I would guess that this is in the plans, but they have a tough challenge in how to handle the I2S outputs. Based on history, I could see them doing an analog-out version, and a digital-out version. IMHO the real value proposition would be to have swappable cards and/or enable running them in parallel. This allows using the basic analog outs for prototyping/development, but then upgrading to better external converters for 'production'.

Still, a miniSHARC coupled by I2S to a BuffaloIII is a pretty attractive idea, although a fair bit of work.