[Eisener Bart]

Great review Sergii. 

Thank you, Eric. I liked it too. 

[gregfisk]

Sergii,

Thank you for the review, very well done. I wonder what the recessed sound stage would sound like on my speakers? I don't have anything behind them, it's all open but they are O.B.

[Jg107]

I would like to thank John Casler for the demo of the STA-9 and ST-10 today.  I was very impressed of how well they sounded in his "man cave".  After about an hour of questions and listening to music,  I left with a pair of STA-9s!  Next up: Dac-9/10,  interconnects, and power cords  (what are some of everyone's favorites?).  Thanks again John!!     

[Letitroll98]

Why did you pick the STA-9's over the ST-10?

[gregfisk]

Why did you pick the STA-9's over the ST-10?

     

Yes that, also what differences did you hear in the presentation?

[Jg107]

Why did you pick the STA-9's over the ST-10?

I have very sensitive hearing,  the ST-10 was a touch too edgy for me (I hope that's the correct terminology).  There were 2 notes from one song that made me almost cringe.  I did not experience this with the STA-9s.  For the most part it was close between the two amplifiers.  If John had a DAC-9 to demo along with the DAC-10,  I could of went home with the ST-10. 

     

Yes that, also what differences did you hear in the presentation?

I noticed a higher level of detail with the ST-10.  The STA-9 was warmer and overall more pleasing to my ears.  I believe the comparison chart is spot on when comparing these two models.   

I have been enjoying the STA-9s for over 6 hours straight so far...


       
 

[Letitroll98]

Thanks for the reply.  I love detail and a warmish sound at the same time, so I've been going back and forth.  Your answer helps a great deal.  Enjoy.

[John Casler]

I have been enjoying the STA-9s for over 6 hours straight so far...


       

And THAT is what we like to hear.  The main goal is long term enjoyment.   

Great to see you yesterday Jeff.

[gregfisk]

Thanks for the reply.  I love detail and a warmish sound at the same time, so I've been going back and forth.  Your answer helps a great deal.  Enjoy.

Letitroll98, I'm in the same exact boat I want the warmth as I think it will go better with my other components but I love micro detail as well.

Jg107, thank you for your great answer, I think you summed it up well, enjoy the amps. Now, if I could only figure out a way to listen to both in my system before buying

[jonbee]

Thanks for the reply.  I love detail and a warmish sound at the same time, so I've been going back and forth.  Your answer helps a great deal.  Enjoy.

Matchups are everything. In my system, I found the ST-10 to be ultra smooth and neutral, even a little laid back on top compared to my n-cores. I would not want any less detail or more warmth. If the STA-9 is warmer, I wouldn't even consider it for my system.
Also, cabling and power conditioning in particular have big roles here. They can affect tonality in a major way.
So- think abut which direction you want to take your system. If speakers and front end have problems, don't try to fix them by a choice of amps. In general, the more neutral is the better choice long term, imo.

[jonbee]

Thanks for the reply.  I love detail and a warmish sound at the same time, so I've been going back and forth.  Your answer helps a great deal.  Enjoy.

Just to add- of course the real matchup is with the listener and his tastes. I'm sure the STA-9 is very good, and your own satisfaction is the only touchstone.

[John Casler]

Matchups are everything. In my system, I found the ST-10 to be ultra smooth and neutral, even a little laid back on top compared to my n-cores. I would not want any less detail or more warmth. If the STA-9 is warmer, I wouldn't even consider it for my system.
Also, cabling and power conditioning in particular have big roles here. They can affect tonality in a major way.
So- think abut which direction you want to take your system. If speakers and front end have problems, don't try to fix them by a choice of amps. In general, the more neutral is the better choice long term, imo.

That is correct.  Synergy is key.

Since I use the EVOKE Eddies (and that is what Jeff was listening through) and they have adjustability of the highs and mids, I have them slightly tilted up (hot) on the tweeter.  This is because I (like many over 60) have a little roll-off in the upper frequencies.

I also like to listen at lower levels and Fletcher-Munson also attenuates the highs at my normal listening levels.  We may have listened slightly above that DB range.

So this can make the ST-10 sound slightly bright.  The ST-10 is an incredible amp and in most speakers it will be a big hit.

You must figure your SYNERGY. 

[Eric Gustafsson]

It has crossed my mind to go for a K-38, but still four STA-9 is cheaper then one K-38. At least here in Sweden.

Today I have decided to go for K-38 instead of my two STA-9. I've made a deal with my local dealer and waiting for the delivery date.

[drumnman2]

John, any progress on the bridged STA 9 comparisons you were working on ?

[John Casler]

John, any progress on the bridged STA 9 comparisons you were working on ?

Hi Drumnman2,

My problem is keeping them in the system long enough to get a good assessment.

As soon as I get them set up, someone comes in and purchases them.  Good problem to have 

But, most of the general perceptions posted by myself and others is pretty accurate.

Of course they have a smoother sound than the ST-10 and K-38, and it is oh so slightly less refined, which you would expect from the price differences.  I did notice they exhibited great VOCALS that were super clear, and not expected.

Obviously the ST-10 will have more "detail" and be a bit more aggressive than the STA-9, but when bridged the STA-9 has an ease of power and grace at the same time.

Much will be speaker, room and system matching when selecting the NuPRIME Amp. 

My additional problem when I was listening and comparing was the every time I switched from the ST-10 to the STA-9 I would get entranced with the sound, enjoying it so much, I didn't want to switch back.

I think you will be fine with whatever amp you select, as the sonic signatures of each is complete and musical.  It is just the abilities and the specific characters that might fit "your" system and preferences that should be considered.

