Input on IDA-8 vs. Hegel H80

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 2615 times.

Armaegis

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 803
  • slumming it between headphones and pro audio
Re: Input on IDA-8 vs. Hegel H80
« Reply #20 on: 29 May 2017, 04:54 pm »
As rustydoglim has mentioned, XLR is designed for the pro audio environment where you deal with very long cable runs in very noisy environments (dozens and dozens of other cables, very high voltage power and speaker, lots of emitted EMI, etc). In these environments, the inherently higher noise rejection of XLR connections is invaluable. However, there is an added cost and complexity component to implementing it.

In a home environment, where your cable lengths and sources of noise are all orders of magnitude smaller, the "benefit" of XLR is moot.

Note that this assumes that if a piece of gear has both XLR and RCA, that each is designed to equal performance. Sometimes they are not, but that is something you have to investigate individually for each component and not something you necessarily apply to a blanket statement regarding xlr vs rca.

RafaPolit

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 110
    • www.rafaelpolit.com
Re: Input on IDA-8 vs. Hegel H80
« Reply #21 on: 29 May 2017, 06:05 pm »
Thanks for the input.

Since both the DAC-9 and the potential STA-9 or STA-6 are all that is between the sources and are maunfactured by the same house... and since I don't have the option of ´testing´, then it is PRECISELY why I am asking... not as a "generic" XLR vs RCA, but a very specific: on this case the RCA output of the DAC-9 to the RCA input of the STA-6 vs the Balanced XLR output on the DAC-9 to the XLR input of the STA-9 would there be any difference?

I understand from the replies that "no" is probably the answer, but I really think that most replies get watered down by comments such as 'investigate individually for each component'... that is EXACTLY what I am asking for, from the owner of the company that makes ALL the equipment!

But then I get answers like this one from Jason:
... it is not designed to be a lessor amp, we don't do that kind of stuff...

Oh, good then, if you don't do "that kind of stuff" then the STA-6 and the Ref20 are equally good since, because you don't do that kind of stuff, then every equipment is as equally good in your lineup?  With all due respect, you DO that kind of stuff.  It's called having different lines of equipment, where one is a bit different (or even better) but that difference or 'betterness' comes at some extra cost, so they are in different niches.  And there is nothing wrong about that!!!

The STA-6 has certain characteristics, the STA-9 probably other, the ST-10 yet another and the REF20 for sure another.  That is not bad!  Otherwise, what is the point? Have a single line of the least expensive product and be done with it.  That is obviously not the case!

So if STA-6 is just as good as the STA-9, why is there at all a STA-9 to begin with?  If STA-6 is just as good only less expensive because of a very clever design, then phasing out the STA-9 in favor of the STA-6 would have been the route.  Obviously there is something more that differs them other than "the SMPS was designed to be closely integrated with the amp module", I am asking for those differences.  Maybe they are not so big as to merit mentioning them, but are they really both THE SAME AMP, 200 bucks cheaper because of the SMPMS distance?

I fully understand that being 'less good' or 'different' at something is not necessarily bad, hence the price points of different equipment.  But to suggest that every piece of hardware on your AMP lines is 'the same' because 'you don't do that kind of stuff' is really not true!  Sorry for the harshness, but it isn't.  And, obviously, does not help users to make a decision.  Or at least, will make users always only buy the least expensive product, which is not what we should aim for either.

Best regards,
Rafa.

Armaegis

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 803
  • slumming it between headphones and pro audio
Re: Input on IDA-8 vs. Hegel H80
« Reply #22 on: 29 May 2017, 08:25 pm »
If you have the option of using XLR at no added cost to you, then use it. Simple as that.

I think you are misreading rustydoglim's statement. Don't read it as him saying the STA-6 is equally as good as the STA-9. That is not the intent. He is not saying they are making an inferior amp either. NuPrime is making the best product they can, at the specified price point and chassis size. As a manufacturer, offering a variety of products to fit a wide range of budgets means everyone gets to play.

srb

Re: Input on IDA-8 vs. Hegel H80
« Reply #23 on: 29 May 2017, 09:23 pm »
So if STA-6 is just as good as the STA-9, why is there at all a STA-9 to begin with?  If STA-6 is just as good only less expensive because of a very clever design, then phasing out the STA-9 in favor of the STA-6 would have been the route.  Obviously there is something more that differs them other than "the SMPS was designed to be closely integrated with the amp module", I am asking for those differences.  Maybe they are not so big as to merit mentioning them, but are they really both THE SAME AMP, 200 bucks cheaper because of the SMPMS distance?

Also don't forget that the STA-9 has 33% more power than the STA-6, 120W/ch vs 90W/ch.  While that may not make much of a difference for some speakers, it may for others, and is part of the reason for the extra cost and a different model.

Steve

RafaPolit

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 110
    • www.rafaelpolit.com
Re: Input on IDA-8 vs. Hegel H80
« Reply #24 on: 29 May 2017, 11:44 pm »
Thanks again!

Things have quickly spiraled down (or up?) here. So, the STA-9 + DAC-9 will take almost two months to arrive.  The local dealer has offered me the ST-10 + DAC-10 (not H!) almost at US retail price, which locally is almost unheard of!

With that I am facing 2 months wait on $2K worth of STA-9 + DAC-9, or a one week wait on $3K ST-10 +DAC-10.

Is it really a better sounding combo? Its neutrality certainly appeals more to my classical music taste, but again, will the warmth of the STA-9 be so mild that its not justified?  Its 50% more money, but is it a 'better purchase'?

Uff... too many options, too much money, too undecided.  I said yes to the pair of 10s.  Will I regret it?  Any person saying so soon would be great and I can cancel the order! :P :)  Otherwise, I need a drink to swallow down having replaced a $330 DDA-100 with a $3000 ST-10 + DAC-10.

Or tell me I did the right thing and that I will love it?  That would also work! :)

I am still in time of cancelling the order.
Best regards,
Rafa.

Armaegis

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 803
  • slumming it between headphones and pro audio
Re: Input on IDA-8 vs. Hegel H80
« Reply #25 on: 30 May 2017, 12:10 am »
No one will be able to answer those questions with absolute certainty. It's the same dilemma that we all face when we make big purchases.

However, there is a common phrase shared amoung all hobbies which is "buy once, cry once". As long as you can still afford to put food on the table and live within comfort, enjoy the ride.

Samac

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 72
Re: Input on IDA-8 vs. Hegel H80
« Reply #26 on: 30 May 2017, 12:29 am »
Rafa,

As Armaegis said, if the purchase doesn't put you in an uncomfortable financial position, sit back and look forward to the "10" combination.

I just went through a similar process in deciding on the IDA-16. I've had it now for nearly two months and I am thrilled with it. I believe you are going to be very pleased DAC-10/ST-10. Congratulations. :thumb:

Cheers,

Scott

damguz

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 30
Re: Input on IDA-8 vs. Hegel H80
« Reply #27 on: 30 May 2017, 01:53 am »

Or tell me I did the right thing and that I will love it?  That would also work! :)

I am still in time of cancelling the order.
Best regards,
Rafa.

 :green:
"You did the right thing.  And. You will love it".
 :thumb:  :thumb:

Now go and also have the drink (you can never let such a good opportunity pass you by to celebrate and calm your nerves at the same time) and start writing on your 10s' experience as soon as they arrive. 

And, by the way, thank the dealer on our behalf for saving us all 2 1/2 months until we hear a new raving review on NuPrime's 10s combo.  Man! now you just made me jealous.

Just enjoy them Rafa, the decision has already been made.

PS.  remember you owe your wife at least a year long of weekly flowers, for letting you jump,from $300 to $3,000.

RafaPolit

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 110
    • www.rafaelpolit.com
Re: Input on IDA-8 vs. Hegel H80
« Reply #28 on: 30 May 2017, 02:06 am »
Thanks fellows!

Yes, I think I am going to be very pleased.  And hopefully this will have me set for years to come.