[JackD]

John

You continue to categorize the ST-10 based on listening tests with speakers that you have admitted to tailored to your preference by adjusting them to have more energy in the upper frequency regions.  So yes the two amps that have more in common with the IDA-8 will sound more natural.  Put the speakers back to neutral and test again.  You are the only one I have ever heard call the ST-10 aggressive.  You are doing a great amp a disservice.

[John Casler]

John

You continue to categorize the ST-10 based on listening tests with speakers that you have admitted to tailored to your preference by adjusting them to have more energy in the upper frequency regions.  So yes the two amps that have more in common with the IDA-8 will sound more natural.  Put the speakers back to neutral and test again.  You are the only one I have ever heard call the ST-10 aggressive.  You are doing a great amp a disservice.

Hi Jack,

Thanks for the feedback.

I need to be clear, that to me "more aggressive", or "more laid back" are relative and not negative terms.

When I employ the term aggressive (by comparison) it means more dynamic and with greater contrasts.

I use the same settings on my speakers for all amp or gear comparisons so that will always produce the same relativity.

And to anyone who reads my comments on these amps, I find them to actually be well priced and placed as far as performance and quality of sound.  That is, the STA-9 is not quite at the same level in overall sound qualities as the ST-10, K-38, or Reference 18 and 20.

There seems to be a clear and escalating quality as you go up the line.  In most cases, one would look for "refinements" to the sounds of amps as you move up the line, and that is what occurs with NuPRIME.  (From the IDA-8 to the Reference 20)

So to reiterate, the ST-10 is an "exceptional" amp at any price, and the only amps I like better, are the K-38 and I assume the REF20 (but I haven't had opportunity to spend time with them yet)

So I might hope that would correct any impression that "aggressive" when I use it as a descriptor, is comparing primarily "dynamic abilities". When I hear a more crisp "snap" to a snare, or instant rise of a percussive sound, I describe that as more aggressive dynamics.

And a forward aggressive sound is only considered negative, if it is harsh, or overtly so, to the point it is distracting or not real sounding.

I tend to think that, in general, most amps and speakers are less real sounding because they lack the dynamics heard in real space.

In the future I will likely use "aggressive" and "responsive" to further add to being able to describe those aspects as "positive".

My comparison also means that for those looking for something "laid back", or smoother, they will likely be perfectly happy with the STA-9, which certainly does have its roots in the IDA-8.

I apologize for rambling on, but I wanted to make sure no one felt I was suggesting the ST-10 was less refined in any way.

I am currently using it in my system for a while and love it.

[JackD]

John

I understand that you use the same settings on the Evoke's for every equipment comparison, just as you did with Brian's speakers whose basic DNA they share. My point is that the tweaking of the speaker's balance upward in tonality to compensate for either personal preference or age induced hearing dececiencies changes the perspective on other equipment relative to a "neutral" baseline speaker which I suspect the designer intended.  So it changes the prespective one has on the components relative to each other and until tonight you have never explained "your definition" of the terms yet you have used them for months.  I have used the ST-10 with speakers as varied as the Nola KO, Odyssey Lorelei, Golden Ear Triton 5 and the Spatial M3 Turbo S and aggressive is a term I would have never thought of.  While when I tried the IDA-8 with all of the same speakers the only one that didn't make me think it "subdued" on the top end was the Triton 5 which like the Evoke has a ribbon tweeter.  Like you never heard the REF 20's but I find it hard to think it better.  My opinion of the ST-10 is pretty much in line with Stephen Stone's and it is amongst my first recommendation to people looking for a great amp at a fair price. We may be saying similar things just differently.

[Eisener Bart]

Hi Jack,

Thanks for the feedback.

I need to be clear, that to me "more aggressive", or "more laid back" are relative and not negative terms.

When I employ the term aggressive (by comparison) it means more dynamic and with greater contrasts.

I use the same settings on my speakers for all amp or gear comparisons so that will always produce the same relativity.

And to anyone who reads my comments on these amps, I find them to actually be well priced and placed as far as performance and quality of sound.  That is, the STA-9 is not quite at the same level in overall sound qualities as the ST-10, K-38, or Reference 18 and 20.

There seems to be a clear and escalating quality as you go up the line.  In most cases, one would look for "refinements" to the sounds of amps as you move up the line, and that is what occurs with NuPRIME.  (From the IDA-8 to the Reference 20)

So to reiterate, the ST-10 is an "exceptional" amp at any price, and the only amps I like better, are the K-38 and I assume the REF20 (but I haven't had opportunity to spend time with them yet)

So I might hope that would correct any impression that "aggressive" when I use it as a descriptor, is comparing primarily "dynamic abilities". When I hear a more crisp "snap" to a snare, or instant rise of a percussive sound, I describe that as more aggressive dynamics.

And a forward aggressive sound is only considered negative, if it is harsh, or overtly so, to the point it is distracting or not real sounding.

I tend to think that, in general, most amps and speakers are less real sounding because they lack the dynamics heard in real space.

In the future I will likely use "aggressive" and "responsive" to further add to being able to describe those aspects as "positive".

My comparison also means that for those looking for something "laid back", or smoother, they will likely be perfectly happy with the STA-9, which certainly does have its roots in the IDA-8.

I apologize for rambling on, but I wanted to make sure no one felt I was suggesting the ST-10 was less refined in any way.

I am currently using it in my system for a while and love it.

So instead of term "aggressive" better use "more detailed", neh? 

[drumnman2]

Thanks John. I have been enjoying an STA 9 for 8 months now and am just considering to get another and bridge or go to the ST 10. I am aware of the basic sound differences between  the two. I remember once you saying that the STA 9's sounded even better in bridged mode and just wondered with more time if you still felt that way. Tons of system variables I know. I'll just go ahead and order another 9 and make up my own mind which is what matters anyhow, thanks.