And you are absolutely right Damguz! I owe my wife that and more! :)

I'll report back as soon as the items arrive.  I'll go purchase the cables this next days: decent balanced XLRs and the 12V trigger 3.5mm stereo cable (which I assume will suffice with the $1 ones, right? :P :) )

Thanks again, best regards,
Rafa.

rustydoglim

Re: Input on IDA-8 vs. Hegel H80
« Reply #29 on: 31 May 2017, 04:01 pm »
"Oh, good then, if you don't do "that kind of stuff" then the STA-6 and the Ref20 are equally good since, because you don't do that kind of stuff, then every equipment is as equally good in your lineup?  With all due respect, you DO that kind of stuff.  It's called having different lines of equipment, where one is a bit different (or even better) but that difference or 'betterness' comes at some extra cost, so they are in different niches.  And there is nothing wrong about that!!!"

You are taking my statement out of context, or you simply misunderstood it.
If within existing design knowhow AND parts cost, that we can make STA-6 sounding as good as Ref 20, or as powerful, we would.
And we would price it at STA-6 level. But we can't.
The context is within a given design and cost constrain, how can we make something as best as it can be.

RafaPolit

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 110
    • www.rafaelpolit.com
Re: Input on IDA-8 vs. Hegel H80
« Reply #30 on: 31 May 2017, 05:58 pm »
Jason, exactly!

Your suggestion was to install an STA-6 or 2 instead of the STA-9.  I asked if the stage quality and resolution of the STA-6 was the same, and your answer was:
"STA-6 has the same resolution as STA-9, it is not designed to be a lessor amp, we don't do that kind of stuff".

I can certainly appreciate that the STA-6 is the best it can be at its price point.  But are they really replaceable one from the other, or has the STA-9 something more over the STA-6 than power and warmth?

I am not asking which is better for the price. 

rustydoglim

Re: Input on IDA-8 vs. Hegel H80
« Reply #31 on: 2 Jun 2017, 06:08 pm »
Jason, exactly!

Your suggestion was to install an STA-6 or 2 instead of the STA-9.  I asked if the stage quality and resolution of the STA-6 was the same, and your answer was:
"STA-6 has the same resolution as STA-9, it is not designed to be a lessor amp, we don't do that kind of stuff".

I can certainly appreciate that the STA-6 is the best it can be at its price point.  But are they really replaceable one from the other, or has the STA-9 something more over the STA-6 than power and warmth?

I am not asking which is better for the price.

The STA-6 design goals were:
1) cheaper than STA-9 - therefore we have to reduce the power, and designed a power supply just to work with the amp.
2) sounding different - less warmth than STA-9.

STA-9 was designed for people who want lots of power (and yet affordable) playing loud music. Though some have found that paring STA-9 and DAC-10H is incredible.  STA-6 on the other hand, has this "Commercial" label, as we envision it as a do-it-all amp, can't-go-wrong amp for home installation. Stacks of STA-6 could be driving ceiling speakers and its sound characteristic would go well with just about any speakers.

RafaPolit

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 110
    • www.rafaelpolit.com
Re: Input on IDA-8 vs. Hegel H80
« Reply #32 on: 2 Jun 2017, 06:17 pm »
Thanks! That clears that up.

As you may have read, I bought the ST-10 and DAC-10 in the end.  I hope they will live with me for many years to come (and maybe my kids and grandkids! :P :) ).

Thanks,
Rafa.

damguz

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 30
Re: Input on IDA-8 vs. Hegel H80
« Reply #33 on: 2 Jun 2017, 10:42 pm »
So when is your 10s combo arriving?

Are you anxious?

RafaPolit

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 110
    • www.rafaelpolit.com
Re: Input on IDA-8 vs. Hegel H80
« Reply #34 on: 2 Jun 2017, 11:16 pm »
Ridiculously anxious! It appears next week. Hope it's soon, because on Thursday I we have an anniversary and my wife is not going to be keen with me 'playing alone' with the new toys! LOL!